Chimpradamus
Registered User
About what? And time zones you know. You want Shattenkirk as a complementary defenseman, not as your #1 D. Maybe he can play better under a good, defensive coach in the own zone, who knows? But I'm sceptical.
Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
- Start date
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
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Dude is one of the best offensive defensemen in the entire league, took a huge discount to stay here, played well before his knee completely disintegrated, and we're still finding ways to complain about him.
Two things stand out to me: 1) he won't have to be our 1D next season considering there's this kid called Brady Skjei that's been given that role since the McDonagh deal. I don't see any reason that trend won't continue, barring some wild trade Gorton has up his sleeve, and 2) the PK complaints - we were f***ing 10th in the league last year, and that number only dipped near the end of the season where we gave up a bunch of PP goals against in meaningless games. Other than that, we were comfortably in the 4-7 range for most of the season. The PK was basically about the only thing we did correctly all season.
Two things stand out to me: 1) he won't have to be our 1D next season considering there's this kid called Brady Skjei that's been given that role since the McDonagh deal. I don't see any reason that trend won't continue, barring some wild trade Gorton has up his sleeve, and 2) the PK complaints - we were f***ing 10th in the league last year, and that number only dipped near the end of the season where we gave up a bunch of PP goals against in meaningless games. Other than that, we were comfortably in the 4-7 range for most of the season. The PK was basically about the only thing we did correctly all season.
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Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Well said. But for some of the ignorant, his contract somehow runs for the next "eternity" all while they don't complain about players that they fanboy over who have similar contracts. It's comical, man. It's like clockwork.Sometimes folks should just not speak. Chimp is at one of those points. He really should just shut his mouth if he's going to spout off such garbage and get called out by practically every single person. Just incredibly ignorant and hypocritical.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Shattenkirk won't have to take hard minutes. We'll have Pionk doing that and getting annihilated, but that's better somehow.
Chimpradamus
Registered User
Yeah, so apparently, the ideas I've read so far are Skjei and maybe Pionk (maybe Staal?) are going to get plastered by other teams' top lines, but it's fine that we have a close to a $7m defensemen who has to play sheltered minutes, because he's not a top 2 defenseman. And because of this, I am "ignorant and talk bullshit", according to some, especially because I think Lundqvist is a whole other player than Shattenkirk on this team, for a number of reasons. When Lundqvist is the backup, then we can talk, if he doesn't retire by then. When Shattenkirk plays top line minutes and does it well, then we can talk about him being paid for playing top line minute hockey.
Shattenkirk is not a defenseman you want to have on a rebuild team, you need a strong team core to play him effectively. Apparently that opinion makes me somewhat of an idiot, according to some very opiniated posters, that I don't think highly of, considering their weird methods of arguing.
Inferno
Registered User
Since av took over has any defenseman actually looked good the entire time?
Stralman for sure...then McD for large stretches...and...thats it?
Staal Boyle girardi Holden shatty a.d.a. skjei mdz klein...ao many defenseman have looked ordinary to downright awful for huge stretches with our atrocious coach.
Stralman for sure...then McD for large stretches...and...thats it?
Staal Boyle girardi Holden shatty a.d.a. skjei mdz klein...ao many defenseman have looked ordinary to downright awful for huge stretches with our atrocious coach.
silverfish
got perma'd
Inferno
Registered User
to me? It's 65 coaching 35 personnel.
Really bad system that makes everyone look worse than they actually are.
Chimpradamus
Registered User
Vigneault would probably succeed at making Doughty and Karlsson paired together look like they barely know how to play hockey, so yes, I give Shattenkirk some slack, especially when he had a troubled knee. But, he has never - and I mean never - been known for being a guy you want defending your own net. Not in Colorado, not in St Louis, not in Washington and probably not here either. I don't know how a coaching change will help him defend much better, while being the highest paid D-man on a severely depleted defensive roster.
So it has also been brought up Shattenkirk is a great corsi player. Yes, of course you're a great corsi player when you're playing sheltered minutes with alot of offensive zone starts, while being a one dimensional offensive defenseman. Having Shattenkirk on a rebuild team feels like having a Ferrari, while eating noodles and living in a shack.
I agree. And frankly am not sure what the hoopla is about here. Why is it an issue to say that in one's opinion, he is not a good defensive player? I am not saying that he has no spot on the team, but he is hardly a first paring guy. Those type of players do not need sheltering.
Agreed that playing defense under AV would make Larry Robinson look poor, but that makes good players look bad and bad players look worse.
Shattenkirk can definitely help the team. He can be a big help on the power play, an area in which this team has sorely needed help for a long time. But he is NOT a player you want out there in the waning minutes of a game, defending a one goal lead. He is not a player who you really want out there during defensive draws and he is not a player you want out there if the opposition's top offensive players are on the ice. Or so is my opinion. And that has absolutely nothing to do with his contract.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
- 9,755
- 5,585
How sure are we that the Rangers are rebuilding with Shattenkirk, or even rebuilding in general beyond this draft?
