Kevyn Adams GM thread

[EichHart]

The team is exactly where we wanted it to be before the season started. That is in the wildcard hunt in March. His job is fine for a minimum 3 yrs. If we miss the playoffs by yr 3 then it might be in question. He's made some great deals with our young players already.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yep, still not the problem. UFA's at the deadline would solve nothing and everyone agrees. We could probably even move on from that pert of the argument.

Its good that he was focused on getting better players with term. Should have been in the offseason as well. He didn't get it done, and is slowly slipping behind the 8-ball.

The team on the ice is the one, for better or worse, that KA gave Granato to work with. It makes me question their plan, or type of team they are building, and their ability to understand and evaluate the right players. Several of the players on this team could have been replaced and upgraded last offseason that to me clearly didn't have it for a playoff team, which should be the measuring stick. Joker was never going to be the #4. He doesn't have the size of tenacity to fill that role, and as a thirdline pair is not desirable as he does not block shot, penalty kill, or play physical. Olofsson has had more value as a trade asset than player for years now. Bryson works hard, but will never have the size needed, there is no point hoping on a 1 in a 1000 chance he becomes something special.

He has done some things right, but it is starting to look like he is unsure how to proceed from here. I am very concerned.

I figured going into this season that the plan was to look for growth and next season would be the one to focus on making the playoffs.

I did not see this season as the one that they made the playoffs. So, while I probably would have made more win now moves if I were GM and the season played out as it has, I also understand why Adams was more patient than I would be and more patient than most fans want him to be.

When it comes to players, we have no idea what the trade market is for them. I bet most people think it would have been way easier for Philly to move JVR than he really was, for instance.

We are all guessing as what the ask was for Chychrun when it comes to the Sabres, for instance.

And there are certainly people that would have wanted a pending UFA or two if it increased the odds of the team making the playoffs this year.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I'm going to give some of my thoughts on Adams, though I know my opinion won't necessarily change someone elses. Some of the criticisms or expectations seem unwarranted to me. Not all of them, but the way Adams gets talked about by some here you'd think he was the worst GM in the NHL.

How many GM's in this league have taken a team from a bottom feeder to a playoff team in 3 seasons and been able to sustain that success? Lou did it with Toronto is one I can think of, and how did that happen? Because he had 3 prospects come into the league and performed immediately. All 3 were drafted by Toronto in the top 10 along with several other young players who were already there.

Other GM's that have done it came in with rosters that already had the primary pieces in place, they didn't come in with a toxic locker room and then have to trade their franchise center, a top 6 winger and whatever Risto was. Some teams also were fortunate enough to have a #1 Dman force their way to the team *cough* Rangers *cough*

So how about we look at another GM that started around the same time and compare Adams to Yzerman who many around here like to tout as one of the best GM's in the NHL, and had his offseason hailed as being lightyears better than Adams.
- Yzerman started a year before Adams. 2019 vs 2020
- Yzerman inherited several prospects drafted in the top 10, just like Adams.
- Yzerman had several established players on his roster, just like Adams.
- They both had what was considered top 5 prospect pools the past couple of seasons.
- Adams traded his top established players for youth, Yzerman just did that with a couple of his at the TDL.
- They've both drafted well in their time.
- They both have young rosters, and have prospects that haven't met expectations.
- They both have some of those disappointing players and prospects still playing for the team.
- They've both finished close together in the standings each year they've been in charge.

So what did Yzerman do that made him stand out ahead of Adams? Is it because he brought in a bunch of free agents? He had more roster spots to fill that prospects weren't ready for. His big goalie acquisition in 2021 is now buried in the minors. His big goalie acquisition this past offseason is barely above a .900 save %.

My point is people continue to level these heavy criticisms at Adams for being patient, and I just don't get it.

We've seen steady progress during his tenure. We've seen him ship out some younger players so far he didn't see as part of the future. He also added some grit in Stillman and Greenway. He was in on Chychrun until near the end, so we KNOW he sees the holes or needs on the roster. He's making some changes and tweaks, but I guess not at the speed some want him to make them?

