Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Gabrielor]

Have you seen the list that Adams has of scrubs he brought in? Mirror image

Every Adams trade.

Since I referenced entirely guys he traded players or picks for...

Adams' sum total of NHL players acquired for picks/prospects is...

2nd,5th,Bloom

for

Stillman,Greenway


Your mirror is broken. There's no similarities at all.

 

[Irie]

It's crazy how many sabres fans want to keep Adams even if we miss the playoffs next year.

Sabres fans love being punished.

It is because no team will find success if you keep changing GMs and keep re-inventing the plan.

This team has failed because it keeps firing GMs every 3 years and they start over every time.

Adams plan is to build through the draft and develop the prospects. It is slow and not sexy, but it is a plan that has a proven track record around the league.

Personally I don't really like a lot of Adam's moves/decisions, but I am willing to ignore some to keep some stability within this organization.

The lockroom is healthy. Players like being here. This may end up being a destination UFAs actually choose if they stay the course, and we may not be on every single players NTC list(which we currently seem to be). Adams is a huge reason for that.

No one is arguing that playoff success could not be achieved faster with heavy moves, but a lot of us are patient enough and have the understanding that this current path is feasible and may actually achieve better end-results than the shortcuts others are pushing for.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, I don't know the other players enough to compare it. I would probably have given up more than most, because he fit the need, AAV, and term perfectly. He would have had a multiplicative effect on the defense. As a leader, mentor, PK. He could have greatly effected Power's development, become a role model for Sammy, and even help Dahlin. In a game like last night, how would that have gone if Ekholm was in for Bryson?

You don't need to sell me on Ekholm the player. I'm just saying that he went for a lot and I don't know that I would want to give up what Nashville was asking from Buffalo.

 

[Sabre the Win]

View attachment 665607

Every Adams trade.

Since I referenced entirely guys he traded players or picks for...

Adams' sum total of NHL players acuired for picks/prospects is...

2nd,5th,Bloom

for

Stillman,Greenway


Your mirror is broken. There's no similarities at all.

Fun house mirror

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

It's crazy how many sabres fans want to keep Adams even if we miss the playoffs next year.

Sabres fans love being punished.

Guess Detroit should fire Yzerman too right? I mean he's been there since 2019 and no playoffs. Or maybe it takes more than 3 seasons to complete a rebuild.

 

[Chainshot]

 

[joshjull]

I think it is time for the Pegula apologists (myself included) to realize that the financial environment of this team has officially changed.

I have been defending the lack of spending as part of the plan to develop the kids and let them play, which i fully support, but the fact that this team has the most free cap available in the league with three free retention slots, and did not use a dime of it to acquire assets on any pass-through deals this dealine, is a very strong indicator that with Kim out of the daily decisions and Lex-Luthor-financial-guru overseeing the team books, Adams access to spending cap to improve the team has been neutered from the level that prior GMs enjoyed.

Until they start moving useful players out to save cash, I don't think they should be labelled a budget first team, but the idea that the GM has the luxury and blessing of an owner who will allow him to spend freely to improve the team seems to no longer be a thing, and it may be wise to curb our expectations.

You're really grasping with this.

Guess Detroit should fire Yzerman too right? I mean he's been there since 2019 and no playoffs. Or maybe it takes more than 3 seasons to complete a rebuild.

I‘d add our rebuild only started in the spring/summer of 2021. So we’re just shy of two years into this

 

[HOOats]

I think it is time for the Pegula apologists (myself included) to realize that the financial environment of this team has officially changed.

I have been defending the lack of spending as part of the plan to develop the kids and let them play, which i fully support, but the fact that this team has the most free cap available in the league with three free retention slots, and did not use a dime of it to acquire assets on any pass-through deals this dealine, is a very strong indicator that with Kim out of the daily decisions and Lex-Luthor-financial-guru overseeing the team books, Adams access to spending cap to improve the team has been neutered from the level that prior GMs enjoyed.

Until they start moving useful players out to save cash, I don't think they should be labelled a budget first team, but the idea that the GM has the luxury and blessing of an owner who will allow him to spend freely to improve the team seems to no longer be a thing, and it may be wise to curb our expectations.

This is pretty fair speculation unfortunately. I think the team will gradually have it's budgetary constraints loosened as it shows greater ability (with this season going a long way towards that), but it won't happen preemptively.

