Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Doug Prishpreed]

What dozens of teams have built patiently through the draft, drafted well, and failed? Most teams are not patient enough for the strategy and make front office changes after a few years and then blow up their rebuild. The average Tenure of NHL GMs is like 5 years -new GM comes in and is pressured to win now, trades all the stockpiled talent to make moderate improvements and turns a loser into a bubble team that never truly competes. Those are the dozens that fail.

The devils stockpiled talent before their cup wins. The Nordiques stockpiled talent before moving to Colorado and winning their cups. The Lightning stockpiled talent before winning their cups. The Blackhawks stockpiled talent before their cups. The Kings stockpiled talent before their cups.

The larger market teams can trade for expiring UFAs with a strong chance of re-signing them due to their market location, or just flat out attract top tiered UFAs. Buffalo is at a disadvantage in that regard, so the process is a bit slower and the model has to be different.

Those winning teams didn't just draft and wait. They made improvements and supplemented their core draftees to address their needs as they arose, which Adams isn't doing enough of. Their GMs were all experienced too, and Adams is learning on the job.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Nobody is happy with this shit-show start to the season, but let's have some perspective.

The youngest team in the league is struggling because many of its top players - Tage, Tuch, Cozens, Power are the obvious culprits - aren't playing to their potential.

Calling for the GM to be fired because the team is slumping early in the season is yielding to emotion, not logic.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Nobody is happy with this shit-show start to the season, but let's have some perspective.

The youngest team in the league is struggling because many of its top players - Tage, Tuch, Cozens, Power are the obvious culprits - aren't playing to their potential.

Calling for the GM to be fired because the team is slumping early in the season is yielding to emotion, not logic.

There's really only one person saying anyone should be fired; hardly worth addressing like it's an actual thing.

 

[toddkaz]

I

There's really only one person saying anyone should be fired; hardly worth addressing like it's an actual thing.

I never said anyone should be fired. People need to read better.

I said if they miss the playoffs which is 6 months give or take. I'll tell you what. Lets see what people are saying if they miss the playoffs. I can imagine it will be much worse than my take.

Its silly to ignore the pressure thats going to build if they continue to lose. Sorry I am addressing it too early for some. We can wait 20 games and if we are still losing then you can all join in.

 

[JLewyB]

Nobody is happy with this shit-show start to the season, but let's have some perspective.

The youngest team in the league is struggling because many of its top players - Tage, Tuch, Cozens, Power are the obvious culprits - aren't playing to their potential.

Calling for the GM to be fired because the team is slumping early in the season is yielding to emotion, not logic.

The slump sucks thats for sure. Its Granato’s failure to get this team ready.

The issue is that KAs failures will show at some point. If one of Dahlin, Sammy or Power gets injured for a few weeks, we don’t have the depth to survive it.

 

[Irie]

Those winning teams didn't just draft and wait. They made improvements and supplemented their core draftees to address their needs as they arose, which Adams isn't doing enough of. Their GMs were all experienced too, and Adams is learning on the job.

If you look at Colorado, Sakic didn't sell the farm until they were close. Most of the roster turned over from his third year to his 9th when they won the cup.

Sakic made relatively cheap acquisitions to fill holes and insulate the young guys as they grew and developed. He was extremely patient and drafted well, and made a few mid-sized trades for some good complimentary pieces, but he waited till his young core was ready to carry the team in the playoffs. The Sabres core is young and not ready, so for the Sabres to make a lot of early moves now would be a very different rebuild model.

Look at the Kings. Lombardi was D2 college player who was more of a player agent/business GM than a hockey mind. His philosophy was build a culture. He had smart hockey people around him that did the evaluating for him.

Adams is building a culture and the team is improving in certain areas, but going from a complete run and gun team to a responsible defensive team is going to take some adjustment and there will be growing pains.

Honestly, I am not sure why i am defending Adams here, as I never particularly like the hire, but for this team now, stability and culture are the most important thing as the young guys learn to be stars in this league, and I feel strongly that another front office turnover is going to set the team back another 3+ years.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

2021-2022 Season they started 4-1-1, scoring at a 3.00 pace with a 1.87 GAA ended with: 32-39-11 2.79 GF, GAA: 3.50
Last season they started 4-2. Scoring at 3.83 pace, with a GAA of 2.67 ended with: 42-33-7 3.57 GF, GAA: 3.62

This season they started 2-4 scoring at a 2.17 pace with a GAA of 3.00.

