Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Jim Bob]

All discussions about the Pegulas, Adams, or the Sabres management in general often have me thinking of two very specific gifs. I'll just leave them here for entertainment...

 

[Chainshot]

 

[Irie]

I am legitimately shocked that some posters are upset about this extension.

I personally have been somewhat critical of Adams in many areas, but i do agreed with the patient build approach and it is hard to argue with the 180 degree change in the attitude and new positive outlook of the organization.

The team finally has an apparently stable, solid front office with a legitimate plan, and some want to ditch that to go back to uncertainty just for an attempt to rush the rebuild?

It feels like a push for "Ground Hog Day, Buffalo Sabres style".

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

He's really impressed me as far as performance goes, I must say. Solid front office and best drafting we've had in decades. Every move has had a discernible logic behind it, even if you don't agree with it. That's fresh air around here.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You keep saying that without an iota of proof that the Pegulas are enforcing a budget.

I think the only budgetary "restriction" that the Pegulas have placed on KA is "as long as the money makes sense". Building back the scouting department, implementing and building the analytics department.....all things that take money.

If there really was a budget in place......there's no way that the deal with Ottawa for Murray/#7 gets to where it did.

I know you (in particular) are very harsh as regards spending and can't fathom why the Sabres aren't spending more when they clearly have the cap space. The explanation is easy, but you don't accept it: The organization from top down has decided to let the kids learn on the job. They don't want expensive FAs coming in here and taking playing time from the kids. Playing kids naturally keeps costs down. I doubt the Pegulas are upset with being a cap floor team again........but there is literally zero proof that there's an edict from on high to be a cap floor team. It's just the way it works when any team chooses to play kids.

It’s almost like something happened in 2020-2021 outside of hockey that could explain the cut backs…!

I mean, you obviously have the same amount of 'proof' i do in terms of who sets the sabres budget.

No one here sits in with the ownership and GM about setting budget expectations.

However, the moves they did make scream that they are facing budgetary restrictions.

Going back to the Eichel trade....why not take more salary back to make the deal work when you have to get above the cap floor? Instead Buffalo went the cheapest way (cash wise) and picked up Boychuk's LTIR deal to get to the floor.

This year, why pick up Bishop if you weren't planning spending as little as possible.

As for the Murray deal, we have little to know about the particulars of that deal. If there was retention + a body going to Ottawa. Maybe we buyout Bjork (Saves 1.2M), don't sign Hino (1.7M) (2.9) and we get 30% retention on Murray, we are spending about the same as we are with those bodies.

The evidence that our budget is "spend as little as possible" is evidenced in that they are spending as little as possible.

Adams razed the front office down to a handful of people. Per the Sabres own website, the Sabres front office had a headcount of 29 before Adams was brought in. He took it down to 13. It now stands (including Analytics) 22. So, overall, even with adding a whole new department, the headcount for the front office is 30% lower.

Why would Adams choose to build a team and self limit the budget?

he was brought in the spend as little as possible. It was in the 1st press conference with Terry and Kim. Economic, Efficient, effective. And since that presser they have been spending at or below the cap floor every season. With a reduced front office.

Of course the Pegula's are setting the budget. it's their money. Kevyn is just the guy in charge of enforcing it.

I could watch Doak make this same wild argument 100 times (and have!).

He always points to reductions in spending and just ignores the pandemic. And then he always points tot he teams salary and ignores that it is built mainly through kids and that is the reason

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

He was handed a team going nowhere and a dysfunctional organization. Most of us expected the inexperienced Adams to be a bumbling Pegula yes-man, destined to fail even more spectacularly than his two predecessors.

Now most of us are more optimistic about the Sabres future than at any time in the last decade.

 

[BFLO]

Personally, I like the patience and stability this extension gives the team. There has been too much turnover since the Pegulas took over. Adams has proven enough for me at this point to say that giving him an extension beyond this season makes sense. He was likely entering the last year of a three year deal. To give him a vote of confidence in where the organization and the team is headed is appropriate at this time.

Adams took over a team and an organization in complete disarray. It was an absolute disaster.

Since he has been hired, the organization has stabilized. Our drafting has seemingly improved (note the use of the word seemingly, it'll be a couple of years before it's played out). The culture of the team has done a complete 180.

For the first time in what feels like forever, we seem to be heading in the right direction. I've got ZERO issues rewarding this.

He still has to prove himself once he goes big fish hunting in UFA, but I like what I've seen.