Just like many I wish they could have better addressed the teams needs before the TDL, but I get why they didn't overpay for what could have only been a band-aid. I still have confidence Adams will address those needs in the offseason, as we've seen some evidence already that he recognizes them. Will I be aggravated if he doesn't do much? Of course. But I'm not going to just assume he won't to get myself worked up over it.

Sorry for such a long post.

 

[Bendium]

I figured going into this season that the plan was to look for growth and next season would be the one to focus on making the playoffs.

I did not see this season as the one that they made the playoffs. So, while I probably would have made more win now moves if I were GM and the season played out as it has, I also understand why Adams was more patient than I would be and more patient than most fans want him to be.

When it comes to players, we have no idea what the trade market is for them. I bet most people think it would have been way easier for Philly to move JVR than he really was, for instance.

We are all guessing as what the ask was for Chychrun when it comes to the Sabres, for instance.

And there are certainly people that would have wanted a pending UFA or two if it increased the odds of the team making the playoffs this year.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. To me, winning will take care of itself when you put good players on the ice with good coaching. You should always be looking to improve the team. It should not be a wait and wait and wait till you get a little window and then blow all you got trying to make one push.

Our team and prospect pool is very unbalanced. We have some very hi end players, supported by some very poor quality players. Our prospect pool is very unbalanced, and is going to bring us alot more of what we already have. The prospect pool is not set up to fix our holes, and nothing you draft this year can do that either.

Changes have to be made, and it is going to have to come through trades and possibly a UFA signing or two. There is also no problem signing a few UFA's to short term to fill needs until you find long term solutions.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I think Dahlin's best season is yet to come. I do worry on Tage/Tuch though.

Even if this is Tage and Tuch's ceiling, it's a pretty damn good ceiling for these two. There is no reason to speculate this is a flash in the pan for the two.

In reality you don't need those two to get better, you need the others around them to elevate their game and play and push their ceiling.

 

[Chainshot]

Even if this is Tage and Tuch's ceiling, it's a pretty damn good ceiling for these two. There is no reason to speculate this is a flash in the pan for the two.

In reality you don't need those two to get better, you need the others around them to elevate their game and play and push their ceiling.

They do very much need Thompson to start defending better - if that means being better at possession in the offensive zone or how he comes back to play the hybrid wing/center thing they do where Tuch is the low man, but he is giving away a lot that his offensive prowess provides in how weak he is on d-zone possession battles and positioning.

As to @WhereAreTheCookies point above - the comment that he's built "a playoff team". He's built one in competition for a playoff spot. They aren't there yet.

 

[Sabre the Win]

They do very much need Thompson to start defending better - if that means being better at possession in the offensive zone or how he comes back to play the hybrid wing/center thing they do where Tuch is the low man, but he is giving away a lot that his offensive prowess provides in how weak he is on d-zone possession battles and positioning.

I agree he can learn to back check better but my point of the post was offensively on production. If production wise this is Tage and Tuchs ceiling, I am perfectly fine with that.

 

[Dubi Doo]

In my mind, I'd be happy if Tage sacrificed some points to become a much more well rounded two-way player. I think he can do it. It's not an easy task playing a well rounded game as a center.

 

[Jim Bob]

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. To me, winning will take care of itself when you put good players on the ice with good coaching. You should always be looking to improve the team. It should not be a wait and wait and wait till you get a little window and then blow all you got trying to make one push.

Our team and prospect pool is very unbalanced. We have some very hi end players, supported by some very poor quality players. Our prospect pool is very unbalanced, and is going to bring us alot more of what we already have. The prospect pool is not set up to fix our holes, and nothing you draft this year can do that either.

Changes have to be made, and it is going to have to come through trades and possibly a UFA signing or two. There is also no problem signing a few UFA's to short term to fill needs until you find long term solutions.

The challenge is if you are moving out prospects and picks before you have a good handle on who they are, then you can really hurt your team in the medium term in favor of short term results.

For instance, if they had traded 1st+Savoie or Kulich for Chychrun and it plays out that Chychrun leaves as a UFA when his current deal runs out and the prospect ends up being a much better NHLer than Quinn and Peterka, it ends up being a poor use of resources over the long haul.

