News Article: Karlsson and Dorion/Melnyk didn't talk after November

[Ice-Tray]

Dictatorship to a democracy.... With the several tidbits we've already heard it paints a picture no doubt.

It will be interesting to follow the EK story this year given that he's now playing in a strong dressing room with a handful of established leaders. This could be good for his personal and leadership growth.

His leadership was questionable last year and it's understandable that several of our other leaders are happier now.

 

[Sensung]

Dictatorship to a democracy.... With the several tidbits we've already heard it paints a picture no doubt.

It will be interesting to follow the EK story this year given that he's now playing in a strong dressing room with a handful of established leaders. This could be good for his personal and leadership growth.

His leadership was questionable last year and it's understandable that several of our other leaders are happier now.

How about his leadership the year before when he was carrying the team?
Do you think how the Sens handled his contract negotiations had an impact?
Do you think that being disrespected by being on the trade block had an impact?
Do you think his losing a child had an impact?
Do you think the friction between his Wife and Caryk had an impact?

I'm sure EK has learned from the trying year and think it is fair to say that things didn't go well last year.

To ignore the circumstances and call his character into question is idiotic and ignores the rest of his time as a Sen.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Frankly, it's insulting to the intelligence of Sens fans to even try the "Erik is bad in the room" narrative. I mean hell, they must think the average Sen fan falls for the wallet inspector gag, too.

 

[NorthCoast]

@Sensung

I asked you about the financial contributions of the two cities.

do you understand the difference? I'm thinking not very well given our past private conversation.

you don't understand what you're into here....you are looking at one side only because it enables you to spew your standard nonsense. ...

explain the advantage Katz has in Edmonton....it's there in the public domain. ... you just need to read and understand it

like I saw you do this week to a poster....I want you to admit your posting about something you don't understand

There are so many metrics you could use to compare and it would be an interesting discussion. Median incomes are relatively the same and Ottawa's pop is larger, but Edmonotn's GDP is much higher, but Ottawa COL is lower so the purchasing power equals out, but the private sector in Edmonton is larger, but Ottawa has a great potential viewing audience for TV deals because they have fans across a more populous/spread out East markets (Ontario, QC, Maritime's), etc, etc, etc....


Regardless it would be a pointless discussion in regards to the overall debate because I am confident that almost any economic metric that puts Edmonton ahead of Ottawa will also put Ottawa ahead of Winnipeg by virtually the same amount.

But by all means, show us something we don't understand.

 

[BatherSeason]

So are you saying that Eugene issues directives, talking points and instructions to the local Media as to how to cover the Senators?

Lol. This has been happening for years and its quite obvious and NO, I will not provide you any proof.

 

[BatherSeason]

Frankly, it's insulting to the intelligence of Sens fans to even try the "Erik is bad in the room" narrative. I mean hell, they must think the average Sen fan falls for the wallet inspector gag, too.

Based on quite a few posters in this thread alone, the new narrative seems to be working on some.

 

[NorthCoast]

How about his leadership the year before when he was carrying the team?
Do you think how the Sens handled his contract negotiations had an impact?
Do you think that being disrespected by being on the trade block had an impact?
Do you think his losing a child had an impact?
Do you think the friction between his side and Caryk had an impact?

I'm sure EK has learned from the trying year and think it is fair to say that things didn't go well last year.

To ignore the circumstances and call his character into question is idiotic and ignores the rest of his time as a Sen.

Reminds me of Yzerman's history.

"When Bowman took over the team in 1993-94, the Wings were a talented, explosive offensive team that was also too soft for the playoff grind. Bowman eventually changed the makeup of the team, transforming the Red Wings into a gritty squad capable of playing a strong two-way game. And critical to that makeover was the transformation of Yzerman.

''We depended on Steve to score too much,'' is Bowman's explanation. ''When you're not expected to score 65 goals a season, you can do more things. As you get older, and get more experience, you evolve into that kind of player. I've seen it happen to a lot of players.''

But Bowman almost did not see it happen to Yzerman. Early in the 1995-96 season, the Wings were discussing a potential trade involving Yzerman with the Ottawa Senators. The story in Detroit goes that Bowman was considering the move when the Red Wings' owner, Mike Ilitch, stepped in and said Yzerman was not going anywhere. A year later, the Wings won their first Stanley Cup. "

 

[swiftwin]

would you as a Sens fan be ok with the situation in Edmonton where taxpayers paid a large portion of the cost of that arena?

don't make it about Melnyk with a not with Eugene as an owner response

would you be ok with taxpayers kicking out say 300M?

you can't on the one hand talk about how another city can do something that we seemingly can't without acknowledging the contributions of edmontonians to their situation.

Considering Lebreton is about $4B, having the city pay $300M would be really really low.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Frankly, it's insulting to the intelligence of Sens fans to even try the "Erik is bad in the room" narrative. I mean hell, they must think the average Sen fan falls for the wallet inspector gag, too.

