Confirmed with Link: Keith Jones actually set to be named real life part-time President of Hockey Operations, Danny Briere full-time GM

[Rebels57]

The Islanders, another once proud franchise with twice as many Cup wins, went 21 years without winning a Playoff series.

The Flyers are staring down the barrel of another similarly putrid period of their history. They are already 3 years in, with no end in sight. Reaching 5 years is a sure thing, reaching 10 years is likely, and i'm not going to rule out 20.

 

[deadhead]

Sakic actually came in above the level and worked his way down. He was an alternate governor, then VP of hockey ops who named himself GM.

Sakic was an advisor for two years (alternative governor was more a glad handing position for a former star) then given the reins - so he had less experience than Briere when he took over.

They didn't just decide on Briere, they've been grooming him for years - I doubt Fletcher was happy when he was named assistant GM b/c he could see the handwriting on the wall - but it gave Briere a year to watch everyone (scouts, Flahr, etc.) do their jobs first hand. For the last year, it was when, not if, they were going to fire Fletcher. The TDL fiasco just accelerated the timeline.

That doesn't mean Briere can do the job, but he must have really impressed some Comcast executives for them to grease the skids for him. That suggests he's bright and articulate.

I think being a long time veteran is a plus IF the individual is smart and observant, because Briere saw a number of HCs and GMs in action, and also played on both rebuilding teams and playoff contenders. There's a lot to be learned if you keep your eyes and ears open. And he's shown he understands analytics, but has the playing experience to put them in perspective.

Anyone you hire to preside over a rebuild was going to be a gamble, I'm not sure Briere is the worse choice.

 

[Redpath]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But I think most posters are looking at it from what they want, instead of Hilferty's perspective.

Hilerty's perspective is Torts and Briere are in charge.

I agree with Hilferty. I don't want Doug Wilson or Scott Mellanby as the de facto GM. I want Torts and Briere making decisions.

No one thinks Brendan Shanahan is the de facto GM in Toronto. He's just Kyle Dubas' boss. Kyle Dubas makes the decisions. Brendan Shanahan holds him accountable in executing the organization's plan.

That is the structure we should have been going with to usher in a new era. Instead we made the President a glorified spokesperson.

 

[TheKingPin]

All the "real GM" hires would be retreads. We've tried that, we've also tried novices.
Zito and Sakic weren't "real GMs" when they were hired.
Seems it's less about formal experience and more about finding someone who's smart.
We'll find out if Briere is "smart."

What?

Zito was a lawyer. Started his own successful sports agency. Then was an AHL GM for years.

 

[tucson83]

Tortorella told us he wants to pursue 10 goal PK specialists instead of talent. If Briere agrees then the team is f***ed.

Tortorella was given opportunities to get younger and faster and he refused them. Given many chances to develop young players, he refused to do that too. His refusal to work with them may have helped because they could be left to their own devices rather than the team's, but he hates working with young players. That's what he said, and players confirm he doesn't bother. He's not who you think he is.

you havent given him any chances, you were complaining about him from the minute he was hired.

 

[GKJ]

you havent given him any chances, you were complaining about him from the minute he was hired.

This organization must earn their chances. They are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I assure everyone, it is not a coincidence that

1) The new president will not have any power to remove the advisors from Hockey Ops, and
2) The new president is the last person who would ever even dream of doing so anyway.

Nothing has changed. Hilferty is more of the same. Literally, even more of the same since those people are all his old heroes and he's starstruck by them based on his revolting sycophancy in every public statement. He always brings them up. Always.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

The Islanders, another once proud franchise with twice as many Cup wins, went 21 years without winning a Playoff series.

The Flyers are staring down the barrel of another similarly putrid period of their history. They are already 3 years in, with no end in sight. Reaching 5 years is a sure thing, reaching 10 years is likely, and i'm not going to rule out 20.

Yup. So many fans think the Flyers past success insulates them from a decades long run of failure. They just don't understand that you can't quickly buy your way back into relevancy like you could in 1999. It's been 20 years and they still are in denial of the realities of a salary cap era.