I believe that was Adams' thought process when he said that Savoie and Kulich were non-starters in trade talks. And I completely understand that thought process.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm going to give some of my thoughts on Adams, though I know my opinion won't necessarily change someone elses. Some of the criticisms or expectations seem unwarranted to me. Not all of them, but the way Adams gets talked about by some here you'd think he was the worst GM in the NHL.

How many GM's in this league have taken a team from a bottom feeder to a playoff team in 3 seasons and been able to sustain that success? Lou did it with Toronto is one I can think of, and how did that happen? Because he had 3 prospects come into the league and performed immediately. All 3 were drafted by Toronto in the top 10 along with several other young players who were already there.

Other GM's that have done it came in with rosters that already had the primary pieces in place, they didn't come in with a toxic locker room and then have to trade their franchise center, a top 6 winger and whatever Risto was. Some teams also were fortunate enough to have a #1 Dman force their way to the team *cough* Rangers *cough*

So how about we look at another GM that started around the same time and compare Adams to Yzerman who many around here like to tout as one of the best GM's in the NHL, and had his offseason hailed as being lightyears better than Adams.
- Yzerman started a year before Adams. 2019 vs 2020
- Yzerman inherited several prospects drafted in the top 10, just like Adams.
- Yzerman had several established players on his roster, just like Adams.
- They both had what was considered top 5 prospect pools the past couple of seasons.
- Adams traded his top established players for youth, Yzerman just did that with a couple of his at the TDL.
- They've both drafted well in their time.
- They both have young rosters, and have prospects that haven't met expectations.
- They both have some of those disappointing players and prospects still playing for the team.
- They've both finished close together in the standings each year they've been in charge.

So what did Yzerman do that made him stand out ahead of Adams? Is it because he brought in a bunch of free agents? He had more roster spots to fill that prospects weren't ready for. His big goalie acquisition in 2021 is now buried in the minors. His big goalie acquisition this past offseason is barely above a .900 save %.

My point is people continue to level these heavy criticisms at Adams for being patient, and I just don't get it.

We've seen steady progress during his tenure. We've seen him ship out some younger players so far he didn't see as part of the future. He also added some grit in Stillman and Greenway. He was in on Chychrun until near the end, so we KNOW he sees the holes or needs on the roster. He's making some changes and tweaks, but I guess not at the speed some want him to make them?

Just like many I wish they could have better addressed the teams needs before the TDL, but I get why they didn't overpay for what could have only been a band-aid. I still have confidence Adams will address those needs in the offseason, as we've seen some evidence already that he recognizes them. Will I be aggravated if he doesn't do much? Of course. But I'm not going to just assume he won't to get myself worked up over it.

Sorry for such a long post.

I'm not a KA basher, just think he could have done more/better with some of the moves he's made.

Defense - Signed Lyubushkin for 3rd pair RHD. I wanted a 2nd pair RHD and push Jokiharju to 3rd pair. KA saw that move as being necessary during the summer and I agree, just needed a better guy. Traded for Stillman, which imo is just adding another bad Dman that only brings a different element than the other bad Dmen he replaced. Stillman, Bryson, and Clague shouldn't see ice time...at all...ever. In the summer, I can give him slack for waiting to see what he had in those guys, and Fitz and Pilut. Early in the season it was apparent that none of them are good enough, so I don't mind waiting for the season to make a move (even as far as the TDL), but Stillman is a whole two levels of talent less than what he should have been targeting. I really don't get that trade at all.

Goalie - Yzerman is no savant in my eyes, but he did exactly what KA should have done and trade a pick for Husso's rights (Det traded a 3rd but Buf had three 2nds). Any goalie was going to struggle with the Sabres but it's not in doubt for me, that Husso would have been 4-6 pts or more better than Comrie/UPL. His three year deal would align perfectly with Levi's development path.

These roster flaws have persisted enough this season to be a difference maker between playoffs or not, while the moves I hoped for would have still been developmentally friendly with "the plan". He's done poorly in that regard, but done really well to change the atmosphere around the club, and allow the scouting dept to make the most of the draft process.

 

[joshjull]

I think Dahlin's best season is yet to come. I do worry on Tage/Tuch though.

Why are you worried? Being what they are now, or close to it, going forward is awesome.

