Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I'm late on this, but what are you on about?

These are the right shot, right defenders signed since July 1st:

Travis Hamonic - old, not particularly good, $1.1m
Connor Carick - 2 way contract - i.e., not an NHL player
Brady Lyle - not an NHL player
Dylan McIlrath - not an NHL player
Mac Hollowell - not an NHL player
John Klingberg - $4.1m
Shayne Gostisbehere - $4.1m
Luke Schenn - old, geologically slow, $2.8m
Steven Santini - not an NHL player
Radko Gudas - painfully slow, very physical, 3x$3.2m
Brogan Rafferty - not an NHL player
Justin Holl - more like Justin LOL
Scott Mayfield - 7x$3.5m
Brady Keeper - not an NHL player
Kyle Burroughs - only one that might fit your critera, but only 11 career NHL points
Josh Jacobs - not an NHL player
Troy Stecher - 7 points in 20 games before being traded to Arizona, where he didn't amount to much of anything
Erik Johnson - ancient, $3.5m

These are the remaining right shot, right defenders available via UFA:

Matt Dumba - way too expensive
Ethan Bear - not qualified at $2.2m. Maybe he signs for $1m? Maybe? Doesn't have the stats; doesn't have the physicality.
Anton Stalman - enough said
Nicolas Meloche - young and somewhat physical, but couldn't produce in the AHL. Wasn't given a qualifying offer from the Avs. At $750k.
Ryan Merkley - Rumored to be going to Europe. Not an NHL player.
Joshua Maniscalco - wasn't given a QO off his ELC. He's an ECHL player.
Cal Foote - maybe he turns into something, but no QO after 140 NHL games. His father was pretty phycial, though.
Mark Pysyk - he's Canadian and it's confusing spelling his name.
Colin Swoyer - he didn't suck in college. At Michgan Tech.
Seth Barton - not an NHL player
Wyatte Wylie - not an NHL player
Dawson Barteaux - ECHL player
Bode Wilde - awesome name, didn't even look like much in the ECHL or Allsvenskan.
Madison Bowey - not an NHL player
Casey Fitzgerald - Got two playoff games this past spring. Not big, not terribly physical and might not be an NHL player.
Austin Strand - 26 NHL games at age 26.
Andy Welinski - not an NHL player
Andrej Sustr - not an NHL player these days
Jason Demers - one NHL game since 2021

A half dozen, you say?

Bear blew us out for six months and he may be the best of the lot

Kevin Shattenkirk - old. Not particularly good.

 

[CDJ]

I'm not saying he isn't.

I'm saying I wanted a different kind of player. One that we could have used to help us beat a Florida team that walked all over us in our defensive zone.

I don't know why that's the wrong answer.

In a series where guys like Orlov, McAvoy, and Lindholm were getting dogwalked I don’t think any of the guys you listed would be helping. The 3rd pairing partner of Forbort ain’t shifting the energy, they had a mean guy (a better version of Burroughs really) in that role and he was arguably their worst player the entire series

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

My nothing? Shattenkirk was a good signing at good money at good term. You’ve thrown nothing back. And you’re really mad about it.

Okey dokey!

 

[BlackFrancis]

Kevin Shattenkirk - old. Not particularly good.

More points scored on the 2nd worst offensive team in the NHL last season. Probably more than 95% of those on those lists.

 

[CDJ]

Wait is Dumba really a free agent?

Aw man I like him

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

In a series where guys like Orlov, McAvoy, and Lindholm were getting dogwalked I don’t think any of the guys you listed would be helping. The 3rd pairing partner of Forbort ain’t shifting the energy, they had a mean guy in that role and he was arguably their worst player the entire series

I said there were types of players I would prefer. You don't like them. That's fine. But I'm not going to engage in the conversation if the response is simply to be dismissive.

You think Shattenkirk is a great signing. I wanted something different. Agree to disagree

 

[BlackFrancis]

I'm not saying he isn't.

I'm saying I wanted a different kind of player. One that we could have used to help us beat a Florida team that walked all over us in our defensive zone.

I don't know why that's the wrong answer.

I wanted Hakanpaa two years ago. He wasn't available this summer. There was no giant checking Finn analogue available either.

 

[CDJ]

I said there were types of players I would prefer. You don't like them. That's fine. But I'm not going to engage in the conversation if the response is simply to be dismissive.

You think Shattenkirk is a great signing. I wanted something different. Agree to disagree

I don’t understand how that is dismissive, that is just a reality. None of those guys available for $1 mill are changing that series regardless of the style they played. The type of player you wanted was arguably the worst player in the entire series and is now gone.

I don’t even think Shattenkirk a great signing, I think it’s fine especially given the circumstances. I think he had a clear role. IMO it’s not worth getting worked up about it

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I said there were types of players I would prefer. You don't like them. That's fine. But I'm not going to engage in the conversation if the response is simply to be dismissive.

You think Shattenkirk is a great signing. I wanted something different. Agree to disagree

Lol ok. You want things that don’t exist. That’s fine. No need to be a giant dick about it. And that’s underselling how much of a dick you were about it.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Lol ok. You want things that don’t exist. That’s fine. No need to be a giant sick about it. And that’s underselling how much of a dick you were about it.

