News Article: Karlsson and Dorion/Melnyk didn't talk after November

[Nac Mac Feegle]

And we literally called the character assassination months ago.

Don't care, not convinced.

Seriously. Besides, we have quite the history of the organization and media doing this sort of thing with several guys now.

 

[Micklebot]

Seriously. Besides, we have quite the history of the organization and media doing this sort of thing with several guys now.

I think part of it is cognitive dissonance. A person will try to make their own beliefs align with one another, so if Karlsson was a great player, and we believe him to be a great locker room presence and leader, but now he's traded and the team apparently didn't see him in the future, we need to change our beliefs to make it all make sense. One option is to believe Karlsson isn't the great locker room presence and leader we thought he was, another is to blame ownership for being unable or unwilling to afford him.

 

[JungleBeat]

And we literally called the character assassination months ago.

Don't care, not convinced.

Yup, this was bound to happen. We won’t be fooled.

#MelnykOut

 

[DueDiligence]

Yup, this was bound to happen. We won’t be fooled.

#MelnykOut

So Karlsson was fabulous on and off the ice? I sure he had his "warts" like virtually every other great player. You know there's lots of colours between black and white.

 

[Blotto71]

All you "fans" that aren't drinking the Kool-Aid, what's wrong with you?! The Kool-Aid is delicious! And refreshing! But if you are going to continue to refuse the Kool-Aid (did I mention it is delicious?), then fine, how about a different glass of Kool-Aid? Yes, it's the same Kool-Aid, but in a different glass...so...it's different! And even more delicious!! If that doesn't get you riled up, how about Kool-Aid with some fancy round ice cubes? (...wait...do we still call them ice "cubes" if they're round? Can we get a poll?!) Look, end of the day, drink the damn Kool-Aid! Plenty to go around and it will cure all these negative feelings you have about Melnyk, Dorion, the Karlsson/Turris/Spezza trades, Alfie leaving, the general poor state of the franchise brought about by a handsy owner and inept GM...all that will be left for you to do is sit back, put on your paper hat, and wait for the inevitable parade (or the mothership, Vegas has it at 6-1 that it gets here before the parade).

Mmmmmmm!! Kool-Aid!!!

I feel better already!

 

[JungleBeat]

So Karlsson was fabulous on and off the ice? I sure he had his "warts" like virtually every other great player. You know there's lots of colours between black and white.

I don’t really care tbh. Just convenient that we’re hearing about this after the trade and shit return that we got.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think part of it is cognitive dissonance. A person will try to make their own beliefs align with one another, so if Karlsson was a great player, and we believe him to be a great locker room presence and leader, but now he's traded and the team apparently didn't see him in the future, we need to change our beliefs to make it all make sense. One option is to believe Karlsson isn't the great locker room presence and leader we thought he was, another is to blame ownership for being unable or unwilling to afford him.

I always thought Karlsson did his leading on the ice. There are different types of leaders. Voice in the room . I think he had some of that but that's not what made Karlsson a great player and a great leader. I think off the ice he could be seen as a little aloof but I think he is pretty well grounded. I don't think he ever came across as a back home country boy.

 

[The Lewler]

So Karlsson was fabulous on and off the ice? I sure he had his "warts" like virtually every other great player. You know there's lots of colours between black and white.

Absolutely.

But we have gone from:

GM
"On the 8th day God created Erik Karlsson, he will never be traded."
Coach:
"He's become a tremendous leader, he does it all, on and off the ice"
Goalie:
"He's a great leader , he's amaze etc etc"

To now rumblings about how they players are happy he's gone, he wasn't perfect, he wasn't well liked on the ice / in the room etc.

All after some of the most calamitous trades and personnel decisions in franchise history backstopped by mercurial and erratic ownership involvement increasing franchise instability.

Not buying what they are selling anymore.

After every major departure in this teams history the same types of drive by character shots have appeared , almost as if conjured when most politically necessary by people that still have skin in the game locally.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Absolutely.

But we have gone from:

GM
"On the 8th day God created Erik Karlsson, he will never be traded."
Coach:
"He's become a tremendous leader, he does it all, on and off the ice"
Goalie:
"He's a great leader , he's amaze etc etc"

To now rumblings about how they players are happy he's gone, he wasn't perfect, he wasn't well liked on the ice / in the room etc.

All after some of the most calamitous trades and personnel decisions in franchise history backstopped by mercurial and erratic ownership involvement increasing franchise instability.

Not buying what they are selling anymore.

After every major departure in this teams history the same types of drive by character shots have appeared , almost as in conjured when most politically necessary.

some of them are just trying to turn the page and look more at what's happening now and in the near future. I think if you asked every player there would be a ton of respect. They are just trying to move on.

