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Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk

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Machinehead said:
If you don't think Shattenkirk is better defensively today than Pionk and Staal, you're lost at sea.
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Pionk was out of his league playing top pairing. But yes, I think he is better defensively than Shattenkirk. Staal? Just for pure defense? From what I saw, it was not really all that far apart.

But again, this has nothing to do with Pionk or Staal. This has everything to do with how Shattenkirk and only Shattenkirk plays defensively.
 
romba said:
@Off Sides As you said you can’t take anyone’s quote at face value in sports or anywhere really, unless the person is emotional and speaking without thinking.

I’m sure Dolan and everyone in the organization are talking about making the playoffs as an internal goal but realistically they also understand there’s a better than even chance we won’t sniff the 8th seed even when it hasn’t showered for 2 months.
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While that is possible, I then have to question whether or not I take his other quotes at face value, the ones where he talks about having a plan and such.
 
True Blue said:
Believe it or not, there are people who care if he is poor defensively. Calling him top-20 defenseman is akin to saying that that on two third of the teams in the league, he is top pairing. Is this what you believe?

What statements have been made that support such a notion?
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yes a 50-60 point defensemen is a top pairing guy in my opinion

just read half the posts on this thread....he is not poor defensively, he is average defensively
 
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Rangers in 7 said:
yes a 50-60 point defensemen is a top pairing guy in my opinion
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What other top pairing guys have to get sheltered and hid from defensive zone draws or are kept out of closing minutes of close games?
just read half the posts on this thread....he is not poor defensively, he is average defensively
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Those statements, like mine, are opinions. I believe he is poor defensively.
 
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True Blue said:
What other top pairing guys have to get sheltered and hid from defensive zone draws or are kept out of closing minutes of close games?
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why does a top pairing guy have to be a standout defender? i dont get the correlation, NHL network before the season started had him as the 15th best defensemen in the NHL, in comparison McD was 17th.....so my opinion is shared by plenty

to be fair in my opinion he is more then capable of handling defensive zone draws
 
Machinehead said:
The point is, people whine about Shattenkirk not being able to play a shutdown role when the players we have playing that role are significantly worse.
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While that's a sound argument that I can agree with, personally, it's not about Shattenkirk not being able to play a shutdown role in his own zone. It's him being downright bad in his own zone, that's the problem, at this time. What point is there in having a multimillion dollar offensive defenseman, if the defense is collapsing around him?

I hope a new coach can somewhat help this. If he produces 50 points and helps the offense in a big way, sure, it's not his fault he's so one dimensional. It's just a weird player to have on a rebuilding team, he's a Phil Kessel in Toronto instead of Pittsburgh. It's a waste of cap space and resources.

Let's just say I'm sceptical. Not about Shattenkirk, because he's a very good offensive defenseman, it's the situation he and the team is currently in. Now is that his fault? No, I've repeatedly said it's not. I like puck moving defensemen. Is it his fault the defensive line is weak, to say the least? No.

Can he teach other D-men some puck skills? Keep him. Can he not? Trade him. He's a world class complementary player, but he doesn't have much to complement. And if he's downright awesome and proves all my scepticism wrong? I would be totally fine with that, I would be very happy about it.

I can understand it could be reasonable to take a chance and keep him, to see where this team ends up, but on paper, it'll be very weak. Unless a miracle happens and they do a Vegas, chances are slim. Ok, I'll shut up about my scepticism, he signed at a discount (allegedly) and if he wants to stay here, so be it.
 
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Off Sides said:
While that is possible, I then have to question whether or not I take his other quotes at face value, the ones where he talks about having a plan and such.
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Now you’re gettin it lol....question EVERYTHING.

They definitely have a plan, whether that plan jibes with what they’re saying and/or what the fan base wants, is a completely different story.
 
romba said:
Now you’re gettin it lol....question EVERYTHING.

They definitely have a plan, whether that plan jibes with what they’re saying and/or what the fan base wants, is a completely different story.
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I honestly don't think it's really a plan at all, the plan changes depending on the circumstances. If it's draft time they want to draft, UFA time they want them, if they are decent and it's rental time they want that, if they stink they want to sell, so on and so forth.
 
Rangers in 7 said:
why does a top pairing guy have to be a standout defender? i dont get the correlation, NHL network before the season started had him as the 15th best defensemen in the NHL, in comparison McD was 17th.....so my opinion is shared by plenty
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I actually do not believe that he needs to be standout. But I do believe that he cannot be a defensive liability. Your top pairing defensemen usually play against the opposition's top lines. That has not been the way that Shattenkirk has been used in his career. On any team that he has been on. IMO, with good reason.
 
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True Blue said:
I actually do not believe that he needs to be standout. But I do believe that he cannot be a defensive liability. Your top pairing defensemen usually play against the opposition's top lines. That has not been the way that Shattenkirk has been used in his career. On any team that he has been on. IMO, with good reason.
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agree to disagree...i dont think he is as much of a liability as many of you make him out to be, he is competent at this level

is he going to be able to shut down crosby or ovechkin shift after shift? no but hes still a top defensemen in the league whether he is on a "top pair" or "2nd pair"
 
Rangers in 7 said:
yes a 50-60 point defensemen is a top pairing guy in my opinion

just read half the posts on this thread....he is not poor defensively, he is average defensively
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No, hes poor without the puck and overall defensively. No need to sugarcoat it. In the emerging age of advanced stats, people like to conflate the definition of defensive play. The newer narrative is that if you're driving offense and not spending as much time in the defensive zone, that your defense is fine. That's a different debate.

But if you're examining Shattenkirk's play on the defensive side of the puck it's....not good.
 
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Bleed Ranger Blue said:
No, hes poor without the puck and overall defensively. No need to sugarcoat it. In the emerging age of advanced stats, people like to conflate the definition of defensive play. The newer narrative is that if you're driving offense and not spending as much time in the defensive zone, that your defense is fine. That's a different debate.

But if you're examining Shattenkirk's play on the defensive side of the puck it's....not good.
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listen you can have your own opinions on him.....ive played the game for 25 years and in my opinion hes not horrible in the defensive zone without the puck, in a man to man system like the one we employed last year it was tougher for him, i still think in todays nhl he is average defensively

funny thing and maybe its just a side note but the way the NHL is getting smaller and faster its getting extremely tough for nhl d men to control the forwards playing.....10 years ago with the ability to clutch and grab you would probably safely assume that shatty is solid in his own end, especially considering his skating is better then that of most forwards still playing in the nhl today, but i digress

i still think in todays game he is an ok defensemen in his own zone, hes never going to be mcd in his prime but hes no matt gilroy in is own end no matter what people try to tell me
 
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The problem I had with Shattenkirk was his one in ones. Getting beat wide was a regular occurrence. Maybe with a real defensive scheme, he'll be exposed less.
 
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