 

[Gabrielor]

Why are you worried? Being what they are now, or close to it, going forward is awesome.

Not worried in the sense that I don't think they're still great players, merely that this could be their best career years.

 

[K8fool]

Not worried in the sense that I don't think they're still great players, merely that this could be their best career years.

Sknner and Thompson get exposed without Rene Robert Tuch.
Quinn w Mitts and our hero Whitehorse.
Girgs and Yost help okposo
A stronger Krebs intrigues..same w peterka.. hopefully Greenway can fit

A humble driven Star like a briere o4 a peca ,a real lead by example 2nd liner would take all the pressure off

 

[K8fool]

I'm not a KA basher, just think he could have done more/better with some of the moves he's made.

Defense - Signed Lyubushkin for 3rd pair RHD. I wanted a 2nd pair RHD and push Jokiharju to 3rd pair. KA saw that move as being necessary during the summer and I agree, just needed a better guy. Traded for Stillman, which imo is just adding another bad Dman that only brings a different element than the other bad Dmen he replaced. Stillman, Bryson, and Clague shouldn't see ice time...at all...ever. In the summer, I can give him slack for waiting to see what he had in those guys, and Fitz and Pilut. Early in the season it was apparent that none of them are good enough, so I don't mind waiting for the season to make a move (even as far as the TDL), but Stillman is a whole two levels of talent less than what he should have been targeting. I really don't get that trade at all.

Goalie - Yzerman is no savant in my eyes, but he did exactly what KA should have done and trade a pick for Husso's rights (Det traded a 3rd but Buf had three 2nds). Any goalie was going to struggle with the Sabres but it's not in doubt for me, that Husso would have been 4-6 pts or more better than Comrie/UPL. His three year deal would align perfectly with Levi's development path.

These roster flaws have persisted enough this season to be a difference maker between playoffs or not, while the moves I hoped for would have still been developmentally friendly with "the plan". He's done poorly in that regard, but done really well to change the atmosphere around the club, and allow the scouting dept to make the most of the draft process.

Detroit crashes and burns before us.. Goalie is strange. Husso..Comrie without being run into might have outperformed many.. Crap shoot.. You might have the best goalie whose personal life implodes.

 

[Bendium]

The challenge is if you are moving out prospects and picks before you have a good handle on who they are, then you can really hurt your team in the medium term in favor of short term results.

For instance, if they had traded 1st+Savoie or Kulich for Chychrun and it plays out that Chychrun leaves as a UFA when his current deal runs out and the prospect ends up being a much better NHLer than Quinn and Peterka, it ends up being a poor use of resources over the long haul.

I believe that was Adams' thought process when he said that Savoie and Kulich were non-starters in trade talks. And I completely understand that thought process.

I agree with alot of your post, just understand that my discussions have never been about paying premium assets for short term results. My arguments have been about trading from strength to fill mid to longterm needs.

I was never big on Chychrun for all the reasons you started. I thought he was redundant to Dahlin and Power for the cost and didn't like that its 1.5 years before you can talk extension, plus his MNMC would make asset recovery harder if you had to trade him his last year to recover assets. I would not have hated it though.

I would have paid for Ekholm though. Perfect fit IMO.

We will need to fill some big holes with good players, long before players like Savoie are ready to take on a role we already have covered. Thats why I am good with trading him for a slightly older player that fits what we need sooner, but still long term.

 

[Jim Bob]

I agree with alot of your post, just understand that my discussions have never been about paying premium assets for short term results. My arguments have been about trading from strength to fill mid to longterm needs.

I was never big on Chychrun for all the reasons you started. I thought he was redundant to Dahlin and Power for the cost and didn't like that its 1.5 years before you can talk extension, plus his MNMC would make asset recovery harder if you had to trade him his last year to recover assets. I would not have hated it though.

I would have paid for Ekholm though. Perfect fit IMO.

We will need to fill some big holes with good players, long before players like Savoie are ready to take on a role we already have covered. Thats why I am good with trading him for a slightly older player that fits what we need sooner, but still long term.

I like Ekholm, I just doubt I would have wanted to top the Oilers offer.

The Sabres did not have a Barrie-esque NHL D to send back. So, who knows what the ask would have been.

