Proposal: Kasperi Kapanen for Brandon Montour (Keep it civil)

[go4hockey]

Is it? Is it really outlandish to place Montour 4th behind Dermott, Zaitsev, Nielson and ahead of Carrick on a possible d depth chart?

Yes it is outlandish. Montour would be listed above Dermontt,Nielson and Carrick and that's not really even close to me. But keep looking thru your Leaf Blue glasses.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Kappy JUST turned 20 played the entire season at 19 years old.And he's a two way winger Montour is a offensive dman. Just to give more context.

 

[Atomos2]

Perhaps, but not considering the positions they play seems equally misleading.

Montour - Defenseman
Kapanen - Forward
Leivo - Forward

You're having a PPG battle vs. a defenseman with two forwards.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match here, but Montour was a first team All-Star defenseman as a rookie, and was second in D scoring. Not rookie D scoring, but overall D scoring. It's quite obvious that his numbers and results, relative to his peers, is more impressive.

T.J Brennan was a defenceman who scored more points than all but two forwards in the AHL this season and won the Eddie shore trophy for best defenceman and he was still a piss poor defenceman in the AHL and even worse in the NHL. Those numbers mean very little except that it gives off the illusion that these defencemen sacrifice defence for offense.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

T.J Brennan was a defenceman who scored more points than all but two forwards in the AHL this season and won the Eddie shore trophy for best defenceman and he was still a piss poor defenceman in the AHL and even worse in the NHL. Those numbers mean very little except that it gives off the illusion that these defencemen sacrifice defence for offense.

TJ Brennan is 27 and has played in the AHL since 2009
Montour just turned 22, and was first team all AHL as a rookie.

 

[lindholmie]

T.J Brennan was a defenceman who scored more points than all but two forwards in the AHL this season and won the Eddie shore trophy for best defenceman and he was still a piss poor defenceman in the AHL and even worse in the NHL. Those numbers mean very little except that it gives off the illusion that these defencemen sacrifice defence for offense.

except that this season was montours first AHL season. leafs fans are hilarious haha

 

[Sojourn]

T.J Brennan was a defenceman who scored more points than all but two forwards in the AHL this season and won the Eddie shore trophy for best defenceman and he was still a piss poor defenceman in the AHL and even worse in the NHL. Those numbers mean very little except that it gives off the illusion that these defencemen sacrifice defence for offense.

You're comparing an AHL rookie, and prospect, to a player who is now a career AHL'er.

That's some serious grasping at straws there.

 

[Atomos2]

TJ Brennan is 27 and has played in the AHL since 2009
Montour just turned 22, and was first team all AHL as a rookie.

So what? Brennan was 24 when he first won the Eddie Shore trophy putting up 72 pts in 76 gms. So the difference between them is just as significant as comparing Montour to Kapanen who are two years apart in age. And the point still stands as putting up pts in he AHL isn't that significant as a defenceman.

It's not like Duncan Keith or Brent Burns were putting up eye popping numbers when they were in the minors.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

So what? Brennan was 24 when he first won the Eddie Shore trophy putting up 72 pts in 76 gms. So the difference between them is just as significant as comparing Montour to Kapanen who are two years apart in age. And the point still stands as putting up pts in he AHL isn't that significant as a defenceman.

It's not like Duncan Keith or Brent Burns were putting up eye popping numbers when they were in the minors.

Were in no rush to move Montour, hes done great every league he has gone too, why trade him for anything less then a massive overpayment?

 

[Sojourn]

So what? Brennan was 24 when he first won the Eddie Shore trophy putting up 72 pts in 76 gms. So the difference between them is just as significant as comparing Montour to Kapanen who are two years apart in age. And the point still stands as putting up pts in he AHL isn't that significant as a defenceman.

It's not like Duncan Keith or Brent Burns were putting up eye popping numbers when they were in the minors.

The point is that TJ Brennan never became more than that. We know the outcome. Montour isn't at that point yet. He's an NHL prospect, and a good one. His goal is to make the NHL and be a good player. TJ Brennan was not able to do that. You seem to be taking that as evidence that Montour won't.

Edit: Keith didn't put up eye popping numbers initially in the NHL either. He was a late bloomer.

 

[Atomos2]

The point is that TJ Brennan never became more than that. We know the outcome. Montour isn't at that point yet. He's an NHL prospect, and a good one. His goal is to make the NHL and be a good player. TJ Brennan was not able to do that. You seem to be taking that as evidence that Montour won't.

Kapanen and Leipsic are doing the same thing too. I'm just scoffing at the points comparison. It's not that significant, if at all.

 

[dracom]

So what? Brennan was 24 when he first won the Eddie Shore trophy putting up 72 pts in 76 gms. So the difference between them is just as significant as comparing Montour to Kapanen who are two years apart in age. And the point still stands as putting up pts in he AHL isn't that significant as a defenceman.