The comments came from players Nac, not everything is some weird management conspiracy.

Also, when you do the whole jump to the farthest fetched narrative and use that to argue it, it really takes away from your credibility. "EK is bad in the room" is not a discussion point that anyone has brought up but you.

Ek not being a great leader in the room is a narrative that can be discussed reasonably because:

- It doesn't mean he's not a great player
- It doesn't mean that the players didn't like him as a person
- It doesn't mean you can't continue to like him as a player
- It doesn't mean that he can't learn to be a better leader, especially in SJ

We have heard of some leadership clashes with a few players, we know the dressing room was toxic where EK was the captain, we know that EK was at the very centre of a division in the room, a division we are now learning that lacks evidence to support it. We know that he was unwilling to hear Hoff out, or consider that it might not be Caryk. We have heard the dressing room be characterized as a dictatorship, where as now it's a democracy.

These are all things worth considering, not ignoring because you love a player so much that he could do no wrong. Fanboys are a strange breed, I mean, it's not like people are making things up here, all you have to do is put all the things said, and all the things done together to get a picture of what the room was like, and who was in charge of it.

We may not be a better team on the ice next year, though compared to last year we quite likely will, but we will certainly be a better team in the locker room.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Reminds me of Yzerman's history.

"When Bowman took over the team in 1993-94, the Wings were a talented, explosive offensive team that was also too soft for the playoff grind. Bowman eventually changed the makeup of the team, transforming the Red Wings into a gritty squad capable of playing a strong two-way game. And critical to that makeover was the transformation of Yzerman.

''We depended on Steve to score too much,'' is Bowman's explanation. ''When you're not expected to score 65 goals a season, you can do more things. As you get older, and get more experience, you evolve into that kind of player. I've seen it happen to a lot of players.''

But Bowman almost did not see it happen to Yzerman. Early in the 1995-96 season, the Wings were discussing a potential trade involving Yzerman with the Ottawa Senators. The story in Detroit goes that Bowman was considering the move when the Red Wings' owner, Mike Ilitch, stepped in and said Yzerman was not going anywhere. A year later, the Wings won their first Stanley Cup. "

EK is not Stevie Y. The nice thing about SJ though is that if he's open to it he can learn a lot from the established leadership group. It will probably be good for his career to take a back seat for a bit and let it come naturally to him. Leading people is not natural for everyone, and can take some learning.

 

[NorthCoast]

EK is not Stevie Y. The nice thing about SJ though is that if he's open to it he can learn a lot from the established leadership group. It will probably be good for his career to take a back seat for a bit and let it come naturally to him. Leading people is not natural for everyone, and can take some learning.

Not claiming he is, or will ever be, and I totally agree that it takes some learning.

Most players do need to evolve into the role and there will of course be bumps along the way. It requires patience. Probably more than a few months of patience.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Not claiming he is, or will ever be, and I totally agree that it takes some learning.

Most players do need to evolve into the role and there will of course be bumps along the way. It requires patience. Probably more than a few months of patience.

This is why I think this season at least will be instrumental for him in SJ. They have a strong experienced leadership core there, and EK will be able to join in, play his game without worrying about carrying the leadership role. And if he's open to it he'll be able to learn from one the longest serving leaders in the game.

 

[Sensung]

The comments came from players Nac, not everything is some weird management conspiracy.

Also, when you do the whole jump to the farthest fetched narrative and use that to argue it, it really takes away from your credibility. "EK is bad in the room" is not a discussion point that anyone has brought up but you.

Ek not being a great leader in the room is a narrative that can be discussed reasonably because:

- It doesn't mean he's not a great player
- It doesn't mean that the players didn't like him as a person
- It doesn't mean you can't continue to like him as a player
- It doesn't mean that he can't learn to be a better leader, especially in SJ

We have heard of some leadership clashes with a few players, we know the dressing room was toxic where EK was the captain, we know that EK was at the very centre of a division in the room, a division we are now learning that lacks evidence to support it. We know that he was unwilling to hear Hoff out, or consider that it might not be Caryk. We have heard the dressing room be characterized as a dictatorship, where as now it's a democracy.

These are all things worth considering, not ignoring because you love a player so much that he could do no wrong. Fanboys are a strange breed, I mean, it's not like people are making things up here, all you have to do is put all the things said, and all the things done together to get a picture of what the room was like, and who was in charge of it.

We may not be a better team on the ice next year, though compared to last year we quite likely will, but we will certainly be a better team in the locker room.

Feel free to provide quotes to back up your claims.

