Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Dex]

There was a lot of talent here? When Adams was hired, they only had Dahlin, Eichel and Reinhart. Tage was a bust and St Louis ripped us off. People were indifferent for the most part about Cozens, and then it became “not Zegras”.

Post Adams hiring:

Quinn was reviled as a terrible pick because it wasn’t Rossi, and then it was worse after he didn’t have a strong showing for Canada at the WJC, despite people not knowing his use and only stat watching.

Power wasn’t in the organization, and the Sabres lucked into being able to draft him.

Our G prospects were 6K, Portillo and Johansson.

He then got Hall, who busted hard for the Sabres. And people said he got ripped off getting a 2nd for him (the Kisakov pick).

Risto became Rosen, an unknown 2nd, and Hagg (who became a 6th rounder and they drafted Gustav Karlsson). And people were upset he was kept, because he wasn’t Borgen, and I highly doubt that you’ll find a single Sabres fan today that are of the opinion of Borgen > Rosen + 2nd + Karlsson.

Reinhart became Kulich and Levi.

The Eichel saga dragged on so long that people were so up in arms that they were ready to trade him for a bernmeister return just to be done with it.

It’s completely revisionist to say there was a bunch of talent in the organization. There wasn’t.

Thanks. You saved me a lot of research and typing- - as I was going to write something similar. The CapFriendly link below shows the picks that were stockpiled just prior to Adams assuming leadership as GM on June 16, 2020

CapFriendly June 6, 2020

So, there certainly was no wealth of stockpiled picks.

Scanning the drafts of previous years, the 2019 draft still has some guys that are possibilities including Rousek, Cederqvist, Portillo, Johnson and Huglen. Johnson, Portillo, and Huglen can walk after this year. Weissbach and Brett Murray are still hanging around.

Quite frankly, anyone who claims that Tage was a future star when Adams took over is using the James Webb Telescope of hindsight as Thompson was reviled by most around here.

 

[Bendium]

How do you justify an Ullmark contract of that nature?

I just don't see it. Even the one he got was a hefty price given his body of work. To add more?

How do you justify our current goaltending situation and its effect on the team? Even if it is 1-1.5 AAV overpay, the points it buys are more than worth it. What was the better option at the time? Any trade would require assets. Signing him even on an overpay is only costing cap space you have plenty of and will not need until near the end of the contract.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Of course Ullmark chose Boston given even money. Adams had to give him more money and term. Adams didn't do it. He was looking at UPL, Levi, Portillo and thinking they would get there in time, and didn't want to commit 5-6 years to an oft injured Ulmark. Some was also probably part of the old guard purge as well.

Ulmark was the only known starter quantity in the fold. The rest were all "hope." It was a big miss. Say you sign him to 5x6. Even if UPL does well there is not a starter contraversy (what a dream) for a couple years into the contract. If Levi or Portillo push it is also at least 3 years into the contract. Then you have three good goalies with 2 years left on Ullmarks contract, and you trade one of them. Win!

Letting Ullmark walk was a loss.

I am not going to grade Kevyn Adams negatively because he didn't want to sign Linus Ullmark for a 6x6 deal. Which may have him in a completely different mind state and statistical output than playing behind the Boston Bruins.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I think what gets lost in some of this is what the expectations were for the team heading into the 21 off-season.

The 21 offseason they knew Reinhart, Eichel and Risto all wanted to move on. They knew that the team didn't have the pieces they needed to build a winner at that time. Prior to last season this team was about to lose 3 of their best players, had an underperforming 9 million dollar winger, an underperforming 6 million dollar winger, and a 1st overall Dman who had no confidence in himself. Experts were predicting them to finish dead last again, even below Arizona who basically traded anything that wasn't nailed down.

Last season we saw Dahlin, Skinner and Okposo do complete 180's, we saw Thompson become a 1C, and we saw prospects like Quinn and Peterka blossom. That may have sped things up a bit, but it was not something at all expected. Now this season we are seeing Cozens breaking out, Power, Quinn and Peterka seem to be progressing faster than many could have expected.

When Arizona tore down and knew they would be struggling for a few years, do you think keeping Kuemper would have been a good idea?

My point is, they probably saw this taking longer than it did. They probably didn't expect to need to be competitive yet. The growth we have seen has been unreal, I mean Tage alone was something almost no one saw coming.