That's me. A huge dick. Such a dick that I stooped to insults and name calling. What an asshole.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I don’t understand how that is dismissive, that is just a reality. None of those guys available for $1 mill are changing that series regardless of the style they played. The type of player you wanted was arguably the worst player in the entire series and is now gone.

I don’t even think Shattenkirk a great signing, I think it’s fine especially given the circumstances. I think he had a clear role. IMO it’s not worth getting worked up about it

Dude, I just get sick of hearing how I should just eat the shit sandwich and be happy about it. I'm not happy with this offseason. It sucked. And it didn't take a lot of decision-making for it not to suck... At least quite as bad.

I don't have a problem with what Sweeney did that got us to the tight cap situation. I didn't complain about giving Hall away for free. And I liked the draft. Hell, I've even championed the Geekie signing as something interesting that I'm looking forward to watching unfold.

For what it's worth:
Kulikov
Lindstrom
Juulsen
Beaulieu
Strand
Jones
Bear
Hamonic
Burroughs

All players I would have have been more on board with than Shattenkirk. But I know. They're all disqualified as shit and Shattenkirk isn't.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Dude, I just get sick of hearing how I should just eat the shit sandwich and be happy about it. I'm not happy with this offseason. It sucked. And it didn't take a lot of decision-making for it not to suck... At least quite as bad.

I don't have a problem with what Sweeney did that got us to the tight cap situation. I didn't complain about giving Hall away for free. And I liked the draft. Hell, I've even championed the Geekie signing as something interesting that I'm looking forward to watching unfold.

For what it's worth:
Kulikov
Lindstrom
Juulsen
Beaulieu
Strand
Jones
Bear
Hamonic
Burroughs

All players I would have have been more on board with than Shattenkirk. But I know. They're all disqualified as shit and Shattenkirk isn't.

Bear is out six months
Kulikov and Jones are LHD
Noah Juulsen’s stats are attached
I don’t even know what to do with you wanting Austin Strand over Kevin Shattenkirk
And I have no opinion on Nathan Beaulieu. And no
one

else does either.

 

[BlackFrancis]

Bear is out six months
Kulikov and Jones are LHD
Noah Juulsen’s stats are attached
I don’t even know what to do with you wanting Austin Strand over Kevin Shattenkirk
And I have no opinion on Nathan Beaulieu. And no
one View attachment 727136else does either.

Juulsen never made it to FA. Got signed the last day of June.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Juulsen never made it to FA. Got signed the last day of June.

Well that’s a novel unto itself now isn’t it?

 

[CDJ]

Dude, I just get sick of hearing how I should just eat the shit sandwich and be happy about it. I'm not happy with this offseason. It sucked. And it didn't take a lot of decision-making for it not to suck... At least quite as bad.

I don't have a problem with what Sweeney did that got us to the tight cap situation. I didn't complain about giving Hall away for free. And I liked the draft. Hell, I've even championed the Geekie signing as something interesting that I'm looking forward to watching unfold.

For what it's worth:
Kulikov
Lindstrom
Juulsen
Beaulieu
Strand
Jones
Bear
Hamonic
Burroughs

All players I would have have been more on board with than Shattenkirk. But I know. They're all disqualified as shit and Shattenkirk isn't.

They all have major warts and that’s why they got signed for peanuts, it’s really not worth getting that upset about when A) they signed Shattenkirk in part because it’s a 1 year deal they can easily bury and B) some of the guys you listed didn’t even hit the market and don’t even play the needed side!

It’s not a shit sandwich! It’s a bottom pairing defenseman signed to play on the bottom pairing! This time they made the improvement of not giving the bottom pairing guy 3+ years when there are guys on entry level deals coming up who can fill that role in the near future. They’re going to need to save half milly’s here and there on rookie deals to get impact talent with some of the long term contracts on the books. Don’t have the luxury of committing term to free agent veteran 3rd pairing defensemen. Top 4 guy? Sure throw some term at them. Not Shattenkirk, or Burroughs, or Hamonic etc etc etc. Shattenkirk required zero term and has a defined role on the team and will get PP minutes. That’s why he is here imo (coupled with him wanting to be here obvs)

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Juulsen never made it to FA. Got signed the last day of June.

You're right. I missed this one by one day

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

They all have major warts and that’s why they got signed for peanuts, it’s really not worth getting that upset about when A) they signed Shattenkirk in part because it’s a 1 year deal they can easily bury and B) some of the guys you listed didn’t even hit the market and don’t even play the needed side!

It’s not a shit sandwich! It’s a bottom pairing defenseman signed to play on the bottom pairing! This time they made the improvement of not giving the bottom pairing guy 3+ years when there are guys on entry level deals coming up who can fill that role in the near future. They’re going to need to save half milly’s here and there on rookie deals to get impact talent with some of the long term contracts on the books. Don’t have the luxury of committing term to free agent veteran 3rd pairing defensemen. Top 4 guy? Sure throw some term at them. Not Shattenkirk, or Burroughs, or Hamonic etc etc etc. Shattenkirk required zero term and has a defined role on the team and will get PP minutes. That’s why he is here imo (coupled with him wanting to be here obvs)

I'm wrong to have prioritized some modicum of upside and/or physical play in my bargain bin shopping. My fault. I understand that now. Thank you.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Jones and Kulikov can play either side. Part of their value.

