Proposal: Kapanen for FLA 2017 1st rd pick

[4thline]

He put up absolutely terrible numbers in the A. What are you possibly talking about? 0.56 points per game for a forward is not good by any stretch of any imagination even for a leaf fan.


Brandon Montour of the ducks put up 0.83 points per game, vastly better and he's a defenseman. He is hardly worth much more than a 1st round pick in today's game. If Kapanen is worth a 1st this league is no longer a league.

Sometimes I forget that critical thinking and contextual analysis aren't skills everyone has, then I get reminded and it makes me sad

A. Brandon Montour was 21 last season, Kap was 19. That age difference is huge

B. The site link is literally ON THE ****ING PAGE with Kap's 19 year old AHL comparables? He's right in line with what you'd expect from a top 6 prospect. Kap's producing right in line with his draft year peers (Milano, Kempe, etc) slightly beind Fiala and Kamenev. Other recent examples in that bracket are Tatar, Miller, Sutter, well ahead of Zibinajad.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Why would both teams do this trade?

A pick in the the mid twenties isn't going to help the Leafs in the near future, and not having a 1st round pick for the Panthers, hurts them for trades at the TDL.

Regarding Kapanen, gee he was 19 years old, he would have been playing junior if he was deemed to be a North American. Being deemed to ba a European, he was able to play in any league last year.

Kapanen is expected to get big minutes in the AHL this season. A better indication of his NHL potential will be known next April. Seeing him play in the AHL/NHL last year, IMO he will be an NHLer.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Change it to a third rounder and Florida might think about it.

 

[Gavy]

Holy ****. You guys are under rating Kapanen so hard. Try watching a leaf game when he plays and then get back to me.

 

[StuckOutHere]

You've literally gotta be kidding me. Why do leaf fans, and I mean only leaf fans of all the teams in the league, vastly overrate certain players? Sorry but no GM in history of the game would trade a 1st for Kapanen.

E.g. Kapanen is an elite A+ prospect, Jake Gardiner is an absolute surefire top-4 defender with huge upside and he isn't -50 every season (just pretend).

The Oilers traded a 1st for Griffin Reinhart. Worse deals have been made than Kapanen for the 25th or so pick.

 

[Mugzy97]

Sometimes I forget that critical thinking and contextual analysis aren't skills everyone has, then I get reminded and it makes me sad

A. Brandon Montour was 21 last season, Kap was 19. That age difference is huge

B. The site link is literally ON THE ****ING PAGE with Kap's 19 year old AHL comparables? He's right in line with what you'd expect from a top 6 prospect. Kap's producing right in line with his draft year peers (Milano, Kempe, etc) slightly beind Fiala and Kamenev. Other recent examples in that bracket are Tatar, Miller, Sutter, well ahead of Zibinajad.

Thanks for answering for me lol.

He put up absolutely terrible numbers in the A. What are you possibly talking about? 0.56 points per game for a forward is not good by any stretch of any imagination even for a leaf fan.


Brandon Montour of the ducks put up 0.83 points per game, vastly better and he's a defenseman. He is hardly worth much more than a 1st round pick in today's game. If Kapanen is worth a 1st this league is no longer a league.

If Kapanen is still in the A when he is 21 and putting up .56 ppg, I'll be concerned but this season he will boost that number by quite a bit I would say. You hate the kid for some reason but I'm happy to have him as a Leafs fan.

 

[TOGuy14]

Kapanen isn't worth the first rounder (even a late one at this point) in my opinion. I think his value has slowly been trending downward. The golden goal in the WJC (from otherwise appalling tournament) is the only spotlight from last season that I remember and the 25 points in 44 AHL games aren't exactly enticing. As a Finn I hate to say this and I really hope he can change the course and eventually follow the path of his father.

From Florida's perspective I don't see why they'd take the deal. Yes, they are contending now but KK isn't going to replace Jagr in the long run and Smith is looking like a solid second line winger who can be lifted to first line if injuries occur. I would rather have them hold the pick and if needed, use it as a piece to acquire a better RW in the future.