Considering the environment, I think Adams is doing a fantastic job at both restructuring the hockey-side corporate culture and restocking our talent pool. He may have some Darcy in him, but Darcy was a top quality GM in his circumstances.

But imo the Pegulas are embarrassing in their thrift, their lack of innovation and insight, their gilded secrecy, etc. Imagine having a toy like the Sabres that you supposedly love and not pouring every resource possible into it? I have my doubts that a super yacht can pass through the eye of a needle, but hey.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

It's crazy how many sabres fans want to keep Adams even if we miss the playoffs next year.

Sabres fans love being punished.


Yes, it's posted a few pages back.

I checked and i found nothing, but fortunately @Gabrielor did your homework for you.

View attachment 665607

Every Adams trade.

Since I referenced entirely guys he traded players or picks for...

Adams' sum total of NHL players acquired for picks/prospects is...

2nd,5th,Bloom

for

Stillman,Greenway


Your mirror is broken. There's no similarities at all.

Notice how the majority of those trades include draft picks in the return. Adams has really brought in a small amount of players to be long term pieces - (krebs, tuch, stillman, and greenway). Everyone else just came back in trades for draft capital - bjork and hagg primarily. Not the same as botterill by any stretch.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Botts had a ton of flaws, but a major one was he had no idea how to draft and develop young players. It was comical (in a sadistic way) watching the way he handled Thompson and Mittelstadt.

As a fan who attends Rochester games, I can say Adams has so far shown to be way the hell better at drafting and developing talent. Quinn and Peterka were both two of the best prospects I've seen come through Rochester in a long time. Quinn was especially special in the AHL.

This is good sign because Adams wants to largely rely on drafting and developing high-end talent rather than trading for and signing talent, which, if his draft record and development path for these prospects continues at the rate it did for Quinn and Peterka, then we're in good shape, and given how the first round of the 2022 draft is looking- I'm confident he's going to continue killing the draft and developing these kids into future NHLers. Was that a run-on sentence? Because it felt like run-on sentence as I typed it!

Botterill and Adams aren't comparable at all. It's a lazy comparison. Adams may very well end up being a mediocre GM, but he's not Botterill level bad. Not even close.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Botts had a ton of flaws, but a major one was he had no idea how to draft and develop young players. It was comical (in a sadistic way) watching the way he handled Thompson and Mittelstadt.

As a fan who attends Rochester games, I can say Adams has so far shown to be way the hell better at drafting and developing talent. Quinn and Peterka were both two of the best prospects I've seen come through Rochester in a long time. Quinn was especially special in the AHL.

This is good sign because Adams wants to largely rely on drafting and developing high-end talent rather than trading for and signing talent, which, if his draft record and development path for these prospects continues at the rate it did for Quinn and Peterka, then we're in good shape, and given how the first round of the 2022 draft is looking- I'm confident he's going to continue killing the draft and developing these kids into future NHLers. Was that a run-on sentence because it felt like run-on sentence as I typed it?!

Botterill and Adams aren't comparable at all. It's a lazy comparison. Adams may very well end up being a mediocre GM, but he's not Botterill level bad. Not even close.

I think that's exactly where a lot of the disconnect is for some of the fans. They are tired of losing still and don't have the patience for the type of rebuild that adams is doing now. So two years later, these fans see us potentially missing the playoffs again and that's the final straw. Realistically, i think we are ahead of adams' development schedule.

Here is where i struggle with some of the opinions shared in this thread - the team has gotten better. it's obvious that we are trending up. If you listen to some folks, however, we are no better than we were three years ago. I find those takes to be baffling.

Someone said sabres fans like to suffer. I would amend that slightly to "a lot of sabres fans like to find/invent reasons to suffer." We should all be excited, not ready to fire the GM who is righting the ship.

 

[Chainshot]

Adams...

He's been praised internally by his folks for his transparency and communication skills, for letting people do their jobs and that their input is valued. There has been a dramatic shift in how the staff operates and how they present to the public. His scouting staff has input and seems like they're doing a very good job outside of the top 10 which has been a weakness for the org. for almost 2 decades. His analytics dept. draws praise internally (the stuff about Neuchev) and also from the folks out in "Fancy Stat Land" who like and respect the work the data folks he's hired did prior to them going from public to private. Talking heads who get paid to talk about the team in the wider press talk all of this up as well.