While we may be assuming it would be Pionk getting the higher share of 5on5 minutes, I'm thinking they may be adding a RD in there somewhere.
Maybe they sign someone, maybe they trade for him, maybe they are putting eggs in the Smith basket, but I am doubting they are going to go with the D as it was at seasons end while adding in only Shattenkirk off injury.
Does not mean I think that is the right way for them to go about things, more so I think they will be flicking the switch from rebuild to compete post this upcoming draft. Not that I think they will really compete for anything beyond a possible first round playoff exit, but to me that feels more like what the Rangers have always done.
While we may be assuming it would be Pionk getting the higher share of 5on5 minutes, I'm thinking they may be adding a RD in there somewhere.
Maybe they sign someone, maybe they trade for him, maybe they are putting eggs in the Smith basket, but I am doubting they are going to go with the D as it was at seasons end while adding in only Shattenkirk off injury.
Does not mean I think that is the right way for them to go about things, more so I think they will be flicking the switch from rebuild to compete post this upcoming draft. Not that I think they will really compete for anything beyond a possible first round playoff exit, but to me that feels more like what the Rangers have always done.
That is, but for one reason or another I have a feeling that Gorton embarked on a true rebuilding path.
Yeah. That group is headed to the hockey HOF now that they've gotten away from AV.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Can't wait for a full season of "Hurrrr we don't pay him to score goals! we pay him to defend them!"
Why are you so insistent on Shattenkirk becoming a player that he's not instead of imploring the Rangers to sure up their defense both from a personnel and system standpoint? If healthy, Shattenkirk is a powerplay QB that can put up 50+ points a season. Theres a lot of value in that no matter where the team is in the course of a rebuild.
Seems like you are projecting the plummeting personnel talent on the blueline entirely on him, which isn't very fair.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
In the context of blasting Shattenkirk, it is ridiculous, but lets not sugarcoat that this team could use a few guys that know how to take care of business in their own end.
Rangers in 7
Registered User
because they can continue to use the narrative that shatty is horrible defensively when in truth so were the other 5 defensemen on the team last year...if he stays healthy hes a top 20-25 dmen in the NHL....who cares if he is average defensively
i swear some on this board would rather we have 6 dan girardi's that score 10 points a year then have shattenkirk even on this team
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
- 9,755
- 5,585
The Dolan quote
If that is truly his feelings, he does not understand that trying to build a team that is just good enough to sneak into the playoffs for next season is counterproductive towards building an eventual Cup winner.
It's unlikely they are sneaking into the playoffs with Shattenkirk, Pionk, Skjei, Staal, ADA, Gilmour, Smith, Kampfer as their D core. If they do not sneak into the playoffs, does the team missing two consecutive playoffs indicate to Dolan this rebuild may be on a path towards taking forever?
It's possible he mentioned the playoffs more as salesmen speak, please still renew your seats sort of thing, but taking that quote at face value has me doubting there will be a lot of patience. If I were the GM and my owner said that, I'd probably be at least half focused on making a roster I thought could make the playoffs even if I did really believe the only way to eventually win a Cup was through a more diligent process, a process that could include say trading Shattenkirk away from a team who is rebuilding in earnest.
Rangers in 7
Registered User
he was never going to come out and say hey everyone we are going to just be a horrible team for the next two seasons
also why does a rebuilding team have to trade away every player who is any good.....for the 100th time i dont think trading shattenkirk away does us any good
we are NOT going to have an entire team under the age of 25 people, that just isnt going to happen
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
The point is, people whine about Shattenkirk not being able to play a shutdown role when the players we have playing that role are significantly worse.
romba
Registered User
@Off Sides As you said you can’t take anyone’s quote at face value in sports or anywhere really, unless the person is emotional and speaking without thinking.
I’m sure Dolan and everyone in the organization are talking about making the playoffs as an internal goal but realistically they also understand there’s a better than even chance we won’t sniff the 8th seed even when it hasn’t showered for 2 months.
I’m sure Dolan and everyone in the organization are talking about making the playoffs as an internal goal but realistically they also understand there’s a better than even chance we won’t sniff the 8th seed even when it hasn’t showered for 2 months.
Believe it or not, there are people who care if he is poor defensively. Calling him top-20 defenseman is akin to saying that that on two third of the teams in the league, he is top pairing. Is this what you believe?
What statements have been made that support such a notion?
I do not recall anyone complaining about him not playing a shutdown role.
What other players on the Rangers are worse defensively? Gilmour? O'Gara? I do not even know if they are legit NHLers yet. But other players defensive issues have nothing to do with discussing Shattenkirk's own issues.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
If you don't think Shattenkirk is better defensively today than Pionk and Staal, you're lost at sea.
