Kane might be in legal trouble in Buffalo (verifiable sources only, no hearsay)

[Kaners PPGs]

[mod]

Go down the dial to the very vanilla ESPN. They are more for the sensitive types.

And I'll take their "TMZ" reporting any day over the filtered Comcast Sports and ESPN reports we have been getting for years.

 

[AlphaLackey]

[mod]

"The slur runs on the front page, the retraction runs with the deodorant ads" - Richard Nixon.

But yeah, the radio show discussed and the article linked here show a pretty disturbing trend -- if you even dare to hold any sort of non-certain opinion on Kane's actual guilt or actual innocence, then you are "obviously" a rapist sympathizer.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

[mod]

Go down the dial to the very vanilla ESPN. They are more for the sensitive types.

And I'll take their "TMZ" reporting any day over the filtered Comcast Sports and ESPN reports we have been getting for years.

Nah, the whole industry has become pathetic. I don't need media to tell me what to think about news. I can formulate my own perspective and thoughts.

They should stick to their lane and talk about Jay Cutler's new and improved maturity level or something.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

If you are prone to raping people when drunk, maybe drink less.

I never knew the situation was that simple, genius. Rape doesn't just entail classical "forceful" sex that used to result in lynching. It's a shame that a mob mentality is still more-or-less a universal among us apes. Mark Twain was right.

Anyhow, women who are drunk CANNOT consent to sex period. In other words, even if she consented while intoxicated, it may still be rape. That's one of the huge contradictions of party scene since it intoxication-friendly.

Oh, please.

Not getting charged, if that happens, is not saying Kane is a victim.


Innocent until proven guilty is ONLY for the court system.
People with money get off when guilty all of the time.

Too bad, rape is far more commonly documented and underreported in poorer communities. The underreporting via the rape kit cases actually tends have a poorer and racialised component. Look at where the cases are the largest and look at the demographic features as well.

Mind you, rape cases is usually the result of poor education and economic status. Those who are less economically mobile tend to see higher violent crime rates in general. Rape, for your information, is no different.

 

[Hull2Roenick2Kane]

In its simplest form, person A rapes person B, and person B accuses person A of rape, often by going to the police. It can get more complex than that, but others can chime in if they want.

hmm... thats interesting. Ive seen people be accused of rape also by

person A has sex with person B and then leaves making person B angry/upset and claims rape happened.

person A doesnt pay attention to person B and then person B claims rape to get even.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Anyhow, women who are drunk CANNOT consent to sex period.

Nor can men. Which gives you another huge contradiction in the intoxication-friendly party scene. Do we want to live in a time where laws on statutory rape are not gender-neutral?

I guess I should say "return to a time" as during my lifetime, a number of states had non-gender neutral laws on statutory rape with regards to age (I.e. Only the man could be charged even if both parties were underage). And I honestly get the impression that any people want such sexism to exist in statutory rape law definitions, given how sexist their colloquial definitions are.

 

[DTM]

[mod]

"The slur runs on the front page, the retraction runs with the deodorant ads" - Richard Nixon.

But yeah, the radio show discussed and the article linked here show a pretty disturbing trend -- if you even dare to hold any sort of non-certain opinion on Kane's actual guilt or actual innocence, then you are "obviously" a rapist sympathizer.

Rape accusations.. Richard Nixon quotes.. what a ****** day

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 27s27 seconds ago
Patrick Kane's scheduled visit with sick kids at a Buffalo hospital Saturday has been cancelled.




Ugh those poor kids

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I never knew the situation was that simple, genius. Rape doesn't just entail classical "forceful" sex that used to result in lynching. It's a shame that a mob mentality is still more-or-less a universal among us apes. Mark Twain was right.

Anyhow, women who are drunk CANNOT consent to sex period. In other words, even if she consented while intoxicated, it may still be rape. That's one of the huge contradictions of party scene since it intoxication-friendly.


Too bad, rape is far more commonly documented and underreported in poorer communities. The underreporting via the rape kit cases actually tends have a poorer and racialised component. Look at where the cases are the largest and look at the demographic features as well.

Mind you, rape cases is usually the result of poor education and economic status. Those who are less economically mobile tend to see higher violent crime rates in general. Rape, for your information, is no different.