The farm team is interesting in how they are trying to operate. I don't know if I agree with how they set this year up in Appert's words to give the team over to Biro/Weissbach/Murray to see if they could elevate but I see that they're trying to figure out what they have in those guys. Getting to the playoffs and then actually winning a round is a step given how the last time they were out of round 1 was back when Ryan Miller, Derek Roy, and company were on the team. They've made some moves to augment there and there seems to be synergy between both organizations such that players don't seem out of place when they come up.

Interestingly, he and probably even more so Granato have seemed to seal the breach between the organization and the local press which helps get to reporting about the players, staff, and prospects instead of the loop of past indignation. Granato seemed like the easy hire and instead has fixed broken or mis-cast players to a degree that it's now just expected. Similar to how the Adams' hire looked expedient, it's actually worked, perhaps even better than anyone could have imagined.

He's made very few roster shaping moves thus far. Greenway and Stillman are the first tangible moves since the resolution of the Eichel drama. He clearly hit the Eichel deal out of the park with how the players involved have helped on the ice in Tuch and Krebs, the future outlook on Ostlund, and the ability to add Greenway with the additional pick. While it remains to be seen with the prospects, it seems like quality work in the Reinhart trade because of how well Levi has performed. Whoever brought him forward inside their personnel dept. turned up a gem, but at the same time, Adams made the unheralded Levi a key piece in moving an established player. He got value out of the Portillo situation and has most of his high-value prospects signed with zero drama. The prospect pipeline is considered both deep and full of high-worth individuals.

The failings are simple - Ullmark's departure and the inability to find satisfactory goaltending since is almost harsh enough to undo the praise. His drafting has a certain bend to it that might be more than a short-term trend and will need to be rounded out with other flavors of player. And he's going to have to show he can turn prospects into players in trade eventually as well but that is still a bit down the road. Can he adapt to the players' arrival faster than the "plan" and not waste their time and ours?

I was about as anti-Adams at his hiring but he has done a lot to change my mind from thinking he was just a convenient hire to think he's doing well at his job and might just be good at it for the long-term.

 

[Irie]

You're really grasping with this.

Am I though?

Adams has claimed in the past that he is willing to weaponize his cap space to bring in assets and improve the team, yet he sat there with all three of his retention slots and enough capspace to retain over 70M of pro-rated cap, and did not make a single deal.

I will admit that looking at the returns Guerin got to facilitate trades with passthrough retentions were pretty underwhelming, but it is still a sign that the budget now takes priority over improving the team.

What it does not mean is that they won't spend to the cap eventually, but it is definitely a sign that they are officially a budget conscious team and I think it is pretty fair to assume that Adams currently has less freedom to spend than Murray or Botts did.

 

[Chainshot]

Am I though?

Adams has claimed in the past that he is willing to weaponize his cap space to bring in assets and improve the team, yet he sat there with all three of his retention slots and enough capspace to retain over 70M of pro-rated cap, and did not make a single deal.

I will admit that looking at the returns Guerin got to facilitate trades with passthrough retentions were pretty underwhelming, but it is still a sign that the budget now takes priority over improving the team.

What it does not mean is that they won't spend to the cap eventually, but it is definitely a sign that they are officially a budget conscious team and I think it is pretty fair to assume that Adams currently has less freedom to spend than Murray or Botts did.

There was something on either Marek or one of the other daily's that said there were some GM's not happy with the retention returns - shade thrown at Guerin for selling cap space low.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Am I though?

Adams has claimed in the past that he is willing to weaponize his cap space to bring in assets and improve the team, yet he sat there with all three of his retention slots and enough capspace to retain over 70M of pro-rated cap, and did not make a single deal.

I will admit that looking at the returns Guerin got to facilitate trades with passthrough retentions were pretty underwhelming, but it is still a sign that the budget now takes priority over improving the team.

What it does not mean is that they won't spend to the cap eventually, but it is definitely a sign that they are officially a budget conscious team and I think it is pretty fair to assume that Adams currently has less freedom to spend than Murray or Botts did.