Other franchise with better historical accomplishments then the Flyers have gone into those decade+ periods of failure. No reason it can't happen here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

you havent given him any chances, you were complaining about him from the minute he was hired.

Because he has a long career that tells me who he is. Also, he immediately told us publicly that he is exactly that person and he refuses to change or adapt or learn, and then all his actions last season confirmed everything I know and everything he said.

It's simple.

 

[deadhead]

Honest to God, my biggest reason for not liking this decision is the way torts talks and explains himself and his thoughts on the game today, he's stated several times, he doesn't like overly skilled players, he prefers grinders and thats all fine and well, you do need some players who can do some work in the dirty areas, but you're not winning without skill and creativity, you need skill and to take chances to create offense, can't just skate it in, shoot and score and be effective, can't really win with a dump and chase method, you give up the puck entirely to much, you need a solid mix of skill and dirty work, but torts makes people believe he's incapable of incorporating that kind of system, because of the shit he says and does, now I get it, you want players to play responsible, you want solid effort, you want 2 way play, but like I said you need skill, it's a different league completely since he's won a cup, it's a different league from when Jones played, hell it's even vastly different since briere's last game, there is really no reason for Deslauriers type of player in this league, if he was more like a 4th liner of the kings cup days that's different, they were physical and sound defensively, but he's not that, now I give credit where credit is due, he's made a believer out of me with Tippett, everyone knows I hated him since he was traded for giroux, because I thought he was a big fat bust, but I've been wrong, and I'll admit I was wrong if these guys build a proper team, but with the things they say and do, it's extremely hard to get behind them, because it really seems like the game has passed them bye, there I zero reason for an enforcer to be an 82 game staple for a team in this day and age when fighting has started going the way of the dodo birds

I'm not looking at fighting or arguing about it, but if you're wondering why so many are against what's happening this is why, they also say they have a plan, but so did the last group, and there weren't any, it seems like they're hoping for a miracle like drafting the next giroux with a middle to late pick to change their fortune

Actually, Torts has NEVER said that, I mean he's had St Louis, Panarin, Atkinson, etc. St Louis loves the guy.

John Tortorella's connection with Martin St. Louis runs deep | FOX Sports

Martin St. Louis requested to have Blue Jackets' coach present on his big night

www.foxsports.com

This is a fantasy that some have concocted around here.

What Torts does do is require skilled players to be responsible defensively, whereas a lot of HCs take the "if he scores I'll put up with his cherry picking and slacking off" approach, Torts doesn't have a different standard for stars. He doesn't ask them to be physical (he's said he expects Frost to get back and stick check) but he does demand they back check and play defense. He tends to give them carte blanche in the O-zone. The "Michigan" comments I think are more about kids needing to master fundamentals before they get cute, like NBA players focusing on dunks rather than defensive positioning.

Deslauriers will not be around in a few years, he's the 12th forward who plays limited minutes on a team that struggled to field 9 NHL caliber forwards last year. The playoffs haven't changed as much as the regular season, more physical, closer checking. While you don't need a Deslauriers, you do need a bottom six that can forecheck and harass scoring lines.

 

[Embiid]

Every single Comcast executive is going to be just like Scott and Hilferty. You have to be like that to climb that high in that shitty company. The Flyers are doomed until they are sold, which might never happen for all we know.

Comcast as a corporate entity is the embodiment of Bill Wirtz

Flashback: Chicago Blackhawks fans boo the late Bill Wirtz during a pre-game memorial

Safe to say, fans let their feelings of the late Hawks owner known.

www.hockeyfeed.com

 

[Starat327]

White_Knight76 has entered the chat.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Actually, Torts has NEVER said that, I mean he's had St Louis, Panarin, Atkinson, etc. St Louis loves the guy.

John Tortorella's connection with Martin St. Louis runs deep | FOX Sports

Martin St. Louis requested to have Blue Jackets' coach present on his big night

www.foxsports.com

This is a fantasy that some have concocted around here.