 

[GrantLemons]

To the topic of EK being toxic, it's likely he became toxic last season due to all that was going on the team, and him personally. It could be a situation where he was so frustrated on so many levels that it was extremely difficult for him to contain it, and he let it leak into the room and affect it. I've been in this situation in a workplace before, and it's very, very hard to put on a happy face when you disagree with all of the decisions being made and the direction the company is going (especially if you are an important part of that company, as EK was).

By nature, I don't at all think EK is toxic, he genuinely seems like a good dude who wants to win at all costs, and wants to play with good players. I think last season was too much for him to handle personally and professionally. He either needed to see the turd of a front office flushed and a new direction established, or he needed to move on.

 

[BatherSeason]

We have heard of some leadership clashes with a few players, we know the dressing room was toxic where EK was the captain, we know that EK was at the very centre of a division in the room, a division we are now learning that lacks evidence to support it. We know that he was unwilling to hear Hoff out, or consider that it might not be Caryk. We have heard the dressing room be characterized as a dictatorship, where as now it's a democracy.

We know nothing. You know nothing. Quit trying to claim you know more than anyone else. Leadership clash with who?? Mark Stone? The same guy he was out golfing with just a week before he was traded. I guess the "dictator" demanded that Stoner play golf with him and Stone was too scared to stick up for himself.

What we do know is that every wife on the time supported M Karlsson and not Caryk.

Ever think that maybe the dictatorship vs democracy comment could be about coaching, seems more plausible to me. Remember when Boucher was allowed to sign his pets and play them more than the star players?? That seems like more of a dictatorship to me.

This whole Karlsson is toxic narrative is exhausting and very predictable. Karlsson's rep vs Dorion/Melnyk's rep, I would choose Karlsson 100% of the time and frankly, I am shocked anyone is even listening to the spin job being done by the media.

 

[BatherSeason]

They have a strong experienced leadership core there

You know this?? Maybe they don't. Since you base "leadership" off of quotes from players, maybe I can find some quotes from some Sharks that we can twist into a narrative of a team that has poor leadership.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We know nothing. You know nothing. Quit trying to claim you know more than anyone else. Leadership clash with who?? Mark Stone? The same guy he was out golfing with just a week before he was traded. I guess the "dictator" demanded that Stoner play golf with him and Stone was too scared to stick up for himself.

What we do know is that every wife on the time supported M Karlsson and not Caryk.

Ever think that maybe the dictatorship vs democracy comment could be about coaching, seems more plausible to me. Remember when Boucher was allowed to sign his pets and play them more than the star players?? That seems like more of a dictatorship to me.

This whole Karlsson is toxic narrative is exhausting and very predictable. Karlsson's rep vs Dorion/Melnyk's rep, I would choose Karlsson 100% of the time and frankly, I am shocked anyone is even listening to the spin job being done by the media.

Chezzz, why so angry, we're discussing something. Try and relax.

Try and understand that you can play golf at a tournament with a team mate, and also clash with them in the locker room over leadership styles. It doesn't have to mean that Stone 'hates' EK.

You're quite caught up in defending EK from slights that really aren't there. The truth is he may not be the beloved leader you think you admire, and certainly there have been many comments to suggest otherwise. EK was absolutely part of the toxic locker room given that he was the one having issues with Hoffman (even though Hoffman allegedly approached EK with proof that it wasn't his GF), and he was supposed to be the captain and leader of the room.

He also played lazy uninspired hockey for much of the season, especially on the defensive end, I watched this unfold all season and was constantly wondering what the hell he was doing out there. My eyes told me that EK had checked out on the team on the ice.

Fanboys have a hard time with criticism, but that's all it is. I like EK the player, when he's playing inspired hockey, but things changed last year, and there were lots of comments along with the divided locker room which support the idea that EK, while being an amazing talent, may not be a great leader, at least not yet.

If you find that difficult to swallow, well, that's your problem.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You know this?? Maybe they don't. Since you base "leadership" off of quotes from players, maybe I can find some quotes from some Sharks that we can twist into a narrative of a team that has poor leadership.

Sure, maybe they don't except Jumbo Joe, Brent Burns, and Pavs are pretty solid vets. Go at it Chezzz, spend your time fighting against something that's staring you in the face.

[mod]

After this last season it makes perfect sense to question EK's leadership, no on is questioning his abilities.

 

[NorthCoast]

Sure, maybe they don't except Jumbo Joe, Brent Burns, and Pavs are pretty solid vets. Go at it Chezzz, spend your time fighting against something that's staring you in the face.

[mod]

After this last season it makes perfect sense to question EK's leadership, no on is questioning his abilities.

I don't know. I think if all things are equal and a team goes into chaos purely based on locker dynamics, then sure, buck should stop 100% on players/leaders/coaches in the room.

But going from "this trade puts us over the top" to a full rebuild in a couple of months, while seeing the players that helped get you to the conference final slowly traded off the team, would be hard for any elite NHL player in their prime who has never won a cup to digest.