Attendance slowly creeping back up this season is a good sign. May convince Pegula to open the wallet back up if he is indeed mandating reduced spending right now. Which I'm still not 100% convinced he is doing, but we'll likely never really know for sure.

 

[Irie]

Attendance slowly creeping back up this season is a good sign. May convince Pegula to open the wallet back up if he is indeed mandating reduced spending right now. Which I'm still not 100% convinced he is doing, but we'll likely never really know for sure.

I don't think we can ignore that they installed a strictly financial guy (John Roth) into the position of COO, a position that traditionally oversees sales, marketing, legal, compliance, human resources, finance, IT and governance. It feels like an extremely focused hire.

Had he been hired as CFO, I think it would have sent a different message. But a non sports/hockey guy with a focus on finance being the think-tank behind business operations sends quite a different message.

Feels to me like a bean-counter-overseer hired to make sure money in exceeds the money going out, and may likely influence Adam's ability to make financial decisions.

I admit this is pure speculation on my part, but I think it is worth discussing and I don't think anyone can completely dismiss it one way or the other if we are having an honest discussion. My post also was not meant to be doom and gloom or attack the Pegulas, but I have been defending the spending trend as just part of the plan, but I can not ignore the trends and dismiss all the signs if I am being honest.

 

[TehDoak]

I‘d add our rebuild only started in the spring/summer of 2021. So we’re just shy of two years into this

When our "rebuild" started, we had on our roster already:

2020: 8th overall pick
2019: 7th overall pick
2018: 1st overall pick
2017: 7th overall pick


How is it the start of a rebuild when you have 4 top 10 draft picks the years before?

A rebuild implies the tearing down of something successful.

What Adams did was, essentially, moved on the pre 2018 draft picks. Eichel (2015), Ristolainen (2013), and Reinhart (2014). He took out the Murray Era core, turned it into draft capital, and essentially, the promoted Botterill era core.

His biggest wins have been:

Tuch, coming off a major shoulder surgery, coming back and having a career year
Thompson, who Adams reportedly tried to trade for a mid round pick early in his tenure, turning into a top line center
Skinner, who you would have had to pay teams a kings ransom to take from you, coming back as a top line winger again.
Dahlin becoming an elite d-man.
Cozens becoming a great second line center.

Those are all great things that have happened under his watch. So, as GMs will get credit for the bad, he gets credit for the good.

The question now is, can he take a team, with two scoring lines and an elite d-man, and make it into a consistent playoff team and eventually a contender. That will be where his legacy is forged.

 

[Chainshot]

I don't think we can ignore that they installed a strictly financial guy (John Roth) into the position of COO, a position that traditionally oversees sales, marketing, legal, compliance, human resources, finance, IT and governance. It feels like an extremely focused hire.

Had he been hired as CFO, I think it would have sent a different message. But a non sports/hockey guy with a focus on finance being the think-tank behind business operations sends quite a different message.

Feels to me like a bean-counter-overseer hired to make sure money in exceeds the money going out, and may likely influence Adam's ability to make financial decisions.

I admit this is pure speculation on my part, but I think it is worth discussing and I don't think anyone can completely dismiss it one way or the other if we are having an honest discussion. My post also was not meant to be doom and gloom or attack the Pegulas, but I have been defending the spending trend as just part of the plan, but I can not ignore the trends and dismiss all the signs if I am being honest.

In the press conferences regarding the new COO hire, Adams is still in direct line to Pegula and doesn't bubble up under him. We will likely know more as things go forward but years of throwing money into a hole with no return on investment because of a succession bad teams wasted the previous decade of good will. It should come as no surprise if they are more focused on the burning of money now after 11-12 years of setting it alight.

 

[Chainshot]

When our "rebuild" started, we had on our roster already:

2020: 8th overall pick
2019: 7th overall pick
2018: 1st overall pick
2017: 7th overall pick


How is it the start of a rebuild when you have 4 top 10 draft picks the years before?

A rebuild implies the tearing down of something successful.

What Adams did was, essentially, moved on the pre 2018 draft picks. Eichel (2015), Ristolainen (2013), and Reinhart (2014). He took out the Murray Era core, turned it into draft capital, and essentially, the promoted Botterill era core.