What does this have to do with anything...Absolutely nothing. Each season is it's own monster.

Got it, if your best goal scorers stop scoring it has nothing to do with your record. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

If you look at Colorado, Sakic didn't sell the farm until they were close. Most of the roster turned over from his third year to his 9th when they won the cup.

Sakic made relatively cheap acquisitions to fill holes and insulate the young guys as they grew and developed. He was extremely patient and drafted well, and made a few mid-sized trades for some good complimentary pieces, but he waited till his young core was ready to carry the team in the playoffs. The Sabres core is young and not ready, so for the Sabres to make a lot of early moves now would be a very different rebuild model.

Look at the Kings. Lombardi was D2 college player who was more of a player agent/business GM than a hockey mind. His philosophy was build a culture. He had smart hockey people around him that did the evaluating for him.

Adams is building a culture and the team is improving in certain areas, but going from a complete run and gun team to a responsible defensive team is going to take some adjustment and there will be growing pains.

Honestly, I am not sure why i am defending Adams here, as I never particularly like the hire, but for this team now, stability and culture are the most important thing as the young guys learn to be stars in this league, and I feel strongly that another front office turnover is going to set the team back another 3+ years.

I'm not advocating for firing him -- just don't feel he's following a path that has worked in the past. It's the path of a Winnepeg-type team who doesn't have a lot of resources. We have the resources so it's puzzling.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Sakic method. He was always shaking things up, looking for ways to improve outside of draft pick development.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I think it's quite obvious that Ottawa has definitely passed us due to GMKA's inactivity this off-season. If he'd only have sold his futures he could have put Buffalo in that 10 - 15 draft slot hell, then again he wouldn't have any picks

 

[toddkaz]

Make the playoffs keep your job. Miss the playoffs fired.

Isn't that the standard formula?

If for the ones that want to keep Adams if we misses the playoffs what do you think happens the next year? Same formula or just keep on losing?

I am not saying they will miss the playoffs or Adams deserves to be fired right now but don't people want accountability?

To me its simple. Just win baby! But there still has to be some sort of accountability at the end of the year good or bad, positive or negative.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Make the playoffs keep your job. Miss the playoffs fired.

Isn't that the standard formula?

If for the ones that want to keep Adams if we misses the playoffs what do you think happens the next year? Same formula or just keep on losing?

I am not saying they will miss the playoffs or Adams deserves to be fired right now but don't people want accountability?

To me it’s simple. Just win baby! But there still has to be some sort of accountability at the end of the year good or bad, positive or negative.

Accountability for what? Icing the youngest team in the NHL? Taking over a team that needed another multi-year rebuild? Stacking its prospect pool? Having the franchise’s best season in a decade?

If the playoffs aren’t the end goal why should they be the end measure of success?

 

[michaelsaas]

I

I never said anyone should be fired. People need to read better.

I said if they miss the playoffs which is 6 months give or take. I'll tell you what. Lets see what people are saying if they miss the playoffs. I can imagine it will be much worse than my take.

Its silly to ignore the pressure thats going to build if they continue to lose. Sorry I am addressing it too early for some. We can wait 20 games and if we are still losing then you can all join in.

there is this - Speculation: - What do you think should happen if the Sabres miss the playoffs

 

[toddkaz]

Accountability for what? Icing the youngest team in the NHL? Taking over a team that needed another multi-year rebuild? Stacking its prospect pool? Having the franchise’s best season in a decade?

If the playoffs aren’t the end goal why should they be the end measure of success?

Ok so you will give Adams 5 years to make the playoffs? 6 years? 7 years?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Ok so you will give Adams 5 years to make the playoffs? 6 years? 7 years?

