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Speculation: Kaliyev trade...

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HabsAddict said:
There was a player (Micheal Rydrr) that i personally scouted him in the AHL and didn't think much about his vision, but he did manage to eek out a short NHL career.

His problem wss that he had a quick and deadly shot yhat he got off in a hurry, scoring as many as 30 twice and 35 once, but he was out of yhe league and "past his prime" by yhe time he was in his early 30s.

I haven't personally scouted Kaliyev nor followed his career enough to make a definitive opinion, but what i gather from you guys, he's pretty limited and not progressing.

I kmow we want to ble managemant, but yhe vast majority of the time it's the player. Often it's lack of vision which is normally a terminal flaw. You can't teach IQ or processing the game. I don't know if this is Kaliyevs fatal flaw, but if it is, well, it is what it is and move on from him.

My interest is to trade for him, obviously at a lower risk price and see if he can turn it around and maybe progress in other aspects. He can't improve his vision, but maybe he starts to utilize his size and maybe add dome speed to his deadly shot. Or not.

I don't what his future looks like, but as a GM, i would have him scouted, analyzed and go from there.

His return is likely a second or a B prospect. That is my opinion and i rather not get into mine is bigger then yours on value.
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I have said it before, and I mean no offense but it is my opinion he has some mild special needs issue.

It comes from my professional experience and some observations about how he interacted with other players off the ice.

I do think he has not been deployed correctly but at times he has defensive lapses.

Now he is being somewhat scapegoated by the organization, ala Tanner Pearson
s
I mean when you acquire PLD and he ships the bed, have no room for deadline moves, really that is a bigger problem than one players lapses.

Blake needs to condense the roster aND have room for younger players, maybe a tough player, LHD, goalie, so what you got in a package.?

We like Arber and have Lizotte , Grundstrom , and Englund/



The second priority would be moving up at the draft or picks or a reclamation project.

I don't see much I like on your roster but don't know it well.

I think you said you won't be taking Dubois.
 
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Surf Nutz said:
I have said it before, and I mean no offense but it is my opinion he has some mild special needs issue.

It comes from my professional experience and some observations about how he interacted with other players off the ice.

I do think he has not been deployed correctly but at times he has defensive lapses.

Now he is being somewhat scapegoated by the organization, ala Tanner Pearson
s
I mean when you acquire PLD and he ships the bed, have no room for deadline moves, really that is a bigger problem than one players lapses.

Blake needs to condense the roster aND have room for younger players, maybe a tough player, LHD, goalie, so what you got in a package.?

We like Arber and have Lizotte , Grundstrom , and Englund/



The second priority would be moving up at the draft or picks or a reclamation project.

I don't see much I like on your roster but don't know it well.

I think you said you won't be taking Dubois.
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We have a surplus of very young 5-6 NHL level defenseman that have an outside chance of developing into top 4. We literally have a 8 nhl defenseman and more coming. Two are Mailioux and Hutson who may be top 4 in themselves. I think we are trying to corner the market...lol

I can see one of surplus fitting in value. My concern is if Kaliyev doesn't work out were going to move on from him. Pretty much losing his value, but on the other hand sooner or later we are going to lose our surplus to waivers.

It looks like a fit...but...who knows. We shall sed what happens in the next few weeks.

EDIT...about Dubois. It's like a recurring nightmare. You're in the desert, dying of thirst then see this oasis. It turns out to be a puddle...surrounded by alligators. We need offense to step to the next level, but he's only appears to be a solution, but turns into a mirage. Sad.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
That is definitely not his problem. He’s got a high-end offensive IQ. Everyone is so focused on his shot but he’s a very good playmaker, in juniors he learned that people would cheat to him and he learned how to use his shot to draw attention to make the plays.

