Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
Kane would never come to Buffalo in the first place, so the topic is a complete waste of air.
Kevyn Adams GM thread
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KeyserSoze81
Registered User
I think you just need a different perspective. Sure, the playoffs are nice, but we would miss out on the best day of the year: the draft lottery. The untapped promise of a magic bean is far better than what it grows into. I really enjoyed being able to watch them draft Owen Power. It was a lot more enjoyable than watching Owen Power shy away from contact at every turn and repeatedly lose his man in the D zone.
joshjull
Registered User
What a meaningless complaint. We talk about prospects all year round on here.
The core issue, re: GMs, is that Terry needs someone experienced that he can trust. With Adams he went the opposite direction is finding someone he trusts but with no experience.
I'd be much more comfortable with Adams in a team president role who works directly with Terry and has an experienced GM underneath him he does the roster planning/building. Adams can still have a say, sure, but someone who has experience building an actual winning team rather than a top prospect team.
I'd be much more comfortable with Adams in a team president role who works directly with Terry and has an experienced GM underneath him he does the roster planning/building. Adams can still have a say, sure, but someone who has experience building an actual winning team rather than a top prospect team.
Yeah, I know. I want to talk about winning and making the playoffs this year. It feels like people are giving up. I've been to two home games, and there feels like no energy for this team. This would be year 13 of no playoffs. We need a serious winning streak.
I can't even believe we are talking about the GM/coach being fired six games in. I think at the 15-game mark, if we are, say, 5-8-2 or something, I will feel really sick.
In my rational mind I always knew this was a 90-point ish team with a slightly below 50% chance of making the playoffs. I still believe that.
Mattilaus
Registered User
Bendium
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2019
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IMO.... KA has done an "adequate" job. Continuous progress since he took over, but he's up against the wall now, and hasn't shown he knows how to do the next step.
Four things on my list going into the offseason.
1. Trade/Wave Joker, Olofsson, and Bryson. - ALL ARE STILL F'in HERE! WTFWTFWTFWTF!
2. Upgrade the worst goalie situation in the NHL. - He kicked the can down the road, again.
3. Rebuild the bottom 6. - 4th line needs to be a defensive FO, ice flipping, possession line. 3rd line needs to compliment the top two. You already had 7 top 6 forwards, so one would play down to the 3rd line. I consider Greenway to be a solid add to the middle six, and you had Krebs under contract for a bottom 6 role. That left 3 spots open! Opportunity to improve! They resigned Jost, Okposo, and Girgs! FAIL!!!!!!!!!! Jost gives a great effort, but brings nothing else. Rousek would have been at least as productive. Girgs I am fine with, but only if you signed a true FO winning, penalty killing, posession center. We don't have one on the team! Okposo... Big opportunity to remake the bottom got missed this offseason.
4. Rebuild the defense 4-7 spots. - Johnson was an excellent signing. Keep his minutes down and he will be able to move up the lineup for a few games to handle injuries. Cliffton was a good signing as a bottom pairing guy, but so far I do not see any top 4 potential in him. Typical riffraff in the 7 role is fine. But.......JOKER SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS TEAM! KA failed to get a true top 4 dman, and so we are still trying to get by with Joker.
So...KA...."adequate" to this point, but IMO just failed the roster building part of this offseason.
Four things on my list going into the offseason.
1. Trade/Wave Joker, Olofsson, and Bryson. - ALL ARE STILL F'in HERE! WTFWTFWTFWTF!
2. Upgrade the worst goalie situation in the NHL. - He kicked the can down the road, again.
3. Rebuild the bottom 6. - 4th line needs to be a defensive FO, ice flipping, possession line. 3rd line needs to compliment the top two. You already had 7 top 6 forwards, so one would play down to the 3rd line. I consider Greenway to be a solid add to the middle six, and you had Krebs under contract for a bottom 6 role. That left 3 spots open! Opportunity to improve! They resigned Jost, Okposo, and Girgs! FAIL!!!!!!!!!! Jost gives a great effort, but brings nothing else. Rousek would have been at least as productive. Girgs I am fine with, but only if you signed a true FO winning, penalty killing, posession center. We don't have one on the team! Okposo... Big opportunity to remake the bottom got missed this offseason.