Tim Murray was extended Oct 2016 and most on these boards cheered. They gave him the same kind of praise you're giving Adams. Murray was fired April 2017.

I'm not saying I think Adams is going to fail, I'm just saying lets wait to get happy about his extension before we've seen if he can produce a winner.

 

[Jim Bob]

Tim Murray was extended Oct 2016 and most on these boards cheered. They gave him the same kind of praise you're giving Adams. Murray was fired April 2017.

I'm not saying I think Adams is going to fail, I'm just saying lets wait to get happy about his extension before we've seen if he can produce a winner.

Given that he was likely entering the last year of a three year deal, this was the right move.

And this does not stop them from firing Adams if the team takes a massive step backward over the next year or two.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Tim Murray was extended Oct 2016 and most on these boards cheered. They gave him the same kind of praise you're giving Adams. Murray was fired April 2017.

I'm not saying I think Adams is going to fail, I'm just saying lets wait to get happy about his extension before we've seen if he can produce a winner.

One does not transform a farcical NHL franchise into a "winner" overnight. It's a matter of putting the right pieces in place.

Like fixing a broken organization. Like staffing a competent analytics department. Like drafting to create the #1 prospect pool. Like firing a toxic coach. Like hiring a well respected, capable coach. Like attracting and retaining players who are quality individuals and want to play in Buffalo. Like trying to fill the most obvious roster needs with limited options.

Adams earned his extension. He's a winner. The team is well on its way to becoming one.

 

[BFLO]

One does not transform a farcical NHL franchise into a "winner" overnight. It's a matter of putting the right pieces in place.

Like fixing a broken organization. Like staffing a competent analytics department. Like drafting to create the #1 prospect pool. Like firing a toxic coach. Like hiring a well respected, capable coach. Like attracting and retaining players who are quality individuals and want to play in Buffalo. Like trying to fill the most obvious roster needs with limited options.

Adams earned his extension. He's a winner. The team is well on its way to becoming one.

And the same was said of Murray and Botts.

I just don't see the need to crown him a success prematurely.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

And the same was said of Murray and Botts.

I just don't see the need to crown him a success prematurely.

The bar to be more successful than Murray and Botts is set exceedingly low. I'm a bit amazed that some Sabres' fans can't concede that Adams has shown enough already to have cleared it handily.

Regardless, what would have to occur for you to declare his tenure "a success"?

 

[haseoke39]

The bar to be more successful than Murray and Botts is set exceedingly low. I'm a bit amazed that some Sabres' fans can't concede that Adams has shown enough already to have cleared it handily.

Regardless, what would have to occur for you to declare his tenure "a success"?

Uh, a playoff appearance, minimally.

 

[Djp]

I am legitimately shocked that some posters are upset about this extension.

I personally have been somewhat critical of Adams in many areas, but i do agreed with the patient build approach and it is hard to argue with the 180 degree change in the attitude and new positive outlook of the organization.

The team finally has an apparently stable, solid front office with a legitimate plan, and some want to ditch that to go back to uncertainty just for an attempt to rush the rebuild?

It feels like a push for "Ground Hog Day, Buffalo Sabres style".

Welcome to the Kevin Adams sux thread part duex

 

[Butt Ox]

Welcome to the Kevin Adams sux thread part duex

This is the queue for the first ten-game losing streak then? I just know that rat Kevyns will make us wait and wait.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

And the same was said of Murray and Botts.

I just don't see the need to crown him a success prematurely.

None of that was said about TM or Botts. The only thing they did was fire bad coaches...and then hire bad coaches. They didn't draft well, didn't do anything special with analytics, didn't create a positive image or atmosphere in the organization.

KA has done that. More specifically, he allowed the best people in the organization to do their job and assist with those accomplishments. KA did the harder things just by getting out of the way and not being an ego maniac.

 

[Irie]

Tim Murray was extended Oct 2016 and most on these boards cheered. They gave him the same kind of praise you're giving Adams. Murray was fired April 2017.

I'm not saying I think Adams is going to fail, I'm just saying lets wait to get happy about his extension before we've seen if he can produce a winner.

The extension is a positive without looking at the on-ice record because 1.) the organization seems to be moving in the right direction and 2.) this signing means that they won't be starting over with a different front office with a different plan again next year.

At some point, stability will give better results than even the greatest plans if they are constantly changed every 3 seasons.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Uh, a playoff appearance, minimally.

Fair, but barring a borderline miraculous season, that won't happen this year, especially in the deepest division in the league. I can picture the Sabres not being a serious playoff contender until 24/25.