It's not like Duncan Keith or Brent Burns were putting up eye popping numbers when they were in the minors.

So basically, since TJ Brennan couldn't make it, that means Montour won't. Great logic

 

[Sojourn]

Kapanen and Leipsic are doing the same thing too. I'm just scoffing at the points comparison. It's not that significant, if at all.

Relative to their peers, they are less impressive. That's significant.

 

[Atomos2]

So basically, since TJ Brennan couldn't make it, that means Montour won't. Great logic

Brennan was a good AHL scorer. So is Montour. But defencemen are judged by other things as well (as you guys love to mention all the time)

 

[Sojourn]

Brennan was a good AHL scorer. So is Montour. But defencemen are judged by other things as well (as you guys love to mention all the time)

So, I suppose you know all about Montour's defensive game then.

You also know whether or not Anaheim/San Diego are trying to round him out as a player? Right?

You're coming to some pretty interesting conclusions here, and they really lack in the common sense department.

 

[Atomos2]

Relative to their peers, they are less impressive. That's significant.

Pft, that's highly subjective.

 

[Sojourn]

Pft, that's highly subjective.

Not nearly as much as you seem to be suggesting.

But that was an excellent attempt to dismiss the point.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Montour could go down the road of Brennan. But that's true for any prospect, there will always be statistical comparables that failed. That doesn't mean that the achievements are not worth something, both in themselves and as an indicator of offensive upside.

There's usually no reason to throw out useful information other than when you don't like the conclusions that they point towards, and is unwilling to consider changing your mind.

The chance that someone that does what Montour has done becomes an impactful player is good, bigger than the chance that someone that does what Nielsen, Dermott or Kapanen has done becomes an impactful player. If the odds and projections favor a prospect over another, he's likely the better prospect.

Naturally, the evaluation shouldn't end there. Kapanen for example played down the lineup a lot considering he was a teenager on a powerhouse AHL team, so raw numbers might not give an accurate picture. Likewise, an evaluation of Montour shouldn't stop with just his ability to produce at the AHL level.

The thing is that the further you scout up Montour, the more it just confirms the picture. He's an absolutely terrific young player. Incredibly smart, great skater, terrific offensive instincts. Very very good at moving the puck out of his zone. Could stand to work on his ability to win pucks, but he makes up for this a lot by reading the play very well.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm surprised people are so quick to get rid of Kapanen.

We have some good, young RHD prospects now. I'd rather see what they can do and keep Kapanen, as good as Montour is.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Kapanen and Leipsic are doing the same thing too. I'm just scoffing at the points comparison. It's not that significant, if at all.

I, myself, am not purely basing it on points, I think the fact that Montour was voted first team all AHL is the more important thing to look it.

 

[Raymoondo]

Perhaps, but not considering the positions they play seems equally misleading.

Montour - Defenseman
Kapanen - Forward
Leivo - Forward

You're having a PPG battle vs. a defenseman with two forwards.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match here, but Montour was a first team All-Star defenseman as a rookie, and was second in D scoring. Not rookie D scoring, but overall D scoring. It's quite obvious that his numbers and results, relative to his peers, is more impressive.

My point was that leaving out a significant detail will make the data look a lot more biased. Never said Kapanen/Leivo is just as good as Montour.

 

[howkie]

Kapanen and Leipsic are doing the same thing too. I'm just scoffing at the points comparison. It's not that significant, if at all.

How good is Milano then compared to kapanen, playing in the best AHL team and still scored more points.. We talking him plus some smaller add for Reilly now?

 

[4thline]

How good is Milano then compared to kapanen, playing in the best AHL team and still scored more points.. We talking him plus some smaller add for Reilly now?

Milano, Kapanen, Scherbak, Kempe, Tuch etc = all comparable level prospects.

Montour =/= Rielly



Dumb post is dumb.


The time to get Montour was last summer when he was still more of a wildcard. Keeping up that brief stint over a full season sky rockets him.. Him and Carrick were the guys that I wanted one of as undervalued (due to pedigree) offensive rhd prospects, glad we got one. Edge Montour right now, but not as big as most think. Don't underestimate the perspective impact of being "the guy" vs. sharing the load.

 

[Morgs]

I want Jacob Larsson more anyway.

Guy is going to be an absolute stud.

 

[darkwingduck]

I want Jacob Larsson more anyway.

Guy is going to be an absolute stud.

Agreed, hence you can't have him. He's our shea theodore replacement, who is our cam fowler replacement. Montour is our vatanen replacement. and vatanen isn't going anywhere.

 

[howkie]

I Think Toronto will bite their own tail with their drafting. I don´t know if they go BPA or something, but they keep avoding drafting high quality D-men, to much wingers. Im not sure if they belived they could swap some of their prospects for D-men, but with the current prices they would need to give up some of the "golden boys". We can thank Oilers for that. Everyone will point at the Hall-Larsson trade.