He was one of the youngest players in the AHL last year (I believe second or third youngest) playing underage.

He did fine given the scenario, and should only grow from here.

 

[Antropovsky]

Kapanen was a standout yesterday for the leafs. A goal, a crossbar and nearly scored on a wrap around similar to the wjc. I'm pretty sure he made a nice pass to Holland too. ..and Holland wiffed on a 7 foot uncontested shot ...

He's got a great toolbox, incredibly fast, rocket of a shot, passing ability and stick handling. Physically fit...

Just needs to put it together on a regular basis, and that might just be a maturity/confidence thing.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Idk, it's close value but I don't see the incentive for either side. This thread will just be a squabble about kapanen's value

 

[KGL]

For those stating Kapanen's point totals were unimpressive he is 44th of all time in scoring as a 19 year old. 33rd if you go by PPG.

It wasn't unimpressive, it was odd. You just don't normally see 19 year olds in the AHL. That being said he did well.

Yup. Better P/GP than Ryan Kesler, Nathan Horton, Andrei Kostitsyn, Tomas Tatar, JT Miller, Brandon Sutter, and Mika Zibanejad at the same age.

Seems like a lot of people forget that Kappy typically wouldn't even be in the AHL at his age. He'll be just fine, not every 19 year-old AHLer can produce like Nylander did.

He's not available for a first round pick that we hope develops as well as he is.

 

[LeafGrief]

Absolutely ridiculous that people are writing Kapanen off. This is his 20 year old season and he'll be playing huge minutes in the AHL this year. He's still got holes in his game, but he's also got tons of talent and definite top6 upside. He's developing nicely and there is no need to rush him to the NHL just to satisfy some HF'ers opinions.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I'm curious what possible incentive the Leafs have to do this. I don't buy this "Neither team does this" either. He was 19 in the AHL, when most kids are in junior. Had he stayed in Junior and put up insane points this discussion isn't happening, look at the hype for a guy like Dvorak, yet had he had a season like Kapanen in the AHL he's a bust.

If he has another crummy year then I can see the argument but at this point I can only roll my eyes.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Yup.

Wait 365 days before making a decision on him.

 

[tony d]

Doubt Florida would do this, Toronto might though.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

His floor is a 3rd/4th line PK specialist at this point, like a better version of what Grabner was last year, I don't see how he doesn't make the NHL in some capacity. The realistic upside is probably something close to Hagelin. Why are we trading this for a probable late first that's going to maybe have a shot at making the roster in 2020 at the earliest?

 

[kelsier]

so that was the only time you watched him then, was during the WJC.

Last season? Yes. Didn't feel the need to follow up on his AHL games. Prior to the last season I've watched him in every single WJC he has played and I saw a lot of him in FEL. Before every single WJC I though, ok the kid is one year older now and he will be at least solid and productive, while getting disappointed every single time. At 2016 WJC not only was he playing bad but what really caught my eye was that he was shying away from boards & contact at times and didn't show effort without the puck, which made me wonder whether there was some kind of fear factor involved or just being lazy. Now, I would say he's a borderline NHL player instead of potential top 6 forward.

He was one of the youngest players in the AHL last year (I believe second or third youngest) playing underage.

He did fine given the scenario, and should only grow from here.

Well if you compare those points to another Finn who played in the same WJC squad, Mikko Rantanen, who had 60 points in 52 games while playing his first year in the league and in a far worse team.

As I said before, I hope for the best what comes to Kapanen but I'm pretty much done having expectations what comes down to him. With all the tools and great skating, it would be kind of a shame not seeing him make it at all (which I think is entirely possible at this point).

 

[Sundinisagod]

Doubt Florida would do this, Toronto might though.