 

[Karl Prime]

Why are people getting so defensive, he's not your buddy. There has been comments from some of our key guys, not to mention the unfounded claims concerning Hoffman and his GF.

There is smoke here, but since it's EK the Ottawa Erik Karlssons fans don't want to talk about it. If it was about EM or PD these same dudes would have written 1000 posts of 'facts' by now...

Give your heads a shake, it's an interesting side topic to discuss, obviously there is something to it, and if true our team could be better this for it.... Which is better for us Ottawa Senator fans...

It's just a little hard to believe when you read those quotes from Anderson, Boucher, and Methot from the 16-17 season. They were all praising him as a great teammate and a good leader. I'm sure last season was a trying time for him and maybe he didn't handle certain things the right way, but you don't go from those quotes filled with praise straight to "the locker room was a dictatorship."

 

[The Lewler]

some of them are just trying to turn the page and look more at what's happening now and in the near future. I think if you asked every player there would be a ton of respect. They are just trying to move on.

You can move on without appearing to take a completely contrarian position to what you stated in the recent past.

 

[swiftwin]

listen to it again.

Mendes aired an interview with Anderson. Simmer then set him up with a question and Mendes said "all I'm going to say is that I've interviewed Anderson countless times on and off the record and I'll tell you this. ..he's never been happier to be an ottawa senator than he is right now "

I suppose you can interpret that any way you'd like but how I interpreted that, given the discussion was all about the EK trade, was that EK being gone was contributing to that happiness. I also interpreted it to mean Mendes wasn't going to say certain things on air

Here's my take on Karlsson in the dressing room:

There's no denying that Karlsson was by far the best player on the team in his time here. I truly believe he's a good guy, and by no means a bad influence in the locker room. However, when a single player, especially a defenseman, is that much better than everybody else (aka. God made him on the 7th day), I believe it starts to create some weird dynamics on the rest of the room.

For example, everything the team and the coaching stuff does revolves around accentuating Karlsson's skillset, which is scary because Karlsson has a very very unique skillset. The 1-3-1 Boucher implemented with is was built around Karlsson. It was built around having the LD as an anvil on the left side, and have the RD be the puck retrieval and transition player. Fantastic for Karlsson. For Ceci? Maybe not so much. Ceci would have benefited from a different system that does not put so much focus on him being the sole source of the breakout. Not only that, but Ceci was also asked to play some of the toughest minutes in the league in order to maximize Karlsson's offensive minutes. Over the years, we've argued with people to death on the main boards about Karlsson not playing on the PK, etc. This is the flip side of that issue. Ceci was like one of those servants that carries the King around in his chair.

I'm just using Ceci as one example. The PP is another example. Our PP struggled alot, why? We focused too much on Karlsson. The rest of the team started to use Karlsson as a crutch, and stood around, waiting for him to work his magic at the top of the umbrella. We rarely ever worked the puck down low or at the half boards. If the other team could isolate Karlsson, our PP was neutralized. Or what about the forwards who constantly had to cover Karlsson when he went on a rush?

Look at the ridiculous Karlsson on/off stats. They were absolutely outrageous for this reason.

The thing is though, even if Karlsson kinda sucked the oxygen out of the room and suppressed other players (again, not in a malicious or intentional way), he was still so good that it still made us a better team overall. Think of it like a video game where you min/max a unique and unorthodox build that only works in a very specific situation (such as having a special talent like Karlsson). Ultimately, I'm not saying that we're going to be better off without Karlsson. I'm just saying that the hole he leaves behind is not going to be as big as people make it out to be. The systems will be built around the team as a whole instead of an individual player, and his prime minutes will be spread around to other players more evenly. This is where that "We're going from a dictatorship to a democracy" anonymous quote from the Sens dressing room came from. Another quote @Micklebot posted is pretty telling too:

"I've had the benefit of watching [Karlsson] grow as a player and a person for the last six, seven years, and what he does on and off the ice for us is unmeasurable," Anderson said. "You obviously see the points and what he does on the ice, but it's the little things that make him a great leader, a great teammate. He's starting to remind me a lot of Alfie, where guys are starting to kill themselves for him."

Guys are killing themselves "for" him? Not "with" him? It's such a strange quote. It puts him on some sort of pedestal.

I'm not trying to do any character assassination. It's something I've actually pondered about for years, and posted about a few times.

 

[Silencio]

In the immortal words of Jason Spezza, "Someone can be a distraction when they ask for a trade request, huhuuuh, huhuuuh, huhuhuhuhuh."

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You can move on without appearing to take a completely contrarian position to what you stated in the recent past.

Sure.. completely opposing point of view, thought or conviction. There are degrees. Playing sports is about now its not about sitting back and thinking things through etc... Its highly emotional. I think moving on is a big part of the head space.