4. Rebuild the defense 4-7 spots. - Johnson was an excellent signing. Keep his minutes down and he will be able to move up the lineup for a few games to handle injuries. Cliffton was a good signing as a bottom pairing guy, but so far I do not see any top 4 potential in him. Typical riffraff in the 7 role is fine. But.......JOKER SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS TEAM! KA failed to get a true top 4 dman, and so we are still trying to get by with Joker.
So...KA...."adequate" to this point, but IMO just failed the roster building part of this offseason.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
Bendium
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2019
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Not #1 like number one priority. Just #1 in that it was the first thing I listed in a non prioritized list of 4 things.
Also, Joker and Bryson ARE a problem, in that they are not good enough. They are not making the team for most playoff teams. As long as we keep players like that around, we will struggle to make the playoffs.
Push Dr Tracksuit
Gerstmann 3:16
- Jun 9, 2012
- 13,537
- 3,723
Just perspective
Sabres last season had 296 goals for last season.
Tuch and Thompson had 83 of them.
Sabres have 13 goals this season. Tuch and Thompson have 1.
Sabres last season had 296 goals for last season.
Tuch and Thompson had 83 of them.
Sabres have 13 goals this season. Tuch and Thompson have 1.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
More perspective: everyone here knew it wasn't sustainable and said so. The only person who seems to assume they'll all match their career years every season is Adams.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
I didn't think he was a problem at the end of last year either. He's not the one keeping the team down, but that's largely because he doesn't have a very big role to begin with. Clifton is getting a lot of his minutes.
toddkaz
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2022
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No, hiring bad personnel is what extends a rebuild.
Its interesting the two examples you used to defend your position have won zero stanley cups.
Its not a coincidence that bad hires is what caused this massive draught or wait, what GM or coach do wish was still here?
OkimLom
Registered User
- May 3, 2010
- 15,806
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2021-2022 Season they started 4-1-1, scoring at a 3.00 pace with a 1.87 GAA ended with: 32-39-11 2.79 GF, GAA: 3.50
Last season they started 4-2. Scoring at 3.83 pace, with a GAA of 2.67 ended with: 42-33-7 3.57 GF, GAA: 3.62
This season they started 2-4 scoring at a 2.17 pace with a GAA of 3.00.
What does this have to do with anything...Absolutely nothing. Each season is it's own monster.
toddkaz
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2022
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Its not my job to come up with answers. Thats like me saying...So you think Adams and Granato is the absolute best at their job thats available? If so we are in trouble. Granato is not a very good coach and Adams is not a very good GM..
Last year we were
Terrible on faceoffs
Didn't have a goalie
Missing out on top 4 defender.
This year we are
Terrible on faceoffs
Don't have a goalie
Missing a top 4 defender.
Not sure why people think Adams is the best GM available when he had one job to do and didn't do it.
CaliSabresfan24
Registered User
-Joki has been fine so far and I have been VERY critical of his game before. I'd argue Power has been the worst player on that pairing.
-Olofsson is a waste of space in the line up but no one is going to trade for him due to his contract and they don't want to waive him for nothing. Sabres are hoping he can boost his value but Donny needs to put him on PP#1 and let VO do what VO does best, sit at the top of the circle and fire some one T's
-Bryson is just meh to me... Guy is overpaid and I felt Stillman earned the #7 spot over him but again, he's just the #7 guy.
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OkimLom
Registered User
- May 3, 2010
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And it's not your job to say that they should fire them.