What Torts does do is require skilled players to be responsible defensively, whereas a lot of HCs take the "if he scores I'll put up with his cherry picking and slacking off" approach, Torts doesn't have a different standard for stars. He doesn't ask them to be physical (he's said he expects Frost to get back and stick check) but he does demand they back check and play defense. He tends to give them carte blanche in the O-zone. The "Michigan" comments I think are more about kids needing to master fundamentals before they get cute, like NBA players focusing on dunks rather than defensive positioning.

Deslauriers will not be around in a few years, he's the 12th forward who plays limited minutes on a team that struggled to field 9 NHL caliber forwards last year. The playoffs haven't changed as much as the regular season, more physical, closer checking. While you don't need a Deslauriers, you do need a bottom six that can forecheck and harass scoring lines.

Torts said it on live national TV, when zegras pulled of the Michigan, and st.louis was a very solid 2 way player, he wasn't overly skilled, he was a beautiful passer however

I'm all for some solid fore checkers on the bottom 6, but they also can't be backholes on offense and abysmal on defense either, Deslauriers was an example, macewens and Deslauriers of the nhl should be in the ahl, and should not be given almost 2 million per year at 4 years, that's horrible cap and asset management

So it's not fantasy if he's stated this himself, you keep pretending he hasn't said these things, but he has, he may not have meant it the way it came out, but he said it, that fact does not change, and let's just say for arguments sake he didn't mean it that way, the optics aren't good, and doesn't give any confidence that he can do the job, and just because he developed st.louis doesn't mean he can develop a bunch of players well

You guys asked why so many people are against what the organization is and has been doing and I gave you some reasons, and then you pretend what has been said just doesn't exist for some reason

 

[ponder719]

you havent given him any chances, you were complaining about him from the minute he was hired.

If a lion says "stick your head in my mouth, and I'll eat you," consistently over a 25 year period, why in the hell would I stick my head in its mouth "to give it a chance"?

 

[BiggE]

Honestly, all kidding aside, it’s hard to give a damn anymore. The franchise, since Pronger took that puck to the face in 2011, has spent over a decade making one bad move after another. So now we’re all supposed to be confident that some collaboration of Hilferty, Jones, Camillo, Briere and the God Emperor Torts is going to turn things around? Please, if you believe that then go ask Casey Anthony to watch your kids, and have Bill Cosby mix you a drink while I sell you some prime real estate in the Florida Everglades.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually, Torts has NEVER said that, I mean he's had St Louis, Panarin, Atkinson, etc. St Louis loves the guy.

John Tortorella's connection with Martin St. Louis runs deep | FOX Sports

Martin St. Louis requested to have Blue Jackets' coach present on his big night

www.foxsports.com

This is a fantasy that some have concocted around here.

What Torts does do is require skilled players to be responsible defensively, whereas a lot of HCs take the "if he scores I'll put up with his cherry picking and slacking off" approach, Torts doesn't have a different standard for stars. He doesn't ask them to be physical (he's said he expects Frost to get back and stick check) but he does demand they back check and play defense. He tends to give them carte blanche in the O-zone. The "Michigan" comments I think are more about kids needing to master fundamentals before they get cute, like NBA players focusing on dunks rather than defensive positioning.

Deslauriers will not be around in a few years, he's the 12th forward who plays limited minutes on a team that struggled to field 9 NHL caliber forwards last year. The playoffs haven't changed as much as the regular season, more physical, closer checking. While you don't need a Deslauriers, you do need a bottom six that can forecheck and harass scoring lines.

Tortorella literally said he wants 10-12 goal PK specialists. Not skilled players like Gaudreau. Those words came out of his mouth.

You seriously have absolutely no understanding of who he is even though he's openly told you. Do you just ignore him because it ruins your fantasy?

 

[ponder719]

Do you just ignore him because it ruins your fantasy?

Hold this truth tight. Never let it go. It will guide the way in dealing with deady.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sakic was an advisor for two years (alternative governor was more a glad handing position for a former star) then given the reins - so he had less experience than Briere when he took over.