 

[JungleBeat]

It's just a little hard to believe when you read those quotes from Anderson, Boucher, and Methot from the 16-17 season. They were all praising him as a great teammate and a good leader. I'm sure last season was a trying time for him and maybe he didn't handle certain things the right way, but you don't go from those quotes filled with praise straight to "the locker room was a dictatorship."

The smear campaign is going to pick up once the season starts.

 

[JD1]

This is coming from a guy demanded a trade??

I haven't had a seat on the Andy train in years so don't for a minute think this is me taking his side

that's what was said. Mendes said it. And I can't think it was any other meaning.

interesting he wanted out. a few guys got shipped. he's never been happier. kinda hard to think the guys shipped out didn't contribute to his change of heart.

why is that? I don't have a f***ing clue but based on the words used .... it is what it is.

 

[Karl Prime]

Look at the ridiculous Karlsson on/off stats. They were absolutely outrageous for this reason.

The team was much worse with EK off the ice because none of the other D-men could successfully move the puck up the ice and/or didn't regain possession well in the defensive zone. That wasn't a system thing or a "relying on EK" thing. It was at its worst in 15-16 with Cameron and got a bit better in 16-17 under Boucher.

 

[Acidrain66]

Why are people getting so defensive, he's not your buddy. There has been comments from some of our key guys, not to mention the unfounded claims concerning Hoffman and his GF.

There is smoke here, but since it's EK the Ottawa Erik Karlssons fans don't want to talk about it. If it was about EM or PD these same dudes would have written 1000 posts of 'facts' by now...

Give your heads a shake, it's an interesting side topic to discuss, obviously there is something to it, and if true our team could be better this for it.... Which is better for us Ottawa Senator fans...

What's sad that one of the best premier defensemen is traded for crap and honestly I think you need your head a shake

 

[Acidrain66]

I haven't had a seat on the Andy train in years so don't for a minute think this is me taking his side

that's what was said. Mendes said it. And I can't think it was any other meaning.

interesting he wanted out. a few guys got shipped. he's never been happier. kinda hard to think the guys shipped out didn't contribute to his change of heart.

why is that? I don't have a ****ing clue but based on the words used .... it is what it is.

Man what a load of B.S are you spewing?? But you sir are " FAKE NEWS"

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Sure.. completely opposing point of view, thought or conviction. There are degrees. Playing sports is about now its not about sitting back and thinking things through etc... Its highly emotional. I think moving on is a big part of the head space.

My problems aren't the player quotes themselves, but the management-friendly way some folks are twisting themselves to interpret them.

Every time it looks like a star player on a team might be moved, it creates waves. Media start pestering everyone. Guys in the room have to look ahead to adjusting and finding ways to put up points without their "right arm" on the ice. There's an uncertainty that enters a room while everyone is waiting for the hammer to fall. And yes, all of those things are stressful and a distraction. It's pretty obvious that's not on Erik himself...if it was, we'd have to dump on damned near every star in the league who has played for more than one team.

But for some reason, this organization and a few followers can't seem to handle even the smallest negativity, so they just have to dump all the blame on the guy who isn't in the room anymore. Even when there isn't any reason to blame anyone. It's bizarre.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The team was much worse with EK off the ice because none of the other D-men could successfully move the puck up the ice and/or didn't regain possession well in the defensive zone. That wasn't a system thing or a "relying on EK" thing. It was at its worst in 15-16 with Cameron and got a bit better in 16-17 under Boucher.

If you picked 2 captains say Boro and Smith and had them pick teams .. I guarantee you Karlsson is the 1st one picked

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

My problems aren't the player quotes themselves, but the management-friendly way some folks are twisting themselves to interpret them.

Every time it looks like a star player on a team might be moved, it creates waves. Media start pestering everyone. Guys in the room have to look ahead to adjusting and finding ways to put up points without their "right arm" on the ice. There's an uncertainty that enters a room while everyone is waiting for the hammer to fall. And yes, all of those things are stressful and a distraction. It's pretty obvious that's not on Erik himself...if it was, we'd have to dump on damned near every star in the league who has played for more than one team.

But for some reason, this organization and a few followers can't seem to handle even the smallest negativity, so they just have to dump all the blame on the guy who isn't in the room anymore. Even when there isn't any reason to blame anyone. It's bizarre.

There is a fair amount of polished up click bait that draws a lot of attention. This is the era of quick hit spins and getting attention from out of context quotes.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

to nobody in particular re: the EK stuff re: "dictator to democracy" etc.

these are just general observations; i'm not going to litter this with links and whatnot.

I commented to friends when the trade went down that the character assassination would begin soon. I was off by about a week; it's that "dictator" article, the "I've heard he was a big jerk around town" comments, and I guess whatever went on with Simmer (wasn't listening today).