Never said that. Just said I’m not judging him by the playoffs. I’ll judge him, like you should judge everyone, on year to year progression. I think that progression should end with playoffs this year. But I’d like to think I can analyze play and development and don’t need to just rely on ‘did they make the playoffs’. If they make the playoffs and he trades Savoie for third line penalty killers, Benson for depth dmen, and Levi for a Marc Andre-fluery I don’t really effin care if they made the playoffs. Fire his ass immediately. And if they finish with 97 points, levi finishes top 3 in Calder voting, Ryan johnson is playing 19 mins a night on power’s pairing, and they miss the playoffs, I’m not calling for his head.

Why?

Playoffs is the +/- of front offices. Playoffs is a result, a symptom of what you hope the front office is building. Not the end goal.

The only time frame I’m holding Adams to is Dahlin’s prime. If the progression doesn’t lead to cup contention by the time Dahlin is 26/27 then you gotta shit or get off the pot, we don’t have a lifetime here. But beyond that? It’s the youngest team in the NHL and I can’t find any kids that I’d get rid of to make a run at the cup right now.

So yes, I have to accept that I may be dealing with another missed playoff run. I’m waiting for my second marshmallow. For 1 more season at least. But I honestly don’t believe I’ll be waiting that long. I think by the time the spring rolls in this team will be fighting for that 3rd divisional spot and a long way from 9th.

 

[jd1970]

In over his head.

 

[Ace]

In over his head.

You assume competing is the point. You don’t punt on multiple off-seasons and intend to have things work out. You do nothing to wait as long as you can to do something.

Sure, hed like to win. But not more than to do nothing and whatever happens happens. That’s what he does. That’s what it is.

 

[Djp]

Never said that. Just said I’m not judging him by the playoffs. I’ll judge him, like you should judge everyone, on year to year progression. I think that progression should end with playoffs this year. But I’d like to think I can analyze play and development and don’t need to just rely on ‘did they make the playoffs’. If they make the playoffs and he trades Savoie for third line penalty killers, Benson for depth dmen, and Levi for a Marc Andre-fluery I don’t really effin care if they made the playoffs. Fire his ass immediately. And if they finish with 97 points, levi finishes top 3 in Calder voting, Ryan johnson is playing 19 mins a night on power’s pairing, and they miss the playoffs, I’m not calling for his head.

Why?

Playoffs is the +/- of front offices. Playoffs is a result, a symptom of what you hope the front office is building. Not the end goal.

The only time frame I’m holding Adams to is Dahlin’s prime. If the progression doesn’t lead to cup contention by the time Dahlin is 26/27 then you gotta shit or get off the pot, we don’t have a lifetime here. But beyond that? It’s the youngest team in the NHL and I can’t find any kids that I’d get rid of to make a run at the cup right now.

So yes, I have to accept that I may be dealing with another missed playoff run. I’m waiting for my second marshmallow. For 1 more season at least. But I honestly don’t believe I’ll be waiting that long. I think by the time the spring rolls in this team will be fighting for that 3rd divisional spot and a long way from 9th.

I’m not expecting playoffs this year. See what happens. You can have key player injuries occur.

Those winning teams didn't just draft and wait. They made improvements and supplemented their core draftees to address their needs as they arose, which Adams isn't doing enough of. Their GMs were all experienced too, and Adams is learning on the job.

such an approach is very hit and miss. chicsgo had drafted some young D ehrn they started the rebuild thrn picked Toews and kane and thrn added some players. The kings spend 6+ years drafting top 15 then thry made some trades.

if buffalo had loaded up on prospects in the 2009-2013 drafts and thrn drafted Reinhart snd Eichel things might have bern different. That's what TM tried to do. Tampa and Colorado didn’t instantly win the cup. They went over 7 yrs after their #1 pick Before they won the cup.

buffalo, OTOH decided to go through a second rebuild in trading Eichel, Reinhart, and Risto. Now they need this and the prospects drafted in prior years to develop.

in 24/25 buffalo could have Levi, Johnson, Peterka, Quinn, Savoie, Benson, Kulich all on ELCs. This year Power and Krebs are on ELCs would be graduating from ELC

then you have to factor in cap space the next few years where buffalo could have little wiggle room.

 

[BFLO]

If you look at Colorado, Sakic didn't sell the farm until they were close. Most of the roster turned over from his third year to his 9th when they won the cup.