The '23 1st (no protrection) and 4th were easy to compare.

They are probably asking for Kulich with Schaefer in the deal.

And then there is another piece that would have to have roughly the same trade value as Barrie or a little more.

I also do not see Savoie as a guy that is ready way down the line and is someone to be used as a trade piece now.

I think that approach is speeding things up too much as then you get into discussions about trading Levi for a win now goalie as Levi may be just as far away as Savoie.

 

[Bendium]

I like Ekholm, I just doubt I would have wanted to top the Oilers offer.

The Sabres did not have a Barrie-esque NHL D to send back. So, who knows what the ask would have been.

The '23 1st (no protrection) and 4th were easy to compare.

They are probably asking for Kulich with Schaefer in the deal.

And then there is another piece that would have to have roughly the same trade value as Barrie or a little more.

I also do not see Savoie as a guy that is ready way down the line and is someone to be used as a trade piece now.

I think that approach is speeding things up too much as then you get into discussions about trading Levi for a win now goalie as Levi may be just as far away as Savoie.

Yeah, I don't know the other players enough to compare it. I would probably have given up more than most, because he fit the need, AAV, and term perfectly. He would have had a multiplicative effect on the defense. As a leader, mentor, PK. He could have greatly effected Power's development, become a role model for Sammy, and even help Dahlin. In a game like last night, how would that have gone if Ekholm was in for Bryson?

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

This team has 2 #1 overall picks on D. A superstar center he inherited. A 30+ goal scoring top line winger inherited. 3 top 10 picks in his top 9. Along with embarrassing D depth he had 2 years to fix. Are we supposed to be in awe over Adams? Because this is not impressive. A team loaded with top 10 picks should be good. So sick of this loser mentality.

 

[Irie]

I think it is time for the Pegula apologists (myself included) to realize that the financial environment of this team has officially changed.

I have been defending the lack of spending as part of the plan to develop the kids and let them play, which i fully support, but the fact that this team has the most free cap available in the league with three free retention slots, and did not use a dime of it to acquire assets on any pass-through deals this dealine, is a very strong indicator that with Kim out of the daily decisions and Lex-Luthor-financial-guru overseeing the team books, Adams access to spending cap to improve the team has been neutered from the level that prior GMs enjoyed.

Until they start moving useful players out to save cash, I don't think they should be labelled a budget first team, but the idea that the GM has the luxury and blessing of an owner who will allow him to spend freely to improve the team seems to no longer be a thing, and it may be wise to curb our expectations.

 

[toddkaz]

Botterill was not patient, he was just stupid.

Skinner, Wilson, Simmonds, Montour, Miller, Scandella, Pominville, Vesey, Frolik, Kahun is not patience.

Have you seen the list that Adams has of scrubs he brought in? Mirror image

 

[zenthusiast]

I’d like to see them start the year with NHL-caliber players at every position. Ideally a few more good ones, too.

If it’s acceptable that they don’t have that, it’s not really possible to meaningfully assess the GM.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Have you seen the list that Adams has of scrubs he brought in? Mirror image

Care to share your list?

 

[Irie]

I agree he can learn to back check better but my point of the post was offensively on production. If production wise this is Tage and Tuchs ceiling, I am perfectly fine with that.

Both of their point totals can slip and they both can definitely still become more complete players that will make the team much better, even if they aren't as prolific scorers.

They are both playing in relatively new roles and have so much yet to learn. We put way too much emphasis on point production and ignore way too many of the little things the players due to help the team win.

Hopefully as the other kids mature, this team won't need Tuch and Thompson to have 5 points between them as often to win games.

 

[toddkaz]

It's crazy how many sabres fans want to keep Adams even if we miss the playoffs next year.

Sabres fans love being punished.

Care to share your list?

Yes, it's posted a few pages back.

 

[Irie]

Have you seen the list that Adams has of scrubs he brought in? Mirror image

The big difference is the cost to acquire the irrelevant pieces Adams brought is no where near at the level of the cost to acquire the irrelevant pieces Botts brought in. That can not be overlooked in this comparison.

Botts spent to bring in what he thought were solutions. Adams didn't really spend much to bring in what he knew were bandaids.

It shows that the two had very different plans.