I'm calling B.S on the whole thing. not because it couldn't be true, but because the actual "I know who said it" or "I saw it myself" evidence doesn't fit the trashing that's going on.

"dictatorship now a democracy" from somebody on the team.

this has no meaning as there is A) no context and B) what does it even mean? a team is not a democracy in the first place. was the unnamed source saying EK was saying how the team should play or which bars they went to after games? I don't know because the quote is devoid of context to this point. i'm guessing Boro. he seems to be the guy to spit out the team line (he started annoying me when someone told him he was a "glue guy" and started saying that in interviews; I mean, who says that unprompted)
I guess now that EK is gone that the players have a little vote on various issues and everything will work out just fine.​

Rift with players, notably Stone

as others have noted, we saw them golfing etc. we see tweets from Turris falling all over himself talking up EK.
​

Anderson (happiest ever). He's a bit of an odd character to begin with. minimally, he apparently doesn't like drama and with EK and Hoff elsewhere, the drama is gone assuming that's what he was talking about.

overall I would bet that all the players knew he was on his way out and in that context, sure, it's finally over, move one.

On ice, we all know that last year was a real ball buster for EK.

quite frankly, if that was affecting his role as a leader on the team, then the entire mess falls directly on the feet of ownership, management, coaching staff, the rest of the leadership, the team doctor and right down to whoever hands the players their towels; very disingenuous for them to say, if indeed they have in such a direct way as is implied, "he was terrible last year. I heard he had some personal issues, but I dunno, whatever; anyways, what a jerk".

I am 100% convinced that all of this is coming directly from management and delivered through a few friendlies on the team and GMPD's so eloquent "err, ahh, err, we are a team" comment. they are throwing a smoke screen to cover the fact that they made a $ decision and botched the entire trade.

and yes, for the Sens and every other team in the league and in every sport, local media tends to be a mouthpiece for ownership.

Even if there were issues, it's the height of tackiness for the team to comment about it - except they have backed themselves into a corner and have to.

I reserve the right to be wrong. /rant

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

to nobody in particular re: the EK stuff re: "dictator to democracy" etc.

these are just general observations; i'm not going to litter this with links and whatnot.

I commented to friends when the trade went down that the character assassination would begin soon. I was off by about a week; it's that "dictator" article, the "I've heard he was a big jerk around town" comments, and I guess whatever went on with Simmer (wasn't listening today).

I'm calling B.S on the whole thing. not because it couldn't be true, but because the actual "I know who said it" or "I saw it myself" evidence doesn't fit the trashing that's going on.

"dictatorship now a democracy" from somebody on the team.

this has no meaning as there is A) no context and B) what does it even mean? a team is not a democracy in the first place. was the unnamed source saying EK was saying how the team should play or which bars they went to after games? I don't know because the quote is devoid of context to this point. i'm guessing Boro. he seems to be the guy to spit out the team line (he started annoying me when someone told him he was a "glue guy" and started saying that in interviews; I mean, who says that unprompted)
I guess now that EK is gone that the players have a little vote on various issues and everything will work out just fine.​

Rift with players, notably Stone

as others have noted, we saw them golfing etc. we see tweets from Turris falling all over himself talking up EK.
​

Anderson (happiest ever). He's a bit of an odd character to begin with. minimally, he apparently doesn't like drama and with EK and Hoff elsewhere, the drama is gone assuming that's what he was talking about.

overall I would bet that all the players knew he was on his way out and in that context, sure, it's finally over, move one.

On ice, we all know that last year was a real ball buster for EK.

quite frankly, if that was affecting his role as a leader on the team, then the entire mess falls directly on the feet of ownership, management, coaching staff, the rest of the leadership, the team doctor and right down to whoever hands the players their towels; very disingenuous for them to say, if indeed they have in such a direct way as is implied, "he was terrible last year. I heard he had some personal issues, but I dunno, whatever; anyways, what a jerk".

I am 100% convinced that all of this is coming directly from management and delivered through a few friendlies on the team and GMPD's so eloquent "err, ahh, err, we are a team" comment. they are throwing a smoke screen to cover the fact that they made a $ decision and botched the entire trade.

and yes, for the Sens and every other team in the league and in every sport, local media tends to be a mouthpiece for ownership.

Even if there were issues, it's the height of tackiness for the team to comment about it - except they have backed themselves into a corner and have to.

I reserve the right to be wrong. /rant

Can we turn hate for Karlsson into support for "The Team" ... I don't think its quite that bad but its happened before ... A little slice of BS can go a long way it seems

 

[BatherSeason]

The smear campaign is going to pick up once the season starts.

Imagine of they go 2-0 out of the gate without Karlsson. You are right, its only gonna get worse.