Sakic made relatively cheap acquisitions to fill holes and insulate the young guys as they grew and developed. He was extremely patient and drafted well, and made a few mid-sized trades for some good complimentary pieces, but he waited till his young core was ready to carry the team in the playoffs. The Sabres core is young and not ready, so for the Sabres to make a lot of early moves now would be a very different rebuild model.

Look at the Kings. Lombardi was D2 college player who was more of a player agent/business GM than a hockey mind. His philosophy was build a culture. He had smart hockey people around him that did the evaluating for him.

Adams is building a culture and the team is improving in certain areas, but going from a complete run and gun team to a responsible defensive team is going to take some adjustment and there will be growing pains.

Honestly, I am not sure why i am defending Adams here, as I never particularly like the hire, but for this team now, stability and culture are the most important thing as the young guys learn to be stars in this league, and I feel strongly that another front office turnover is going to set the team back another 3+ years.

In 4 years, what culture has he built?

It's certainly not a culture of being prepared for the season to start, or for home games, or playing a winning brand of hockey.

 

[Irie]

In 4 years, what culture has he built?

It's certainly not a culture of being prepared for the season to start, or for home games, or playing a winning brand of hockey.

It's a culture where players aren't demanding trades to leave the team, and it is a culture where everyone wants to be here and is willing to sign long term.

Not too long ago no one was signing extensions and all UFAs had a foot out the door in their contract years.

Now, the rfa's are signing team friendly deals when compared to what many other teams are having to pony up to keep their players, and guys want to stay.

It's a huge improvement.

Honestly, all the things you are complaining about is on the coaching staff, not the GM.

So many posters are in denial on the coaching failures of this team and want to pin it all on Adams. You can blame Adams for keeping Granato, but then you should be screaming for a coaching replacement not a GM replacement. Don't blame a GM for the failed prep or game plan.

 

[sabremike]

It's a culture where players aren't demanding trades to leave the team, and it is a culture where everyone wants to be here and is willing to sign long term.

Not too long ago no one was signing extensions and all UFAs had a foot out the door in their contract years.

Now, the rfa's are signing team friendly deals when compared to what many other teams are having to pony up to keep their players, and guys want to stay.

It's a huge improvement.

Honestly, all the things you are complaining about is on the coaching staff, not the GM.

So many posters are in denial on the coaching failures of this team and want to pin it all on Adams. You can blame Adams for keeping Granato, but then you should be screaming for a coaching replacement not a GM replacement. Don't blame a GM for the failed prep or game plan.

If he lacks the guts to tell Donnie to get rid of his incompetent buddies who are his assistants or he'll be sacked that's on him.

 

[Irie]

If he lacks the guts to tell Donnie to get rid of his incompetent buddies who are his assistants or he'll be sacked that's on him.

The better coaches in the league have complete autonomy around their staff and game plan.

I've been pushing for assistant upgrades for a while. It was #1 on my offseason wishlist.

But if Adams is shaping Granato's coaching staff there is a serious problem.

Personally I have zero desire to see how good Adams is at choosing assistant coaches. Adams is a good GM because he listens to the people on his staff that are more knowledgeable than him.

This is something Granato has to do on his own, and if he can't then maybe he should be coaching in Rochester until he can.

As for being up to play when the puck drops, personally I put a lot of that on the team captain.

The GM sets the personnel. The coach sets the game plan, and the captain fires up the players and gets them going.

Do you think Glen Slather was the driving motivational force in the oilers locker room before games to motivate the players, or do you think maybe it was Messier?

 

[sabremike]

The better coaches in the league have complete autonomy around their staff and game plan.

I've been pushing for assistant upgrades for a while. It was #1 on my offseason wishlist.

But if Adams is shaping Granato's coaching staff there is a serious problem.

Personally I have zero desire to see how good Adams is at choosing assistant coaches. Adams is a good GM because he listens to the people on his staff that are more knowledgeable than him.

This is something Granato has to do on his own, and if he can't then maybe he should be coaching in Rochester until he can.

As for being up to play when the puck drops, personally I put a lot of that on the team captain.

The GM sets the personnel. The coach sets the game plan, and the captain fires up the players and gets them going.