I'm sorry I didn't explain that was part of my rationale. I'm wrong anyway.

 

[CDJ]

Kulikov has a ton of familiarity with the panthers org, the panthers are closer to the cup, and he doesn’t have to pay taxes in Florida. They would have to outbid Florida to get him. Do you think Kulikov is worth outbidding somebody for with our cap situation? I’m not even sure he’s a better player than Shattenkirk at this point in his career either! Pittsburgh was giving him 12 min a night down the stretch when they were in a tight playoff hunt, they more or less had him stapled to the pine

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Kulikov has a ton of familiarity with the panthers org, the panthers are closer to the cup, and he doesn’t have to pay taxes in Florida. They would have to outbid Florida to get him. Do you think Kulikov is worth outbidding somebody for with our cap situation? I’m not even sure he’s a better player than Shattenkirk at this point in his career either! Pittsburgh was giving him 12 min a night down the stretch when they were in a tight playoff hunt, they more or less had him stapled to the pine

You're right. All of the players I identified are shit. And Shattenkirk is excellent.

 

[CDJ]

You're right. All of the players I identified are shit. And Shattenkirk is excellent.

They’re all not great! Including Shattenkirk! But one was an easy sign at 1 yr 1 mill and every other player you mentioned either got term, more money, isn’t an NHL player, or wouldn’t want to play here unless we outbid!

You’re being weirdly over-dramatic about a #6 who could even be a #7 if a kid steps up. Especially one that actually fills a role effectively on special teams. And has cup winning experience.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

They’re all not great! Including Shattenkirk! But one was an easy sign at 1 yr 1 mill and every other player you mentioned either got term, more money, isn’t an NHL player, or wouldn’t want to play here unless we outbid!

You’re being weirdly dramatic

I know. I'm sorry. I should have just listened to you in the first place. My opinions are invalid. I wanted different kind of player. I was wrong.

I'm sorry.

 

[CDJ]

Yeah point proven. I’m actually making points about why Kulikov wouldn’t want to be here, and you’re doing whatever it is youre doing. Being over dramatic. Carry on, enjoy doing that!

 

[BlackFrancis]

Here's my thing with Shattenkirk - I've always liked him as a player. I mentioned this in the main FA thread back when he was signed, but I've wanted him on the Bruins at two points over the past decade, but he's always made too much money.

The last time he played meaningful hockey, he was making less than $2m on a one year, prove it deal with the Lightning. He posted half a PPG in the regular season and the playoffs for them in one of the their Cup runs.

He's produced in the playoffs whenever he's been there, at a point rate comparable to Charlie McAvoy and much higher than Hampus Lindholm. They're far better players, but they are far better compensated for the 2024 season.

If they are keeping Forbort, I don't see the downside to replacing Connor Clifton with a player that can keep the puck out of Forbort's end, rather than run around trying to chase players who have just sped past Forbort. Sticking someone like Gudas with Forbort should be a theoretical disaster, much like if the Panthers paired him with Staal.

This kind of move - if it works, you don't have to upgrade that spot in March. If it doesn't, well, there weren't any can't miss types passed over anyway.

 

[CDJ]

Here's my thing with Shattenkirk - I've always liked him as a player. I mentioned this in the main FA thread back when he was signed, but I've wanted him on the Bruins at two points over the past decade, but he's always made too much money.

The last time he played meaningful hockey, he was making less than $2m on a one year, prove it deal with the Lightning. He posted half a PPG in the regular season and the playoffs for them in one of the their Cup runs.

He's produced in the playoffs whenever he's been there, at a point rate comparable to Charlie McAvoy and much higher than Hampus Lindholm. They're far better players, but they are far better compensated for the 2024 season.

If they are keeping Forbort, I don't see the downside to replacing Connor Clifton with a player that can keep the puck out of Forbort's end, rather than run around trying to chase players who have just sped past Forbort. Sticking someone like Gudas with Forbort should be a theoretical disaster, much like if the Panthers paired him with Staal.

This kind of move - if it works, you don't have to upgrade that spot in March. If it doesn't, well, there weren't any can't miss types passed over anyway.

That’s exactly it…even if Shattenkirk is completely washed up and none of the young kids seize the spot then what do they have to trade to acquire a bottom pair guy at the deadline if they’re fighting for a playoff spot? A 4th?

And it’s not like they’re passing over can’t-miss guys like you say. Everybody at that term and dollar value are going to have their warts- and honestly Shattenkirk may have fewer than most players who sign at 1 yr/1 mill. Far from perfect in his own end but nobody is at that price unfortunately, and stylistically he *should* fit with Forbort. And he will QB PP2.

I could also see that pairing being a total disaster though lol