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Proposal: Kasperi Kapanen for Brandon Montour (Keep it civil)

22 year old Montour 12 goals 45 assists 57 points in the AHL this past season
20 year old Kapanen 9 goals 16 assists 25 points in the AHL this past season
23 year old Leivo (not expansion exempt) 17 goals 31 assists 48 points in the AHL this past season
 
TOGuy14 said:
People are pretty rough on Kapanen in here.

He was the youngest player in the entire AHL last year, not really fair to compare him to a prospect 2.5 years older than him.

Ultimately I see him being a Richard Zednik type of player. Talented but streaky.
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Kylington is younger.
 
AustonPowers said:
Is it? Is it really outlandish to place Montour 4th behind Dermott, Zaitsev, Nielson and ahead of Carrick on a possible d depth chart?
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Yes it is outlandish, Montour is a late bloomer who was a former lacrosse player, his first season in the pro's he was first team all AHL. Zaitsev might be the only one you can compare with him the other 3, no way that is pure homer right there
 
AustonPowers said:
Is it? Is it really outlandish to place Montour 4th behind Dermott, Zaitsev, Nielson and ahead of Carrick on a possible d depth chart?
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Carrick is a solid step down at the same age, and if Dermott or Nielsen was as good as Montour at the same age I'd be over the moon.

Zaitsev might be better (at least more established), but Montour is an absolutely terrific prospect. He'd be #1 or #2 for us.
 
Nithoniniel said:
Carrick is a solid step down at the same age, and if Dermott or Nielsen was as good as Montour at the same age I'd be over the moon.

Zaitsev might be better (at least more established), but Montour is an absolutely terrific prospect. He'd be #1 or #2 for us.
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That's your opinion. Mine differs. I don't see Montour as being a tier above any of Dermott, Nielsen or Zaitsev. Carrick also had a dominant ahl playoffs where he led in ppg I believe. Dermott and Nielsen will get a taste of pro hockey this season so we shall see how they respond to the challenge. Each of Dermott, Nielsen and Zaitsev have their share of accolades as well (2nd team OHL, WJC, 2nd team WHL, near ppg, 1st team KHL twice, WHC all star team...)
 
AustonPowers said:
That's your opinion. Mine differs. I don't see Montour as being a tier above any of Dermott, Nielsen or Zaitsev. Carrick also had a dominant ahl playoffs where he led in ppg I believe. Dermott and Nielsen will get a taste of pro hockey this season so we shall see how they respond to the challenge. Each of Dermott, Nielsen and Zaitsev have their share of accolades as well (2nd team OHL, WJC, 2nd team WHL, near ppg, 1st team KHL twice, WHC all star team...)
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You are correct, that's your opinion, it is just incredibly wrong, that's all.
 
KEEROLE Vatanen said:
You are correct, that's your opinion, it is just incredibly wrong, that's all.
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Glad you have a crystal ball and can speak in such definitive confidence.....they must be scrubs since you aren't familiar with them right? These are highly regarded players, your opinion doesnt change that, in fact it's irrelevant given the limited to zero amount you've watched any of them....
 
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howkie said:
Haha, really. Montour would be your best d-prospect, noone is even close. I dont really count zaitsev...
this is some of the worst homer I have ever seen.
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I mean Dermott is arguably better than Montour and Nielsen has shown insane potential.

But I would put Montour at #2 or #3 behind Dermott and Zaitsev
 
AustonPowers said:
Glad you have a crystal ball and can speak in such definitive confidence.....they must be scrubs since you aren't familiar with them right? These are highly regarded players, your opinion doesnt change that, in fact it's irrelevant given the limited to zero amount you've watched any of them....
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LeafsNation149 said:
I mean Dermott is arguably better than Montour and Nielsen has shown insane potential.

But I would put Montour at #2 or #3 behind Dermott and Zaitsev
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If Dermott steps into the AHL like Montour did then we can talk about them as comparables or equals, until then Montour has a better resume. It's not everyday a guy goes from Jr B, to first team AHL all star in about a 2 year span
 
AustonPowers said:
That's your opinion. Mine differs. I don't see Montour as being a tier above any of Dermott, Nielsen or Zaitsev. Carrick also had a dominant ahl playoffs where he led in ppg I believe. Dermott and Nielsen will get a taste of pro hockey this season so we shall see how they respond to the challenge. Each of Dermott, Nielsen and Zaitsev have their share of accolades as well (2nd team OHL, WJC, 2nd team WHL, near ppg, 1st team KHL twice, WHC all star team...)
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Carrick is a similar player to Montour at the same age while being less productive and effective despite playing on a more offensively loaded team. One playoff with a small sample size doesn't change that.