Do you think Glen Slather was the driving motivational force in the oilers locker room before games to motivate the players, or do you think maybe it was Messier?

If you can't put together a team that makes the playoffs at least once in 4 years and is headed in the wrong direction you didn't do a good job (particularly if you hired the coach who failed). I'm sick and tired of failure and neverending excuses. Other organizations are capable of making the playoffs in less than 4 years let alone 13, why aren't we?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I feel like Granato is a good teacher and the players love him. But he is about the opposite of intense and then again, if your players love you so much...

Much of the roster is so young and inexperienced, whatever they need to learn will slow them down a bit on the ice. They aren't playing by instinct and it makes them look apathetic or just slow. I'm not sure what has to happen first or more, but they have to hit the ice mentality ready to play top speed. Granato hasn't had them ready like that all season. It's either the learning curve or lack of intensity...or both.

There's also lots of stupid plays by guys that have been around enough. It keeps happening. Are there not consequences under the staff?

 

[Irie]

If you can't put together a team that makes the playoffs at least once in 4 years and is headed in the wrong direction you didn't do a good job (particularly if you hired the coach who failed). I'm sick and tired of failure and neverending excuses. Other organizations are capable of making the playoffs in less than 4 years let alone 13, why aren't we?

Emotions are high after a loss, and it is understandable frustrating, but the current plan has been in motion for three season, not four. Adams' first season the team decisions were absolutely influenced by others and not Adams and Granato.

So here we are, three years in, and the team is the youngest in the league and most of the up and coming players are in their early 20s. That is the reality. So either you except the reality and be patient, or you demand playoffs now, which requires a roster overhaul with older, more mature players.

What would that look like?

You fire Adams, and the new GM is given a playoff ultimatum. The way this current team makes the playoffs is by moving out valuable assets for guys that can perform now. Those trades likely involve moving Cozens, Power, Levi, Peterka and a few of the high end prospects on the farm. In return the team gets older vets coming up on UFA status or that are starting to decline and signed long term, but they are more competitive and they push this team into the playoffs. The team can't get out of the second round because there is not enough cap or depth to build the team right, but they will get you to the postseason 2 or 3 years before the UFAs move on to bigger cities and the older guys become boat anchors that prevent the team from competing while their sunset contracts sink the cap for half a decade.

That is not a great long term plan.

When your team has 9 guys that are 23 or younger and 16 guys that are 25 or younger playing significant roles on your team, there are going to be lot of wild, inconsistent efforts. Ups and downs. Good games and Bad games. The good news is that they will get better. The bad news is that it is going to take time.

 

[sabremike]

Emotions are high after a loss, and it is understandable frustrating, but the current plan has been in motion for three season, not four. Adams' first season the team decisions were absolutely influenced by others and not Adams and Granato.

So here we are, three years in, and the team is the youngest in the league and most of the up and coming players are in their early 20s. That is the reality. So either you except the reality and be patient, or you demand playoffs now, which requires a roster overhaul with older, more mature players.

What would that look like?

You fire Adams, and the new GM is given a playoff ultimatum. The way this current team makes the playoffs is by moving out valuable assets for guys that can perform now. Those trades likely involve moving Cozens, Power, Levi, Peterka and a few of the high end prospects on the farm. In return the team gets older vets coming up on UFA status or that are starting to decline and signed long term, but they are more competitive and they push this team into the playoffs. The team can't get out of the second round because there is not enough cap or depth to build the team right, but they will get you to the postseason 2 or 3 years before the UFAs move on to bigger cities and the older guys become boat anchors that prevent the team from competing while their sunset contracts sink the cap for half a decade.

That is not a great long term plan.

When your team has 9 guys that are 23 or younger and 16 guys that are 25 or younger playing significant roles on your team, there are going to be lot of wild, inconsistent efforts. Ups and downs. Good games and Bad games. The good news is that they will get better. The bad news is that it is going to take time.

Hiring a proven coaching staff that actually knows what the heck they are doing would also do the trick. One of the things that keeps getting brought up are "vibes" but if the nosedive continues (we have a poor record that advanced stats say greatly flatters us) and the team is playing out the string by mid February and next year is more development those vibes are going to die a quick and brutal death.