This org just reduces his puck touches to damn near nothing so that has yet to manifest in simlar manner in the NHL but it’s not because he’s stupid, it’s because they refuse to give him that opportunity. Or the argument will be that he’s been on the 2nd PP< butthat’s for like 20 seconds at the very end after he sits for 10 minutes at a time then people go GOD DAMNIT ARTY WHY ARENT YOU SCORING when they try to feed the stone cold player a flopping puck right before a guy escapes the box and wonder why he’s in his own head (and they summarily ignore that on pace vs time he was one of the most productive PP goal scorers in the NHL)

Whoever takes a chance on him is gonna get insane value and make Blake look really stupid. I’m on board with both.
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Don't get me too excited!

I hope your assessment is spot on and we get a monster for the price of a hamster. But then, even hamsters bite...

Let's see if our management bobble heads can work it out.

I've been to 17 Hab cup parades and now, i wonder if I'm going to be "Leafed" and never see another cup.
 
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HabsAddict said:
We have a surplus of very young 5-6 NHL level defenseman that have an outside chance of developing into top 4. We literally have a 8 nhl defenseman and more coming. Two are Mailioux and Hutson who may be top 4 in themselves. I think we are trying to corner the market...lol

I can see one of surplus fitting in value. My concern is if Kaliyev doesn't work out were going to move on from him. Pretty much losing his value, but on the other hand sooner or later we are going to lose our surplus to waivers.

It looks like a fit...but...who knows. We shall sed what happens in the next few weeks.

EDIT...about Dubois. It's like a recurring nightmare. You're in the desert, dying of thirst then see this oasis. It turns out to be a puddle...surrounded by alligators. We need offense to step to the next level, but he's only appears to be a solution, but turns into a mirage. Sad.
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So we could use a surplus LHD, especially if they fight.

Definitely don't want a RHD unless both Roy and Doughty decide to leave.
l
Englund and Gavrikov are LHD's expiring at the end of the season, Gavri hodling a NMC.
 
Jericho111091 said:
Kings media hasn't had the guts to call out management since Rosen got in trouble for criticizing the Toffoli trade
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I still think it's crazy that Rosen reported in April 2023 on Blake going against the recommendation of his scouts at the 2019 draft (citing three different sources in the organization). And here we are in June 2024 and it has never once been discussed (as far as I know) by anyone else covering the team, including one notable person who I think we all agree is very connected with sources in the organization.

Makes you wonder.
 
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MonkeysUncle said:
What about Jayden Struble or Adam Engstrom ?

​

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Struble has surprised us with some very solid basic, minimal error defense. Also pretty tough.

I didn't think he was NHL level so was pleasantly suprised and don't mind eating crow.

His upside? I don't know. He's only 22 and I don't see why he can't be a defensive partner to a more aggressive offensive defenseman. In our world, a partner to someone like Mailioux...except we already have far tougher defenseman who can do that in X and Guhle.

Is he worth Kaliyev? Probably and maybe LA needs to put in a small plus.

This overabundance of defenseman is cool and great and fun...but at some point you got to whittle down the herd while taking the minimum damage on asset management.

There may also be an opportunity to expand on this with other LA young forwards going nowhere fast. We seem to have a bit of reputation to turning things around...see Newhook and Dach.

We'll see soon enough...
 
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HabsAddict said:
Struble has surprised us with some very solid basic, minimal error defense. Also pretty tough.

I didn't think he was NHL level so was pleasantly suprised and don't mind eating crow.

His upside? I don't know. He's only 22 and I don't see why he can't be a defensive partner to a more aggressive offensive defenseman. In our world, a partner to someone like Mailioux...except we already have far tougher defenseman who can do that in X and Guhle.

Is he worth Kaliyev? Probably and maybe LA needs to put in a small plus.

This overabundance of defenseman is cool and great and fun...but at some point you got to whittle down the herd while taking the minimum damage on asset management.

There may also be an opportunity to expand on this with other LA young forwards going nowhere fast. We seem to have a bit of reputation to turning things around...see Newhook and Dach.

We'll see soon enough...
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What about swapping the 21st and the 26th? Is that fair? What about your 3rd as well? Too much?
 