That's not accurate. Or, at least it wouldn't be in Canada. Here, the Criminal Code provides that someone cannot provide consent if they're incapable of consenting - however, the law doesn't explicitly state that if you are intoxicated you are incapable of consenting. It might be that your intoxication is to the degree it vitiates consent - but this isn't automatically the case - and it would have to be established at a trial. Now, if you are actually unconscious when someone has sex with you - then you cannot consent (nor can whoever slept with you say that you consented in advance). But there have been other cases where being really drunk isn't enough to prove you didn't consent (for example, there was a case about 10 years ago where the complainant had either drunk or been on drugs enough that she said she blacked out and was raped - and the crown argued that the fact she blacked out was enough to establish no consent - but the court said all that established was she couldn't recall the next day whether she consented or not). So while a judge or jury could find your level of intoxication was to the level you couldn't consent, intoxication in and of itself doesn't turn sexual assault into a strict liability offense.

Edit: This article discusses intoxication/consent a bit (at least in Canada). One thing I'd point out is that since the date of the article, the Supreme Court of Canada gave a decision which said that if you've passed out you can't consent and there's no "advance consent" you can give to something that happens when you're unconscious.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Nor can men. Which gives you another huge contradiction in the intoxication-friendly party scene. Do we want to live in a time where laws on statutory rape are not gender-neutral?

I guess I should say "return to a time" as during my lifetime, a number of states had non-gender neutral laws on statutory rape with regards to age (I.e. Only the man could be charged even if both parties were underage). And I honestly get the impression that any people want such sexism to exist in statutory rape law definitions, given how sexist their colloquial definitions are.

In many cases particularly in the university scene, that paradigm still exists. A male is more-or-less automatically guilty often resembling the events that occurred prior to a lynching scene.

Rape is very a loaded term. It was used to round up men rowdy men from "lesser" communities. To take a herd-like approach on this matter is probably not going to benefit anyone.

That's not accurate. Or, at least it wouldn't be in Canada. Here, the Criminal Code provides that someone cannot provide consent if they're incapable of consenting - however, the law doesn't explicitly state that if you are intoxicated you are incapable of consenting. It might be that your intoxication is to the degree it vitiates consent - but this isn't automatically the case - and it would have to be established at a trial. Now, if you are actually unconscious when someone has sex with you - then you cannot consent (nor can whoever slept with you say that you consented in advance). But there have been other cases where being really drunk isn't enough to prove you didn't consent (for example, there was a case about 10 years ago where the complainant had either drunk or been on drugs enough that she said she blacked out and was raped - and the crown argued that the fact she blacked out was enough to establish no consent - but the court said all that established was she couldn't recall the next day whether she consented or not). So while a judge or jury could find your level of intoxication was to the level you couldn't consent, intoxication in and of itself doesn't turn sexual assault into a strict liability offense.

The problem here is that there are many that does not involve unconscious party. Instead, two people are intoxicated but somewhat conscious. Consent is given but accusation of rape is made due to this "accepted" notion of consent differentials. The male role is supposed to entail some sort of "care-taker" duties as well.

More importantly, I don't see any evidence suggesting that Patrick Kane slept with an unconscious woman. Instead, I think it'd be more parsimonious to suggest that we're talking about boozed, drugged up people having fun. There are times when that such environments can be quite sour...

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

I understand why this thread has devolved into talk about extortion, consent, athletes being targets, etc.

Honestly sick of those excuses for Kane at this point...regardless of what the outcome is. I understand that sometimes rape cases can take advantage of athletes...all the reason for Kane to steer clear of these REPEATED bonehead lifestyle decisions.

Is he alone at these bars? Does he have a buddy check? Who are his buddies letting him bring people home? Does he and his buddies make sure these girls aren't hammered?

And I hate this notion that athletes are just normal guys who like to have fun and have their lifestyle hampered by women who are out for their money. These guys make MILLIONS of dollars to play a child's game to entertain the masses. If they want to be anonymous at a bar maybe professional sports isn't the right profession...good luck picking up girls.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

hmm... thats interesting. Ive seen people be accused of rape also by

person A has sex with person B and then leaves making person B angry/upset and claims rape happened.

person A doesnt pay attention to person B and then person B claims rape to get even.

I've seen the same as well. In fact, lynchings - historically or even now - often involved some sort of rape accusation.

We really need to be careful before crucifying the accused. It can really destroy individuals even if they like to party excessively or have a prior criminal record.