 

[haseoke39]

It’s completely revisionist to say there was a bunch of talent in the organization. There wasn’t.

So, what are you saying, that Adams .... added all that talent? The talent that was literally here, but people didn't recognize? So because some people were wrong about those players, they count as ... an acquisition?

I mean, I'm having a really hard time figuring out what we disagree on that's worth arguing over. My whole point is whether we anoint Adams as a success yet. You want me to say that Adams inherited nothing, therefore Adams gets credit for Botterill's players, and therefore he's a success already as a GM whether the team ever improves in the standings or not?

If that's a big enough deal to you, great? I guess I'm just tired of anointing guys as a successful GM or coach before they actually achieve their mandate, because we've done that for every single hire for the last decade. Maybe have some standards.

 

[joshjull]

Silly semantics to what end?

He inherited a ten year old rebuild that had a ton of top picks and prospects already, including most of our current top players. That's not like Darcy in 2012. There's a big difference in where the goalposts are for a guy with no blue chips and small prospect volume who has to take a couple years just to liquidate and tank and stock up, versus a guy who has literally a pair of top centers (Thompson and Cozens) and a top defensive pair (dahlin and Samuelsson) in the pipeline when he's hired.

I'm not judging Adams by how well he tanks or stocks up on picks. That job was done. I'm judging him by whether the team climbs the standings.

Not semantics. You’re just wrong.

No he didn’t inherit a 10yr rebuild. The tear down, tank and botched build by Murray was over years ago. What Adams inherited was an organization terribly run in the years after that which still had some high quality assets. Its fairly bizarre you think this is an ongoing 10yr rebuild.

We all know Tage wasn’t a center option, let alone a top 6 one, when Adams took over. To assert he was is kind of nuts. You don’t get to pretend what played out was inevitable when it wasn’t. Or even Cozens being at the level he is at right now and ignoring the why of it. Our current top 6 emerging has Adam’s and Granato’s fingerprints all over it.


Being a playoff team that can sustain being at that level is the ultimate goal. We’re not there yet. But there are steps being taken. Adams and his front office started last offseason. We can acknowledge the work they've already done towards that playoff goal while also recognizing more needs to be done. We’re barely past 1.25 seasons under this management.

 

[haseoke39]

Not semantics. You’re just wrong.

No he didn’t inherit a 10yr rebuild. The tear down, tank and botched build by Murray was over years ago. What Adams inherited was an organization terribly run in the years after that which still had some high quality assets. Its fairly bizarre you think this is an ongoing 10yr rebuild.

We all know Tage wasn’t a center option, let alone a top 6 one, when Adams took over. To assert he was is kind of nuts. You don’t get to pretend what played out was inevitable when it wasn’t. Or even Cozens being at the level he is at right now and ignoring the why of it. Our current top 6 emerging has Adam’s and Granato’s fingerprints all over it.


Being a playoff team that can sustain being at that level is the ultimate goal. But there are steps along the way. Adams and his front office started last offseason. We can acknowledge the work they've already done towards that playoff goal while also recognizing more needs to be done. We barely past 1.25 seasons under this management.

I mean, I do get to pretend that Adams took what he was given and used it. Because he did. He. Did. Inherit. Those. Players. They were in the organization. They did not grow from his elbow. That's different than being given nothing and building from the ground up. If he had been given nothing, we'd have actually sold off the worthless current allstars on this team and be in the process of stockpiling picks still. If that had been his mandate, we could sit at the bottom of the standings and still say, job well done. But it isn't. His job is not to sell Tage and Dahlin and make us wait five years in the basement for the picks we acquired for them to develop.

Is your endgoal here to make me say Adams is a success already? That's all I'm getting from this. You're mad that I won't anoint a guy because you have good vibes on him at the moment. And all I'm saying is his mandate is not the same as Darcy in 2012. He's got to achieve something in the standings to be a success. So what the f***, people?

 

[joshjull]

How do you justify our current goaltending situation and its effect on the team? Even if it is 1-1.5 AAV overpay, the points it buys are more than worth it. What was the better option at the time? Any trade would require assets. Signing him even on an overpay is only costing cap space you have plenty of and will not need until near the end of the contract.

What effect has it had?

Last year and this year have been about growth/development. Who had their growth/development derailed by the play of the goalies? I can’t think of anyone.