I'll be content with 85+ points this season, a 10 point improvement over 21/22, thrilled with 90, and deliriously happy with 95+.

For now, let's manage our expectations, and focus on the trend line while we enjoy watching a fun, young team grow into a consistent winner.

 

[BFLO]

The bar to be more successful than Murray and Botts is set exceedingly low. I'm a bit amazed that some Sabres' fans can't concede that Adams has shown enough already to have cleared it handily.

Regardless, what would have to occur for you to declare his tenure "a success"?

The bare minimum to clear to be more successful than Murray or Botts is 82 points. The team had 81 points in 2015-16 under Murray and paced for 81 points in 2019-20 under Botts before covid canceled the season.

I'd say this season is a success as long as we see more progress from our young players and we finish with 85 or more points.

For his tenure to be a success we need at least a playoff appearance. 2023-24 is getting close to playoffs or bust for Adams. Certainly by 24-25.

I predict the East to have far more parity this season than last. I think MTL and PHI are in the dumpster but Buf, Ott, Det, NJ, CBJ, NYI all take a step forward and we see significant compression in the point spread from 1st-7th in each Eastern division.

None of that was said about TM or Botts. The only thing they did was fire bad coaches...and then hire bad coaches. They didn't draft well, didn't do anything special with analytics, didn't create a positive image or atmosphere in the organization.

KA has done that. More specifically, he allowed the best people in the organization to do their job and assist with those accomplishments. KA did the harder things just by getting out of the way and not being an ego maniac.

TM and Botts were both constantly praised on these boards. Murray built a consensus top 5 prospect pool(even while pissing away assets in trades). Botts had the #1 ranked prospect pool.

These boards had convinced themselves that it was Bylsma holding us back and that GMTM was a genius. Right up until GMTM was let go for refusing to fire Bylsma.

A lot of people gave Botts a pass for his early screw ups as "he was cleaning up after Murray". Such as finishing last by accident and the ROR trade.

I'll give us credit that we had almost all soured on Botts by spring 2020. The Pegula's public endorsement of Botts was considered a death knell for the org by many here.

But then they fired him 3 weeks later, and there was much rejoicing.

The extension is a positive without looking at the on-ice record because 1.) the organization seems to be moving in the right direction and 2.) this signing means that they won't be starting over with a different front office with a different plan again next year.

At some point, stability will give better results than even the greatest plans if they are constantly changed every 3 seasons.

Praising this extension for establishing stability is also premature.

Murray was fired 6 months after signing an extension (it hadn't even kicked in yet). Botts was fired 3 weeks after a very strong public endorsement from the Pegulas.

 

[debaser66]

And the same was said of Murray and Botts.

I just don't see the need to crown him a success prematurely.

Botts had made one of the worst deals in franchise history one year after he was hired, I don't recall a majority applauding him after that.
One year in his tenure, Adams made a respectable deal given the circumstances surrounding the Eichel situation, bringing actually useful players, quite the contrary what Boterill did.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

TM and Botts were both constantly praised on these boards. Murray built a consensus top 5 prospect pool(even while pissing away assets in trades). Botts had the #1 ranked prospect pool.

These boards had convinced themselves that it was Bylsma holding us back and that GMTM was a genius. Right up until GMTM was let go for refusing to fire Bylsma.

A lot of people gave Botts a pass for his early screw ups as "he was cleaning up after Murray". Such as finishing last by accident and the ROR trade.

I'll give us credit that we had almost all soured on Botts by spring 2020. The Pegula's public endorsement of Botts was considered a death knell for the org by many here.

But then they fired him 3 weeks later, and there was much rejoicing.

You're generalizing too much about the opinions on these boards. I railed against TM and got plenty of "likes" as well as push back for it. I was one of the Botts apologists for a while because I hated TM so much, and I got plenty of push back for it. There was no consensus support for either guy, and if anybody thought we had a top ranked prospect pool during those years they obviously were wrong. But again, there was no overwhelming opinion on these boards that it was that good.

 

[Chainshot]

You're generalizing too much about the opinions on these boards. I railed against TM and got plenty of "likes" as well as push back for it. I was one of the Botts apologists for a while because I hated TM so much, and I got plenty of push back for it. There was no consensus support for either guy, and if anybody thought we had a top ranked prospect pool during those years they obviously were wrong. But again, there was no overwhelming opinion on these boards that it was that good.

Yep. There were moments with each of the last few GM's that were notable and something to latch onto but people did it in different timelines. There is not a consensus.