I'm far from an Adams fan. I hold the opinion that Granato has a shelf life here, and I don't think he's going to be the coach to sustain us in the playoffs, because I think his coaching capabilities to fixing mistakes is poor, mistakes that will happen that will cost you series.
I feel that being able to discuss options outside of them leads to more discussion and conversation than the typical, especially for this time of year, fan outcry of fire everything and everybody. There's a lot more discussion available besides the typical the sky is falling comments.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
There's also the fact that they';re not anywhere close to being fired if they miss the playoffs.
toddkaz
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2022
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Wait, this is a message board isn't it? Where we share our opinions? And you feel I shouldn't have one about this? What happened to debate the post not the poster?
I never said it was my job. You are taking this way to personally.
Dubi Doo
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2008
- 20,632
- 14,772
+/- thus far in Adams tenure
+
Had the balls to intiate a rebuild. Eichel forced his hand, but moving on from Risto, McCabe, Reinhart, etc...was the right call
The big 3 trades were all great (Eichel, Reinhart, Risto)
Drafting and developing has looked great thus far.
E Johnson and Greenway seem like good additions thus far. Clifton has started looking better, too.
A few contracts that look to be aging well (Tage and Cozens)
Doesn't blow his load on stupid FA signings.
-
Bringing back Jost and Okoposo didn't sit well with me. Perhaps he's loyal to a fault. I wanted a revamped bottom 6.
Not bringing in a legit partner for Power irks me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt last year. No excuse this year.
Goaltending. I believe it's incredibly hard to find a good goalie in FA/trades. There's a ton of risk involved because many goalies are a product of their system. Regardless, relying on Levi is risky, and I cant turn a blind eye to a sore spot like goaltending.
I really wish he had the balls to fire a coaches over the offseason.
Too slow to react to in season injuries. Last year, it felt like they piled up, and nothing was done to bring in a better option than Clague /Bryson.
*********************
So, overall, I'm in the wait and see approach with Adams. Drafting and developing is high on my list of 'what it takes to build a contender', so Im more optimistic than some. 6 games isn't going to sway my opinion of him this year. Let's see how this year plays out first before popping off with hot takes.
+
Had the balls to intiate a rebuild. Eichel forced his hand, but moving on from Risto, McCabe, Reinhart, etc...was the right call
The big 3 trades were all great (Eichel, Reinhart, Risto)
Drafting and developing has looked great thus far.
E Johnson and Greenway seem like good additions thus far. Clifton has started looking better, too.
A few contracts that look to be aging well (Tage and Cozens)
Doesn't blow his load on stupid FA signings.
-
Bringing back Jost and Okoposo didn't sit well with me. Perhaps he's loyal to a fault. I wanted a revamped bottom 6.
Not bringing in a legit partner for Power irks me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt last year. No excuse this year.
Goaltending. I believe it's incredibly hard to find a good goalie in FA/trades. There's a ton of risk involved because many goalies are a product of their system. Regardless, relying on Levi is risky, and I cant turn a blind eye to a sore spot like goaltending.
I really wish he had the balls to fire a coaches over the offseason.
Too slow to react to in season injuries. Last year, it felt like they piled up, and nothing was done to bring in a better option than Clague /Bryson.
*********************
So, overall, I'm in the wait and see approach with Adams. Drafting and developing is high on my list of 'what it takes to build a contender', so Im more optimistic than some. 6 games isn't going to sway my opinion of him this year. Let's see how this year plays out first before popping off with hot takes.
Zman5778
Moderator
I'd even go a step further and say that Power has been our worst defender in the top 6 to start the year.
I'm optimistic he'll turn it around, but right now he's not-so-good.
Adams is green.
He is being patient and hesitant to rush into anything, which some see as a fault, but in today's free agent frenzy spend-fest NHL, it can be a blessing.
I think it is pretty clear that the majority of the personnel decisions Adams has made on the roster are Granato decisions. Bringing in Players Granato is familiar with in Greenway and Stillman are definitely Granato moves and not Adam's moves. (although the price paid in trades is on Adams).