The problem is too many posters are viewing this through the prism of a team expected to make the playoffs. Thats not how they have approached the last two seasons.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I mean, I do get to pretend that Adams took what he was given and used it. Because he did. He. Did. Inherit. Those. Players. They were in the organization. They did not grow from his elbow. That's different than being given nothing and building from the ground up. If he had been given nothing, we'd have actually sold off the worthless current allstars on this team and be in the process of stockpiling picks still. If that had been his mandate, we could sit at the bottom of the standings and still say, job well done. But it isn't. His job is not to sell Tage and Dahlin and make us wait five years in the basement for the picks we acquired for them to develop.

Is your endgoal here to make me say Adams is a success already? That's all I'm getting from this. You're mad that I won't anoint a guy because you have good vibes on him at the moment. And all I'm saying is his mandate is not the same as Darcy in 2012. He's got to achieve something in the standings to be a success. So what the f***, people?

Yeah, the team still sucks - he may not deserve much criticism yet, but he certainly doesn’t deserve any accolades yet either.

If he gets to take credit for Dahlin, Tage, abs Cozens, he has to take blame for all the bad too. Poor special teams, bad goaltending, questionable medical staff, Mitts, VO, and Asplund all not living up to expectations, other players playing their worst hockey in Buffalo, etc.

 

[Zman5778]

Yeah, the team still sucks

I don't get this take at all. We may not be GOOD yet, but we sure as hell don't "suck".

 

[TehDoak]

We all know Tage wasn’t a center option, let alone a top 6 one, when Adams took over. To assert he was is kind of nuts. You don’t get to pretend what played out was inevitable when it wasn’t. Or even Cozens being at the level he is at right now and ignoring the why of it. Our current top 6 emerging has Adam’s and Granato’s fingerprints all over it.


Being a playoff team that can sustain being at that level is the ultimate goal. We’re not there yet. But there are steps being taken. Adams and his front office started last offseason. We can acknowledge the work they've already done towards that playoff goal while also recognizing more needs to be done. We’re barely past 1.25 seasons under this management.

You don't get to judge Adams based on when he got a current AGM forward, that would be a referendum on the AGM, not on Adams.

Adams has been the GM since June of 2020. He has had 3 entire offseason's as GM, including one where he took a .500 team and crafted a roster that was dead last in the entire league.

He inherited a good prospect pool and he's added to that prospect pool. What he hasn't done is put together a winning team as of yet. It's well past time to start working towards that goal rather than hoarding picks/prospects.

 

[Diaspora]

I mean, I do get to pretend that Adams took what he was given and used it. Because he did. He. Did. Inherit. Those. Players. They were in the organization. They did not grow from his elbow. That's different than being given nothing and building from the ground up. If he had been given nothing, we'd have actually sold off the worthless current allstars on this team and be in the process of stockpiling picks still. If that had been his mandate, we could sit at the bottom of the standings and still say, job well done. But it isn't. His job is not to sell Tage and Dahlin and make us wait five years in the basement for the picks we acquired for them to develop.

Is your endgoal here to make me say Adams is a success already? That's all I'm getting from this. You're mad that I won't anoint a guy because you have good vibes on him at the moment. And all I'm saying is his mandate is not the same as Darcy in 2012. He's got to achieve something in the standings to be a success. So what the f***, people?

Adams has largely been successful so far with his actions. He is not yet "a success". And that's fine.

You can't take a bad hockey franchise that's trending worse and turn it into a consistent winner overnight. That is not a conceivable possibility. It's a f**king Disney+ mighty ducks miniseries.

Others have listed the moves that Adams has made. AFAICT, his batting average is pretty damn good. Not perfect. Only fiction is perfect. But good enough for me to be encouraged.

Success takes a five-to-seven year transition. We're in year three. I'm watching and I'm having fun. Trends are in the right direction. I'm very happy to wait and see how this plays out.

 

[Zman5778]

Adams has been the GM since June of 2020. He has had 3 entire offseason's as GM, including one where he took a .500 team and crafted a roster that was dead last in the entire league.

If you truly think that Adams had a major say in building the roster in the 2020 offseason, I really don't know what to say. The Pegulas even said that Ralphus would have a major say in building the roster while Adams would be handling "other duties" as GM. The offseason of 2020 into the 2020/2021 season was "the offseason of Ralphie". He told Kevyn who to get and Kevyn went and got them.