 

[elchud]

I'm fine with re-upping him. I think he is the perfect guy to execute the post-Eichel plan. Three seasons of cap floor, three seasons of no-pressure-to-make-the-playoffs, three seasons to change the culture and get the right people in the organization, three seasons to restock the prospect pool. Sure we've hardly drafted any D, but by God just about every pick seems to be working out. And enough has been said about the goaltending.

Now, if we miss the playoffs in 24-25, I think both he and Donny G get pink slipped. 11th or 12th in the conference this season, 9th of 10th next season, those will be acceptable results. 24-25 will be the 1st season of the Dahlin mega deal and it will be inexcusable to not make the playoffs. If we don't it will be because of goaltending I reckon. Will UPL be starting that year, or does Comrie get re-signed if that thing is working out. As generally pleased as everyone is, from the fans to the team to management, EVENTUALLY Adams has to figure out goaltending, and I sure hope he isn't assuming that Levi is going to be the savior in the near future.

I expect he is working on an extension for Cozens right now. I hope he is doing the same with Asplund. Samuelsson is after that, and then Fitzy.

I absolutely think he knows what he is doing (except for the goalie stuff and you can argue that he has tried in that respect, but just has mixed results to show for it). Next off-season, I'm curious to see if he brings back Okposo & Girgensons. I expect he will. I think the 2-year deal for Olofsson makes it a near certainty that he is traded before that deal runs out. Other than that...we know the roster for next season. Savoie and Kulich probably make the roster 23/24, other than that it's going to be basically the same team.

Adams should feel blessed that he has the support of ownership. Actually he seems to have support across the board. How many GMs, other than in Arizona, won't be in the hotseat for missing the playoffs the next two seasons. Nice gig if you can get it.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Extending Adams doesn't mean that they can't ditch him later on if he doesn't progress. Just like the young players on the team have to develop, so does Adams. And if he doesn't, then the team will, and should, move on from him.

We should be exiting the "tear down and get assets" segment of the rebuild. And Adams has done that pretty damn well. But now he has to enter the building stage. He has to now show he can successfully pivot to building the team back up. It's also the toughest part of the rebuild--spending assets/cap on the wrong players can torpedo the rebuild before it ever gets off the ground. Maybe he is successful, maybe he's not, but he certainly hasn't done anything to say he shouldn't get the opportunity to find out.

I know some wish he was more aggressive in improving the team this past offseason, as opposed to another "wait-and-see" year. I'm more of the opinion that this year is about finding out what we have with our young players, and next year is the time to make a bigger splash to complement them. What Adams does next offseason is to me going to be absolutely crucial in determining whether he should be overseeing the offseason after that.

 

[BFLO]

You're generalizing too much about the opinions on these boards. I railed against TM and got plenty of "likes" as well as push back for it. I was one of the Botts apologists for a while because I hated TM so much, and I got plenty of push back for it. There was no consensus support for either guy, and if anybody thought we had a top ranked prospect pool during those years they obviously were wrong. But again, there was no overwhelming opinion on these boards that it was that good.

I dug up the Murray extension thread. Some real gems in there. A few calling for us to fire Bylsma and hire Ralph Kreuger... LOL

Tim Murray Signs Contract Extension

Per Tim Murray on WGR

forums.hfboards.com

You and Chainshot are right that at least by the time his extension came up, opinions were more split than I remember.

The largest contingent by far are clearly the Murray supporters, a lot of them still posting in this very thread, making essentially the same arguments for Adams that they made for Murray.

Most of the posters critical of Murray from back then don't even post anymore. They were fed up back then with 5-6 years of a playoff drought...

I wasn't talking about our rankings of the prospect pools, I was talking about media rankings. Murray had a consensus top 5 pool and Botts #1.

 

[Irie]

Praising this extension for establishing stability is also premature.

Murray was fired 6 months after signing an extension (it hadn't even kicked in yet). Botts was fired 3 weeks after a very strong public endorsement from the Pegulas.

Drawing parallels between the "current farm and teams future outlook" and the "farm status and organizations positions" during Murray's and Botterill's tenures, and not noting that the current situation is far far superior is being disingenuous.

I will agree that heavy praise for the current state of the team would be premature, but I don't think the general consensus of approval is based on the belief that Adams has been spectacular. The general tone (to me anyhow) is that the team is going in the right direction, and this extension is another shot of stability to the process.

I honestly don't think Adams has been exceptional as a GM, but I am excited to see where the current plan goes, and glad that the extension was given.