His biggest wins have been:

Tuch, coming off a major shoulder surgery, coming back and having a career year
Thompson, who Adams reportedly tried to trade for a mid round pick early in his tenure, turning into a top line center
Skinner, who you would have had to pay teams a kings ransom to take from you, coming back as a top line winger again.
Dahlin becoming an elite d-man.
Cozens becoming a great second line center.

Those are all great things that have happened under his watch. So, as GMs will get credit for the bad, he gets credit for the good.

The question now is, can he take a team, with two scoring lines and an elite d-man, and make it into a consistent playoff team and eventually a contender. That will be where his legacy is forged.

In many ways, the Sabres right now are similar to where the Leafs were at when they acquired Matthews. They had a base of solid picks and prospects, a competitive AHL team - they weren't going from nothing to competitive. Dubas gets credit for where his team is but there are parts that pre-dated him assuming the GM position and he's done well to keep his most talented players. I would assert Adams has done better by finding savings in his top 2 centers and his D3 thus far.

 

[TehDoak]

In many ways, the Sabres right now are similar to where the Leafs were at when they acquired Matthews. They had a base of solid picks and prospects, a competitive AHL team - they weren't going from nothing to competitive. Dubas gets credit for where his team is but there are parts that pre-dated him assuming the GM position and he's done well to keep his most talented players. I would assert Adams has done better by finding savings in his top 2 centers and his D3 thus far.

The early returns on the Thompson deal are good. I don't think he'll be on this pace for the life on the contract, by a 30G+ 70+ pt center for most of it should be possible. Even if he regresses to a 25G, 50pt center later in it, still isn't an unreasonable deal.

Cozens and Samuelsson remain to be seen. Plenty of centers have had that strong ELC contract year and simply never taken that next step. Samuelsson still has plenty of warts in his game that need to get ironed out that could make that deal be a stinker if he doesn't progress.

I wish Samuelsson would have been more of a bridge deal, tbh, but given the relatively low cap hit and his age (22), you will have the under 26 buyout in 3 years if he's really just not progressing, so the risk is low.

The hardest parts will be here on out for Adams. My fear is he simply doesn't have the emotional detachment or roster building acumen to really turn what is a solid foundation to what could be a decade of success for the Sabres. But, we will see.

 

[Chainshot]

The early returns on the Thompson deal are good. I don't think he'll be on this pace for the life on the contract, by a 30G+ 70+ pt center for most of it should be possible. Even if he regresses to a 25G, 50pt center later in it, still isn't an unreasonable deal.

Cozens and Samuelsson remain to be seen. Plenty of centers have had that strong ELC contract year and simply never taken that next step. Samuelsson still has plenty of warts in his game that need to get ironed out that could make that deal be a stinker if he doesn't progress.

I wish Samuelsson would have been more of a bridge deal, tbh, but given the relatively low cap hit and his age (22), you will have the under 26 buyout in 3 years if he's really just not progressing, so the risk is low.

The hardest parts will be here on out for Adams. My fear is he simply doesn't have the emotional detachment or roster building acumen to really turn what is a solid foundation to what could be a decade of success for the Sabres. But, we will see.

Samuelsson in the lineup the last two years, the team has a .597 winning percentage with compared to a .408 without over that span. Said another way, .597 is a 98 point pace.

As for Cozens, his production is right in line with guys like Robertson and Thomas, better than guys like Josh Norris, Kyle Connor and even Nico Hischier at the same age and all of them got paid.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

I just hope he adds a middling defenceman off season.

 

[toddkaz]

Eric Comrie another patch job by Kevyn Adams.

If Adams doesn't get this team help and Comrie and UPL are our starting goalies next year and we miss the playoffs then Adams needs to be fired into the sun.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Eric Comrie another patch job by Kevyn Adams.

If Adams doesn't get this team help and Comrie and UPL are our starting goalies next year and we miss the playoffs then Adams needs to be fired into the sun.

Hopefully this is the final straw in his thick noggin to figure out that crap goaltending doesn't work and you can't wait for Levi. Sabres got beat by 4 good goalies this last week.

 

[toddkaz]

Hopefully this is the final straw in his thick noggin to figure out that crap goaltending doesn't work and you can't wait for Levi. Sabres got beat by 4 good goalies this last week.

This is a playoff team with a good goalie or Adams addressed the defense at the deadline.

He did neither