Thankfully, he's grown out of that stage.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I don't get this take at all. We may not be GOOD yet, but we sure as hell don't "suck".

A lot of people don't want to back down on their takes after the losing streak.

 

[Zman5778]

A lot of people don't want to back down on their takes after the losing streak.

We're going to have another period of suckitude this season, I'm sure of it.

But having a couple of sucktastic stretches doen't mean we suck. Just like having a couple of 7-1-1 stretches doesn't mean we're good/great.

 

[haseoke39]

Adams has largely been successful so far with his actions. He is not yet "a success". And that's fine.

You can't take a bad hockey franchise that's trending worse and turn it into a consistent winner overnight. That is not a conceivable possibility. It's a f**king Disney+ mighty ducks miniseries.

Others have listed the moves that Adams has made. AFAICT, his batting average is pretty damn good. Not perfect. Only fiction is perfect. But good enough for me to be encouraged.

Success takes a five-to-seven year transition. We're in year three. I'm watching and I'm having fun. Trends are in the right direction. I'm very happy to wait and see how this plays out.

I pretty much agree except for the timeline. I'd say five to seven years is too long when many of the core players are already in the organization. Not because you don't deserve time, but simply because guys age, contracts get more expensive, and guys move on. If your 1D is starting his third NHL season when you take over, you don't get seven more years to build him a merely average team. That would not be a successful rebuild, simply because guys would probably want out before you got there.

But yeah, I think he got good value for Eichel, I think his contracts for Tage and Samuelsson were way smarter than the market, I think his drafts look potentially good right now, I think the team is trending up and, frankly, I still think they make the playoffs this year.

But they haven't yet, and you can't crown a guy just for stewarding a bottom 10 team to more bottom 10 finishes with better vibes. He has to build a full team that can compete.

And straining to give him credit for the emergence of all of Botterill's players, using Botterill's assistant coach for that matter, seems like the same really desperate fiction that fans play on themselves every regime where the previous guys were all bad and left a smoldering crater but every little thing going right for the team owes to the genius of the current crop who somehow built everything including what was already here -- at least until they get fired, at which point they get revisioned into another smoldering crater. Which is the cycle that happens every two to three years on these boards. Don't fall for it. Wait for somebody to actually achieve something, and then judge that achievement.

 

[Dingo44]

Poor special teams

You mean poor PK, right? Because right now our PP is elite.

 

[TehDoak]

If you truly think that Adams had a major say in building the roster in the 2020 offseason, I really don't know what to say. The Pegulas even said that Ralphus would have a major say in building the roster while Adams would be handling "other duties" as GM. The offseason of 2020 into the 2020/2021 season was "the offseason of Ralphie". He told Kevyn who to get and Kevyn went and got them.

Thankfully, he's grown out of that stage.

'Just following orders' has never been a valid excuse. He's the GM, it was his job to take a critical eye to things being asked of him and work with the coach to build a good roster. If he can't do that...why was he hired as GM?

It's funny that the excuse for Adams first year is "Well he was just hired to be a yes man and do what Ralph wanted"

If I call him a "yes man" now I'll have triggered half the posters on here.

He's the GM, that's his role. If he doesn't get the responsibility of assembling a last place team, then why on earth should we give him credit for anything after? He's either GM or he isn't. His role hasn't changed.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Can say whatever you want but for me, Adams clock started once we moved out the old core. This is now his team and we judge him going forward based on what happens with "his team". Which was what we looked like this time last year. He was put in a very difficult situation as a new GM and I thought he has done very well so far at least getting started on the rebuild. Personally I think we should be jumping on Chychrun and rewarding Hart level play from Tage and Norris level play from Dahlin, but if Adams is insistent on keeping the same timeline (which I think has moved up) it is what it is.

Still needs to take it to the next level and make playoffs but I won't start truly getting irritated until next year if we are still sitting around waiting.

 

[Zman5778]

'Just following orders' has never been a valid excuse. He's the GM, it was his job to take a critical eye to things being asked of him and work with the coach to build a good roster. If he can't do that...why was he hired as GM?

It's funny that the excuse for Adams first year is "Well he was just hired to be a yes man and do what Ralph wanted"

If I call him a "yes man" now I'll have triggered half the posters on here.