And yes, we'll have to wait for Dermott and Nielsen to see how they translate. The thing is, matching Montour would pretty much be the best case scenario in terms of translation, and it stands to reason that if they would need to outdo their statistical projections to match him, then they are probably lesser prospects.

Zaitsev is a wild card, very hard to judge. I've really liked the guy from way before we signed him, so I believe he is at least a safer bet at the moment.

Yes it's just opinions but it's not like I want Montour to be better. I'm a Leafs fan, I'm naturally biased towards the other guys. It's just that there's really strong arguments against Montour over them. He's shown higher potential at a higher level.

Nothing of that is a vote of no confidence on Dermott and Nielsen. I really like them both. It's just that Montour is that good.
 
Never heard of Montour and Kapanen is a decent player. Got to think Toronto may be getting the bad end of this deal in the OP.
 
tony d said:
Never heard of Montour and Kapanen is a decent player. Got to think Toronto may be getting the bad end of this deal in the OP.
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Dynamic offensive defenseman. Nicknamed the "Nighthawk". 13 goals and 54 assists (67 points) in 82 AHL games. AHL First All-Star Team and AHL All-Rookie Team this past season.
 
Ducks in a row said:
22 year old Montour 12 goals 45 assists 57 points in the AHL this past season
20 year old Kapanen 9 goals 16 assists 25 points in the AHL this past season
23 year old Leivo (not expansion exempt) 17 goals 31 assists 48 points in the AHL this past season
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Yes leave out the games played so KK and Leivo 's numbers look less impressive. Weird.
 
tony d said:
Never heard of Montour and Kapanen is a decent player. Got to think Toronto may be getting the bad end of this deal in the OP.
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Wow... Great logic there.


"I'm unfamiliar with that player so obviously the team with the player I know loses this deal".

Makes sense.
 
Ducks in a row said:
22 year old Montour 12 goals 45 assists 57 points in the AHL this past season
20 year old Kapanen 9 goals 16 assists 25 points in the AHL this past season
23 year old Leivo (not expansion exempt) 17 goals 31 assists 48 points in the AHL this past season
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22 year old Montour: 0.85PPG
20 year old Kapanen: 0.56PPG
23 year old Leivo: 0.94PPG

Funny how not including games played will make it seem a lot more biased huh?
 
How far away is his defensive game, from allowing him to be a top pairing, or top four D man in the NHL? Obviously he has the offensive skills.

He'd obviously be a great fit and need for the Leafs, and I fully understand why you guys are in no rush to move him.
 
Raymoondo said:
22 year old Montour: 0.85PPG
20 year old Kapanen: 0.56PPG
23 year old Leivo: 0.94PPG

Funny how not including games played will make it seem a lot more biased huh?
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Montour is a defenseman who was great offensively.

Kapanen a forward not nearly as good producer as Montour a defenseman.

Leivo a forward who is 23 and has played a lot in the AHL and produced well but not yet a NHL'er. We had Etem who produced well in the AHL and did even better we no longer have him because he wasn't good enough for us in the NHL Leivo could be the same way. If Leivo was younger like 20 things would be better.

Still doesn't look good enough for me to want to trade Montour.
 
Ducks in a row said:
Montour is a defenseman who was great offensively.

Kapanen a forward not nearly as good producer as Montour a defenseman.

Leivo a forward who is 23 and has played a lot in the AHL and produced well but not yet a NHL'er. We had Etem who produced well in the AHL and did even better we no longer have him because he wasn't good enough for us in the NHL Leivo could be the same way. If Leivo was younger like 20 things would be better.

Still doesn't look good enough for me to want to trade Montour.
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I never said Kapanen or Leivo was worth Montour. I'm objecting to your way of presenting facts. Also, when Montour was the same age as Kapanen he wasn't even playing in the AHL (or maybe a couple games). Kapanen still has plenty of time to show if he can produce points.
 
Raymoondo said:
22 year old Montour: 0.85PPG
20 year old Kapanen: 0.56PPG
23 year old Leivo: 0.94PPG

Funny how not including games played will make it seem a lot more biased huh?
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Perhaps, but not considering the positions they play seems equally misleading.

Montour - Defenseman
Kapanen - Forward
Leivo - Forward

You're having a PPG battle vs. a defenseman with two forwards.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match here, but Montour was a first team All-Star defenseman as a rookie, and was second in D scoring. Not rookie D scoring, but overall D scoring. It's quite obvious that his numbers and results, relative to his peers, is more impressive.
 
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