I dont see why Toronto would.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Last season? Yes. Didn't feel the need to follow up on his AHL games. Prior to the last season I've watched him in every single WJC he has played and I saw a lot of him in FEL. Before every single WJC I though, ok the kid is one year older now and he will be at least solid and productive, while getting disappointed every single time. At 2016 WJC not only was he playing bad but what really caught my eye was that he was shying away from boards & contact at times and didn't show effort without the puck, which made me wonder whether there was some kind of fear factor involved or just being lazy. Now, I would say he's a borderline NHL player instead of potential top 6 forward.



Well if you compare those points to another Finn who played in the same WJC squad, Mikko Rantanen, who had 60 points in 52 games while playing his first year in the league and in a far worse team.


As I said before, I hope for the best what comes to Kapanen but I'm pretty much done having expectations what comes down to him. With all the tools and great skating, it would be kind of a shame not seeing him make it at all (which I think is entirely possible at this point).

I don't think many of us are expecting him to be at Rantanen's level. He wasn't drafted in the same range either.

 

[Stuzchuk]

FLA 1st will go on a rental at the deadline... they are ready to compete now, not in a "near future"

 

[SprDaVE]

Doubt Florida would do this, Toronto might though.

They would definitely not.

 

[Hagged]

Now, I would say he's a borderline NHL player instead of potential top 6 forward.



Well if you compare those points to another Finn who played in the same WJC squad, Mikko Rantanen, who had 60 points in 52 games while playing his first year in the league and in a far worse team.

As I said before, I hope for the best what comes to Kapanen but I'm pretty much done having expectations what comes down to him. With all the tools and great skating, it would be kind of a shame not seeing him make it at all (which I think is entirely possible at this point).

A lot of people would take Rantanen over Kapanen. How many of those trade Rantanen for Panthers 1st though, likely a late first. Late firsts more often than not will account to nothing at all. Is that really what Rants is worth?

 

[NarcoPolo]

Last season? Yes. Didn't feel the need to follow up on his AHL games. Prior to the last season I've watched him in every single WJC he has played and I saw a lot of him in FEL. Before every single WJC I though, ok the kid is one year older now and he will be at least solid and productive, while getting disappointed every single time. At 2016 WJC not only was he playing bad but what really caught my eye was that he was shying away from boards & contact at times and didn't show effort without the puck, which made me wonder whether there was some kind of fear factor involved or just being lazy. Now, I would say he's a borderline NHL player instead of potential top 6 forward.


Well if you compare those points to another Finn who played in the same WJC squad, Mikko Rantanen, who had 60 points in 52 games while playing his first year in the league and in a far worse team.

As I said before, I hope for the best what comes to Kapanen but I'm pretty much done having expectations what comes down to him. With all the tools and great skating, it would be kind of a shame not seeing him make it at all (which I think is entirely possible at this point).

I use to have a similar opinion of Kapanen when he came over to the leafs. Thought he was just a guy with a ton of skill with no hockey sense or complete game but since then my opinion on him has changed slightly. As for the bolded, its very clear, to me at least, that you haven't followed him recently or when he was called up last year because when I see him play now he looks engaged, he's forechecking hard, goes into the dirty areas, he's making plays, ect.

Using the WJC is a ridiculous way to evaluate a player btw. Based on the WJC no one would have though Rantanen would produce the way he had in the ahl. I can't comment on FEL games because I dont watch them. I'd also trade him for Rantanen in a heart beat..

 

[KGL]

Yup.

Wait 365 days before making a decision on him.

And then wait another 365 days if need be. Everyone talks about "The Detroit Model" but no one wants to be patient and actually see it through. I'm not willing to give up on Kap at 19, 20, 21 or 22. If he gets to 23 and he's completely stalled and doesn't look like he'll make the NHL, sure, then we can talk about giving up on him.

 

[thewave]

We won't be trading Nylanders friend and future linemate. Sorry.

 

[Magic Man]

Rantanen produced like a blue-chip prospect. No one thinks he and Kapanen are on the same level. Kapanen's production is respectable for his age group and the league he's playing in. I don't think trading him for a pick in the same range he was selected is a great move for Toronto, he hasn't lost any stock with play.