He's the GM, that's his role. If he doesn't get the responsibility of assembling a last place team, then why on earth should we give him credit for anything after? He's either GM or he isn't. His role hasn't changed.

His role has CLEARLY evolved from year 1 to now. Clearly. Maybe his TITLE hasn't changed, but what he does in the organization certainly has.

 

[Fezzy126]

One thing that doesn't get stated enough - Adams should also get credit for sticking with Granato. Don wasn't Adams' hire and he had no previous working experience with him, following the interim phase it would have been easy for Adams to move on from Don and hire "his own guy". I've absolutely roasted previous GMs for their coaching hires, so this is definitely a checkmark in the plus column.

I know there is a loud minority that complains about the coaching both here and on social media, but Granato has been nothing short of phenomenal for the development of numerous core players. His communication skills with the media have also helped tone down a toxic media room from this decade of chaos. The team's record isn't there yet, but I don't think it's long before we turn the proverbial corner.

 

[Beerz]

How do you justify our current goaltending situation and its effect on the team? Even if it is 1-1.5 AAV overpay, the points it buys are more than worth it. What was the better option at the time? Any trade would require assets. Signing him even on an overpay is only costing cap space you have plenty of and will not need until near the end of the contract.

I think you're using benefit of hindsight because of the way he has been playing for Boston to justify your overpayment. I think the deal he actually got was 1 mill to 1.5 mill overpay as it is... and then you want to add another 1 to 1.5 mill on top of that.

That is an incredible risk given his track record both injury wise and performance wise here in Buffalo.

 

[joshjull]

I pretty much agree except for the timeline. I'd say five to seven years is too long when many of the core players are already in the organization. Not because you don't deserve time, but simply because guys age, contracts get more expensive, and guys move on. If your 1D is starting his third NHL season when you take over, you don't get seven more years to build him a merely average team. That would not be a successful rebuild, simply because guys would probably want out before you got there.

Agreed. They need to be in the playoffs well before that 5-7 year timeline.

But yeah, I think he got good value for Eichel, I think his contracts for Tage and Samuelsson were way smarter than the market, I think his drafts look potentially good right now, I think the team is trending up and, frankly, I still think they make the playoffs this year.

But they haven't yet, and you can't crown a guy just for stewarding a bottom 10 team to more bottom 10 finishes with better vibes. He has to build a full team that can compete.

No one is crowning him. They’re ackowledging positive things and being happy with the direction of the team. Everyone, even the most positive, recognize more work needs to be done. I think everyone understands success is a playoff team that can sustain that status.

And straining to give him credit for the emergence of all of Botterill's players, using Botterill's assistant coach for that matter, seems like the same really desperate fiction that fans play on themselves every regime where the previous guys were all bad and left a smoldering crater but every little thing going right for the team owes to the genius of the current crop who somehow built everything including what was already here -- at least until they get fired, at which point they get revisioned into another smoldering crater. Which is the cycle that happens every two to three years on these boards. Don't fall for it. Wait for somebody to actually achieve something, and then judge that achievement.

This is where you’ve lost the plot.

No fired GM gets credit for the growth and development of players after their gone simply because they acquired them. Thats not how any of that works.

Just to put a fine point on how nuts this thinking is….. If the big swing they took with Tage at center failed. No one in their right mind would blame Botts for that. Yet you want to credit him for it working? I’m sorry but thats not a very smart take.

Its embarassing the lengths you’re trying to go to discredit the work the the front office. Its gotten so ridiculous you’re crediting Granato to Botts. All to counter a narrative that doesn’t really exist.

 

[haseoke39]

No fired GM gets credit for the growth and development of players after their gone simply because they acquired them. Thats not how any of that works.

Well, they absolutely should. That's the whole premise of trading for futures. That's why a draft pick or a prospect is worth anything at all.

All to counter a narrative that doesn’t really exist.

Listen, I didn't do out and pick a fight with you. You came in here picking a fight with me simply because I said it's too early to judge a guy's success. So if that's not your narrative, leave me alone.

 

[joshjull]

Well, they absolutely should. That's the whole premise of trading for futures. That's why a draft pick or a prospect is worth anything at all.

No they shouldn’t. Acquiring talent and doing something with it are two different things. A GM has to be good at both along with others things to build a successful team.