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SmytheKing said:
What about swapping the 21st and the 26th? Is that fair? What about your 3rd as well? Too much?
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I don't know.

Trades between fans all too often turn into mine is bigger then yours...so I'm not going to get into that.

I have a tough time evaluating the value of Kaliyev. Is he a potential 30goal 60 point guy or a reclamation project with a high probability of failure?

In the Struble offer, it's more solidly based. You are getting a 22 year 5th defensive defenseman NOW with a potential of breaking into top 4 by his mid 20s.

Is the trade fair? I don't know. It looks slightly overpay if the odds are that Kaliyev is what he is and there is nothing more. Or huge underpay if, if, if he's a 30/60.
 
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HabsAddict said:
Struble has surprised us with some very solid basic, minimal error defense. Also pretty tough.

I didn't think he was NHL level so was pleasantly suprised and don't mind eating crow.

His upside? I don't know. He's only 22 and I don't see why he can't be a defensive partner to a more aggressive offensive defenseman. In our world, a partner to someone like Mailioux...except we already have far tougher defenseman who can do that in X and Guhle.

Is he worth Kaliyev? Probably and maybe LA needs to put in a small plus.

This overabundance of defenseman is cool and great and fun...but at some point you got to whittle down the herd while taking the minimum damage on asset management.

There may also be an opportunity to expand on this with other LA young forwards going nowhere fast. We seem to have a bit of reputation to turning things around...see Newhook and Dach.

We'll see soon enough...
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I honestly just don't know the players but appreciate the info.

Really a lot depends on what Blake intends to do with Gavrikov, who has been pretty stellar defensively with Roy.

I was hoping for more offense from him, I know he has had an injury issue.

We also have Jacob Moverare, whom we do not want to lose on waivers, I would hope.
 
HabsAddict said:
I don't know.

Trades between fans all too often turn into mine is bigger then yours...so I'm not going to get into that.

I have a tough time evaluating the value of Kaliyev. Is he a potential 30goal 60 point guy or a reclamation project with a high probability of failure?

In the Struble offer, it's more solidly based. You are getting a 22 year 5th defensive defenseman NOW with a potential of breaking into top 4 by his mid 20s.

Is the trade fair? I don't know. It looks slightly overpay if the odds are that Kaliyev is what he is and there is nothing more. Or huge underpay if, if, if he's a 30/60.
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I would wait to see if someone offers a 2nd for Kaliyev or maybe add Kaliyev with 21st to move up. I would also not mind if Kings move back and pick up more picks
if player they're not looking is there. Saw a proposal from Chicago getting 21st for both their 2nds one of there 3rds and 3rd next year. Not sure if that an overpayment or in the ballpark. Trade proposals are hard to gauge
 
Omni Owl said:
Pretty much. Blake has solidified himself as an easy mark among other GM's. The fleecing in the Dubious deal solidifies it. At least you knew Lombardi played hard ball and wouldn't be had so easily.
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Let's see if they put Pld in position to succeed and it's not rocket science to see where and how he is most effective. I dont have faith they will do it, but let's give it one more year to see how the trade works out. As of now yes it does not look great, but I put most of the blame on management . They should have known who they were acquiring and how to use him.
 
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MonkeysUncle said:
I would wait to see if someone offers a 2nd for Kaliyev or maybe add Kaliyev with 21st to move up. I would also not mind if Kings move back and pick up more picks
if player they're not looking is there. Saw a proposal from Chicago getting 21st for both their 2nds one of there 3rds and 3rd next year. Not sure if that an overpayment or in the ballpark. Trade proposals are hard to gauge
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Definitely don't see Blake moving down, it's up , a trade for a GT, a big reshuffle or bust , I feel.
Omni Owl said:
Pretty much. Blake has solidified himself as an easy mark among other GM's. The fleecing in the Dubious deal solidifies it. At least you knew Lombardi played hard ball and wouldn't be had so easily.
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Kings looked great out of the gate on the road, but I saw the uneven record t home even then. The jets had some very high points during the season but

bottom line did not make it out of the first round.