 

[cbh]

I guess we can forget about any real hockey talk with an essentially gossip thread to occupy the off season.

660 replies, 59,700 views....in 2 days

 

[AlphaLackey]

Rape accusations.. Richard Nixon quotes.. what a ****** day

Is that a quote from a Hunter S. Thompson book? Cause it sure could be

But I think it's salient here. If the accusations are proven false (not 'dropped for lack of evidence, but proven demonstrably false via concrete evidence as in the Duke case') do you expect the columnist quoted last page to do any sort of new culpa? Apologize to the thousands of fans he's belittled on Twitter? Or hell, apologize to Patrick Kane? I don't.

It's like if you played poker, and you went all-in, and if you lost, you just reached and took your chips back and no one noticed or cared.

Myself, Kane is in a quantum state of guilt and innocence; I am not his attorney nor his accusers attorney, so I am not required to take a firm position of explicit belief. Both possibilities discussed are plausible, more-than-trivially possible, non-edge cases. And viewing the situation as such does not make one a rape apologist.

 

[Quiddity]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/08/07/baffoe-patrick-kane-is-not-your-friend/

This is a good read

"He is a sports star who has embarrassed and compromised his employer—again."

I'm not a Blackhawks fan so excuse me if I'm out of the loop, but is there any evidence, beyond an accusation, that would suggest Kane has actually done anything wrong? If not, contrary to the author, I don't see the issue with fans giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, if some inculpatory evidence should emerge...

 

[AlphaLackey]

...I understand that sometimes rape cases can take advantage of athletes...all the reason for Kane to steer clear of these REPEATED bonehead lifestyle decisions.

Is he alone at these bars? Does he have a buddy check? Who are his buddies letting him bring people home? Does he and his buddies make sure these girls aren't hammered?

As much as I hate to victim blame, in Kane's shoes, I'd have a damn entourage to save me from myself, and I wouldn't even whip out my Bauer without having a signed and videotaped acceptance of consent streamed directly to a time stamped server.

A young athletic famous multi millionaire couldn't get that as a precondition? ****, he could insist that his dates sing Battle Hymn of the Republic while hopping on one leg before he'd consent, and they'd still line up from here to kingdom come.

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

"He is a sports star who has embarrassed and compromised his employer—again."

I'm not a Blackhawks fan so excuse me if I'm out of the loop, but is there any evidence, beyond an accusation, that would suggest Kane has actually done anything wrong? If not, contrary to the author, I don't see the issue with fans giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, if some inculpatory evidence should emerge...

Blackhawks are all over Chicago news and even some national news for their star player being investigated for rape...that's pretty embarrassing.

Who knows if he did anything "wrong" by the law. I think any company who owes $84 million facing criminal investigation would be pretty embarrassed regardless.

As a public figure he's held to a higher standard than the regular guy. That includes representing the brand, staying out of the news for rape investigation, etc.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

As much as I hate to victim blame, in Kane's shoes, I'd have a damn entourage to save me from myself, and I wouldn't even whip out my Bauer without having a signed and videotaped acceptance of consent streamed directly to a time stamped server.

A young athletic famous multi millionaire couldn't get that as a precondition? ****, he could insist that his dates sing Battle Hymn of the Republic while hopping on one leg before he'd consent, and they'd still line up from here to kingdom come.

Yeah, he was pretty foolish.

False allegation produced in these hyper-promiscuous scenes are even common among ordinary people. Now add multi-million dollar net worth and expect even greater incentivisation.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

The problem here is that there are many that does not involve unconscious party. Instead, two people are intoxicated but somewhat conscious. Consent is given but accusation of rape is made due to this "accepted" notion of consent differentials. The male role is supposed to entail some sort of "care-taker" duties as well.

More importantly, I don't see any evidence suggesting that Patrick Kane slept with an unconscious woman. Instead, I think it'd be more parsimonious to suggest that we're talking about boozed, drugged up people having fun. There are times when that such environments can be quite sour...

Oh, yeah - I didn't mean that. I just meant that I keep on seeing people say that if a woman is drunk she can't consent to sex (meaning in a legal sense - although that might not have been what you meant) - and I was just saying that, legally (at least in Canada), the mere fact that someone was intoxicated doesn't mean that they couldn't consent to sex.

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

As much as I hate to victim blame, in Kane's shoes, I'd have a damn entourage to save me from myself, and I wouldn't even whip out my Bauer without having a signed and videotaped acceptance of consent streamed directly to a time stamped server.