They didn't just decide on Briere, they've been grooming him for years - I doubt Fletcher was happy when he was named assistant GM b/c he could see the handwriting on the wall - but it gave Briere a year to watch everyone (scouts, Flahr, etc.) do their jobs first hand. For the last year, it was when, not if, they were going to fire Fletcher. The TDL fiasco just accelerated the timeline.

That doesn't mean Briere can do the job, but he must have really impressed some Comcast executives for them to grease the skids for him. That suggests he's bright and articulate.

I think being a long time veteran is a plus IF the individual is smart and observant, because Briere saw a number of HCs and GMs in action, and also played on both rebuilding teams and playoff contenders. There's a lot to be learned if you keep your eyes and ears open. And he's shown he understands analytics, but has the playing experience to put them in perspective.

Anyone you hire to preside over a rebuild was going to be a gamble, I'm not sure Briere is the worse choice.

Briere being taught the trade by this team is the entire problem. All he's learned is how to fail. That's all he will do.

 

[Redpath]

I’m sure Keith Jones can and will be a fine PR guy for the Flyers. But that’s not we needed. We need a sparkling new President who can shepherd the Flyers out of the dark ages and advise Briere through his first GM stint.

Instead, we’ve put all our eggs into the Briere basket. I actually truly am excited to see what Briere as an individual does, but not insulating him with a traditional President has zero benefits. A totally unnecessary choice.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No one thinks Brendan Shanahan is the de facto GM in Toronto. He's just Kyle Dubas' boss. Kyle Dubas makes the decisions. Brendan Shanahan holds him accountable in executing the organization's plan.

That is the structure we should have been going with to usher in a new era. Instead we made the President a glorified spokesperson.

GB can't actually defend the team on its own merits, so this is what he does. He just makes things up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m sure Keith Jones can and will be a fine PR guy for the Flyers. But that’s not we needed. We need a sparkling new President who can shepherd the Flyers out of the dark ages and advise Briere through his first GM stint.

Instead, we’ve put all our eggs into the Briere basket. I actually truly am excited to see what Briere as an individual does, but not insulating him with a traditional President has zero benefits. A totally unnecessary choice.

We need a President who leads reform and cleans house.

Hilferty listened to the people who need cleaning and they've saved their own asses again.

 

[ajgoal]

I wish I had the passion for the team to type out all the things I see wrong with the direction since the Fletcher firing. I don't. That's the whole problem, and it's only their fault. I used to plan my week around their games - no other team got that amount of attention from me. Now the only reason I know when they're playing is that I like chatting with people here.

I've worked in organizations that are set up the way the Flyers are. They've never been good ones.

 

[BiggE]

Ownership doesn’t care.

Once you grasp that, the rest all makes sense. As long as Gritty merch keeps selling and the building is at least 2/3s full, Comcast is happy. The stadium is the important thing to them, the hockey team is a glorified afterthought

 

[Tripod]

Here is my only positive takeaway....I like Briere. And ultimately his trades and signings will dictate how he does on his job. If he does dumb shit like Fletch....like pay to remove Ghost only to pay heavily for Risto as his replacement, then his fate is sealed.

But if he comes in and replicates "some" Hextall moves like getting a 3rd for Rinaldo, 3rd for McGinn, etc... then I will be at least impressed in getting good value for trash. He can dictate his outcome. Of course other GM's might try and take advantage if this rookie GM and look who Danny has surrounding him to bounce things off of. Not good.

Either way, not paying for NHL Center Ice to watch this team next year.

 

[BernieParent]

Briere being taught the trade by this team is the entire problem. All he's learned is how to fail. That's all he will do.

Brière may be surprisingly good, but the org has eliminated any checks and balances, any contingencies, any training wheels. He is tasked with adding talent without the necessary assets, building a roster that meets the coach's demands, and doing something the franchise hasn't done in more than a decade with the same blunt instruments tugging on the steering wheel. And that is assuming he isn't in lockstep with these voice who have brought us to the pit of despair in the first place.