Was Sundin a bad leader for not accepting a trade when leafs were rebuilding?

Trevor Linden:

“What people fail to realize is the older group of players we had here—the Garrisons and Keslers and Bieksas and Higgins and Hamhuises—which are no longer with us, these are good people. These are leaders.

We have Daniel and Henrik Sedin here, who are very important to this organization and icons in the city. They’re not going anywhere. I don’t know how I walk into the room and tell these guys, ‘Strip it down.’ I’m not sure it’s fair to these guys. There’s different circumstances, be it in Toronto or Carolina or Vancouver, that require different routes. It’s not perfect, but I’m encouraged by the young players we’ve introduced, and we’ve got some young prospects.”


I won't argue that EK is the greatest leader or that he couldn't have handled it better last year, but I also don't think that last years sens is a fair situation to be judging anyone's leadership capability because good leaders are setup to succeed by their organizations and the sens did not do that with such a massive change in direction mid-way through the year.

 

[BatherSeason]

Try and understand that you can play golf at a tournament

Wasn't a tournament actually, just a random round together, like a bromance.

If you find that difficult to swallow, well, that's your problem.

You may want to take your own advice, I know it may be difficult for you to swallow, but your boy Melnyk and his wing man Dorion are quite incompetent when it comes to running a multi-millionaire business. You are in the minority, not me.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Wasn't a tournament actually, just a random round together, like a bromance.



You may want to take your own advice, I know it may be difficult for you to swallow, but your boy Melnyk and his wing man Dorion are quite incompetent when it comes to running a multi-millionaire business. You are in the minority, not me.

It's this kind of cheap thinking that you're known for. I don't like EM as an owner of the team, been very clear about that, so he's not exactly "my boy" now is he?

I'm totally fine not being part of the crowd that runs around trashing everything while riding EK's jock over all else. I don't mind the being in the minority, especially around here. There is no badge for being one of many obnoxious voices, it just makes you boring.

 

[BatherSeason]

After this last season it makes perfect sense to question EK's leadership, no on is questioning his abilities.

Why aren't we questioning Mark Stone's leadership abilities, didn't he wear an A last year too?? What about established NHL vets that were brought in here to help provide said leadership, Nate Thompson, Pyatt, Oduya?

We gave Boucher another kick at the can, he is just as responsible, probably more than Karlsson was.

I know you can go on and on and on, so for now, hitting the"ignore" button is probably my best recourse. Do the same to me if you wish. Name calling is a good place to draw the line.

 

[Acidrain66]

It's this kind of cheap thinking that you're known for. I don't like EM as an owner of the team, been very clear about that, so he's not exactly "my boy" now is he?

I'm totally fine not being part of the crowd that runs around trashing everything while riding EK's jock over all else. I don't mind the being in the minority, especially around here. There is no badge for being one of many obnoxious voices, it just makes you boring.

How often do you criticize your so called owner?? It seems like your justifying a terrible trade and brush it under the rug

 

[Ice-Tray]

Why aren't we questioning Mark Stone's leadership abilities, didn't he wear an A last year too?? What about established NHL vets that were brought in here to help provide said leadership, Nate Thompson, Pyatt, Oduya?

We gave Boucher another kick at the can, he is just as responsible, probably more than Karlsson was.

I know you can go on and on and on, so for now, hitting the"ignore" button is probably my best recourse. Do the same to me if you wish. Name calling is a good place to draw the line.

We are questioning them too, but the buck stops with the captain no? Especially when he is directly one of the causes of a dressing room rift. Stone is also one of the leaders who clashed with EK.

I'm not sure Pyatt was brought on for leadership, nor Thompson or Oduya. Burrows yes, and he has been well criticized all year in fact.

Boucher has also been criticized, though the coach doesn't run the leadership group. Boucher is responsible for implementing a system that is more "fun' to play in, and hopefully more effective as well, but he can't solve personal differences in the room.

Sorry, man but when you come at me in a huff like you did in response to my post I'm not sure what you expect. If you approach a discussion calmly things tend to stay that way.

 

[Ice-Tray]

How often do you criticize your so called owner?? It seems like your justifying a terrible trade and brush it under the rug

My owner?

I don't need to join the bandwagon of endless insults in order to prove to folks that I don't 'love' EM. Give me a break. I don't defend his actions, and have also posted many times that I would like a new owner for the team with cash and a closed mouth. Still, I'm not all worked up about ownership and management like some, because I don't really care too much about that side of hockey, a bit but not enough for it to ruin my afternoon.

I'm not justifying the EK trade return, it is what it is and speaks for itself, I can see why he potentially needed to go though, and can understand that he was traded as a rental. I would have liked at least one known awesome piece in return but it is what it is. What I care most about is watching the team on the ice and I have liked what I have seen from them so far, given rebuild and all.