Vilardi is money around the net but slow often injured and doesn't do much else.

Iafallo was getting paid too much and is replaceable by cheaper. He surfs and I loved the guys utility.

Kupari seems to be a flop, I had high hopes for him, he might go back to Europe.

I have heard ND seen enough from PLD, he would have been bought out already as the price is going up.

Mayor say he is going up the lineup with Byfield and Fiala as a winger and that's a good move.
Lt Dan said:
Austin Stanovich is watching us

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Yeah this board pretty much shapes everything that happens in the NHL

(Meglomaniacal laughter)
 
Lt Dan said:
A Kaliyev trade would be best with conditional picks. If can he spontaneously combusts or continues the suck
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That makes a lot of sense.

It wont be a major add, somethinv like a 3rd/4th if he scores 20+ goals.

A trade for Struble would be low risk vs who he being traded for. So the balance would be adding some conditionals on it.

I can't see any serious organization trying to limit a guy who they want to ignite and build on by limiting his ice time so he can't score. A 3rd/4th is not as valuable as getting Kaliyev to the next level. It just takes a bit of the sting of the GM who made it.
 
HabsAddict said:
I don't know.

Trades between fans all too often turn into mine is bigger then yours...so I'm not going to get into that.

I have a tough time evaluating the value of Kaliyev. Is he a potential 30goal 60 point guy or a reclamation project with a high probability of failure?

In the Struble offer, it's more solidly based. You are getting a 22 year 5th defensive defenseman NOW with a potential of breaking into top 4 by his mid 20s.

Is the trade fair? I don't know. It looks slightly overpay if the odds are that Kaliyev is what he is and there is nothing more. Or huge underpay if, if, if he's a 30/60.
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Fair enough. I feel like at worst you're going to get a 20/20 guy. He was trending that way until the Kings, for some reason, decided they just didn't want to play him at all. He's been putting up about 15 goals playing with 4th liners and no PP time. It's truly baffling the way they handled him and no one is really explaining why. I mean, the head of their scouting even said the Kings have failed him to some degree.

Is he going to be a 30-goal guy? I wouldn't be shocked honestly, but it's going to depend on where he's placed too. I don't see him as a guy who will do it himself, but there's no reason he CAN'T score 30 in the NHL. If I'm another team I'm not trading for his POTENTIAL 30 goals, but he's going to be a lock for at least 20. I think you're going to get good value for him at this point because the Kings have absolutely destroyed their leverage with him.

Mostly I just don't know enough about Struble to say what would be fair so I'm more or less relying on what you say about him. Asking about the 3rd is just me being greedy and trying to establish what Montreal is giving up. Seems like a swap of players and flipping 1sts might be reasonable...but like you said...no idea really.
 
MonkeysUncle said:
I would wait to see if someone offers a 2nd for Kaliyev or maybe add Kaliyev with 21st to move up. I would also not mind if Kings move back and pick up more picks
if player they're not looking is there. Saw a proposal from Chicago getting 21st for both their 2nds one of there 3rds and 3rd next year. Not sure if that an overpayment or in the ballpark. Trade proposals are hard to gauge
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VGK are 2 picks in front of us and are severely cap strapped. AK can score and it low cost controlled which might be a big thing for them. If there’s a person LA is really interested in I could see that deal being made.
 
SmytheKing said:
Fair enough. I feel like at worst you're going to get a 20/20 guy. He was trending that way until the Kings, for some reason, decided they just didn't want to play him at all. He's been putting up about 15 goals playing with 4th liners and no PP time. It's truly baffling the way they handled him and no one is really explaining why. I mean, the head of their scouting even said the Kings have failed him to some degree.
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He saw plenty of pp time until Jan, but lack of production cost him , then he fell out of favor with the coaches. The most pp TOI was in Dec and had no pp goals, and one assist. He was shooting either high and wide or right into the goalie. He then lost his spot on pp 2.
 
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