At some point the nice guys Don and Kevyn are going to have to make the difficult decisions and cut ties with guys they really like. An over-developed sense of loyalty in pro sports can be a huge crutch, and I think we are seeing that here. Giving guys a chance to redeem themselves both on the coaching staff and on the roster instead of looking outside for upgrades is hamstringing the team's improvement potential.
The silver lining is that this team is so young, that as long as the players continue to improve and mature, the long term goals and championship timeline are not really being hurt too much by missing the playoffs this season.
Realistically, Adams tenure of being in charge of personnel decisions started after Krueger was fired, not when Adams was hired. So this is really his third season being in charge of all the personnel decisions.
For those looking for a successful comp, look to Sakic and the Avs. Sakic took over the hockey personnel decisions and the team made the playoffs, But under him the Avs went from 112 points to 90, to 82, to 48 and missed the playoffs three years in a row, and then made the post season twice, but only because the Central division was a joke, getting in with 90 pts.
In year 9 they made the finals and won, and that is mostly with a build from within strategy until the team was a legitimate contender, at which time he went scorched earth, sell the farm all-in to bring in the role players and depth. I believe that is the model Adams is trying to emulate.
He is being patient and hesitant to rush into anything, which some see as a fault, but in today's free agent frenzy spend-fest NHL, it can be a blessing.
I think it is pretty clear that the majority of the personnel decisions Adams has made on the roster are Granato decisions. Bringing in Players Granato is familiar with in Greenway and Stillman are definitely Granato moves and not Adam's moves. (although the price paid in trades is on Adams).
At some point the nice guys Don and Kevyn are going to have to make the difficult decisions and cut ties with guys they really like. An over-developed sense of loyalty in pro sports can be a huge crutch, and I think we are seeing that here. Giving guys a chance to redeem themselves both on the coaching staff and on the roster instead of looking outside for upgrades is hamstringing the team's improvement potential.
The silver lining is that this team is so young, that as long as the players continue to improve and mature, the long term goals and championship timeline are not really being hurt too much by missing the playoffs this season.
Realistically, Adams tenure of being in charge of personnel decisions started after Krueger was fired, not when Adams was hired. So this is really his third season being in charge of all the personnel decisions.
For those looking for a successful comp, look to Sakic and the Avs. Sakic took over the hockey personnel decisions and the team made the playoffs, But under him the Avs went from 112 points to 90, to 82, to 48 and missed the playoffs three years in a row, and then made the post season twice, but only because the Central division was a joke, getting in with 90 pts.
In year 9 they made the finals and won, and that is mostly with a build from within strategy until the team was a legitimate contender, at which time he went scorched earth, sell the farm all-in to bring in the role players and depth. I believe that is the model Adams is trying to emulate.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
Unfortunately we don't have Sakic. For every team that used this strategy and won a cup, there are dozens that failed.
Just because Adams is following the same strategy, doesn't mean it will work. Adams has proven nothing anywhere, and Sakic is a legend.
What dozens of teams have built patiently through the draft, drafted well, and failed? Most teams are not patient enough for the strategy and make front office changes after a few years and then blow up their rebuild. The average Tenure of NHL GMs is like 5 years -new GM comes in and is pressured to win now, trades all the stockpiled talent to make moderate improvements and turns a loser into a bubble team that never truly competes. Those are the dozens that fail.
The devils stockpiled talent before their cup wins. The Nordiques stockpiled talent before moving to Colorado and winning their cups. The Lightning stockpiled talent before winning their cups. The Blackhawks stockpiled talent before their cups. The Kings stockpiled talent before their cups.
The larger market teams can trade for expiring UFAs with a strong chance of re-signing them due to their market location, or just flat out attract top tiered UFAs. Buffalo is at a disadvantage in that regard, so the process is a bit slower and the model has to be different.
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