A young athletic famous multi millionaire couldn't get that as a precondition? ****, he could insist that his dates sing Battle Hymn of the Republic while hopping on one leg before he'd consent, and they'd still line up from here to kingdom come.

The Dallas Cowboys hired a guy to just follow Dez Bryant around. I understand that Kane has matured by all reports...but this guy has already had a couple of embarrassing events. Do whatever it takes to keep your $84 million investment on the straight and narrow.

Regardless of the outcome at this point there has been a lot of damage done. Trying to wait for the facts but it's already a real sad situation all the way around.

Dez Bryant rules with first contract:

Sources say some of the rules Bryant must abide are as follows:

• A midnight curfew. If he's going to miss curfew, team officials must know in advance;


• No drinking alcohol.

• He can't attend any strip clubs and can only attend nightclubs if they are approved by the team and he has a security team with him.

• He must attend counseling sessions twice a week.

• A rotating three-man security team will leave one man with Bryant at all times.

• Members of the security team will drive Bryant to practices, games and team functions.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story...here-strict-team-mandated-guidelines-behavior

 

[Quiddity]

Blackhawks are all over Chicago news and even some national news for their star player being investigated for rape...that's pretty embarrassing.

Who knows if he did anything "wrong" by the law. I think any company who owes $84 million facing criminal investigation would be pretty embarrassed regardless.

As a public figure he's held to a higher standard than the regular guy. That includes representing the brand, staying out of the news for rape investigation, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for all we know Kane has never even met the accuser.

 

[Easton Modano Curve]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for all we know Kane has never even met the accuser.

We don't know.

Does that take away the Hawks' brass embarrassment for being all over the news for the franchise player being investigated for rape?

 

[Quiddity]

We don't know.

Does that take away the Hawks' brass embarrassment for being all over the news for the franchise player being investigated for rape?

The embarrassment, at this point, stems only from an accusation. Since we don't know the validity of the accusation, how do we assess the extent to which Kane "embarrassed and compromised his employer"?

 

[BrianE]

The Dallas Cowboys hired a guy to just follow Dez Bryant around. I understand that Kane has matured by all reports...but this guy has already had a couple of embarrassing events. Do whatever it takes to keep your $84 million investment on the straight and narrow.

Regardless of the outcome at this point there has been a lot of damage done. Trying to wait for the facts but it's already a real sad situation all the way around.

Dez Bryant rules with first contract:

Sources say some of the rules Bryant must abide are as follows:

• A midnight curfew. If he's going to miss curfew, team officials must know in advance;


• No drinking alcohol.

• He can't attend any strip clubs and can only attend nightclubs if they are approved by the team and he has a security team with him.

• He must attend counseling sessions twice a week.

• A rotating three-man security team will leave one man with Bryant at all times.

• Members of the security team will drive Bryant to practices, games and team functions.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story...here-strict-team-mandated-guidelines-behavior

Wow unreal, something President Clinton & Dennis Rodman once needed.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

The embarrassment, at this point, stems only from an accusation. Since we don't know the validity of the accusation, how do we assess the extent to which Kane "embarrassed and compromised his employer"?

I'll leave aside the "compromised his employer" part - but that's trickier and IDK if i'd agree with it.

But as far as the "embarrassed" part...come on, the Hawks are probably the most image obsessed team in the league...I can't think of any 'high profile' NHL team that exerts the control the Hawks do over their message, including with the media (the only other teams - who immediately come to mind - as having the profile the Hawks do are the Leafs, Habs, and NYR...and those teams have zero control over the media).

Before Rocky, then McD, came along, the Hawks local profile was in the dumpster (I realize that was due to Old Man Wirtz, not the fans themselves) - and they rejuvenated the team's profile in a fairly short time (yes, I get the team's success was part and parcel to that)

Keep in mind that the Hawks booted that female CSN(?) reporter after she 'misspoke' on a local broadcast with a somewhat 'sexual' term and immediately after, I guess, 'racy' videos of her popped up. I realize that some on air reporter is disposable in a way that players aren't - but having one of the two main faces of the franchise (and the most high-profile US born player in the league) having rape accusations hovering over him is a complete nightmare for the team. And even if the Buffalo police were to announce tomorrow morning that no charges will be laid it's still a disaster.