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Speculation: Kaliyev trade...

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King'sPawn said:
The Pacioretty near-deal is a bad look, for sure, but there are plenty of things that have been actualized we can criticize/discuss.
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For sure.

Less pushback on criticizing this near-deal now than in the past since most are on board with thinking Blake sucks. Point was that DL was crucified for moving futures and Blake tried to move his second chance at making a first round pick. If you like the coup narrative, Blake trading a 1st for Patches one season removed from DL getting canned is some real catnip.

Maybe it actually would have been better if he was able to make the deal. Kings still would have sucked. Wound up getting nothing for Muzzin in the end (wasn't it Muzzin + 1st for Patches?) and he wasted that pick on Kupari who then became part of the nightmare PLD package.

The opposite of the "failed" Kovy signing and Brad Richards acquisition for DL.
 
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BigKing said:
For sure.

Less pushback on criticizing this near-deal now than in the past since most are on board with thinking Blake sucks. Point was that DL was crucified for moving futures and Blake tried to move his second chance at making a first round pick. If you like the coup narrative, Blake trading a 1st for Patches one season removed from DL getting canned is some real catnip.

Maybe it actually would have been better if he was able to make the deal. Kings still would have sucked. Wound up getting nothing for Muzzin in the end (wasn't it Muzzin + 1st for Patches?) and he wasted that pick on Kupari who then became part of the nightmare PLD package.

The opposite of the "failed" Kovy signing and Brad Richards acquisition for DL.
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Just to address a couple of points here from different posts, but the rumored plan was that Brisson was negotiating deals for BOTH Kovalchuk and Pacioretty to fit in under the cap and that the Montreal deal fizzled because Pacioretty balked at being given a very, very short window to decide on a 3 year, $6.5mil extension. He didn't like it and fired Brisson shortly after - presumedly for the way that was handled.

The rumored trade wasn't for the first that year, it was for the 2nd rounder used on Thomas, JAD and Muzzin to create the cap room for both wingers.
 
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bland said:
Just to address a couple of points here from different posts, but the rumored plan was that Brisson was negotiating deals for BOTH Kovalchuk and Pacioretty to fit in under the cap and that the Montreal deal fizzled because Pacioretty balked at being given a very, very short window to decide on a 3 year, $6.5mil extension. He didn't like it and fired Brisson shortly after - presumedly for the way that was handled.

The rumored trade wasn't for the first that year, it was for the 2nd rounder used on Thomas, JAD and Muzzin to create the cap room for both wingers.
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Sounds like rebuilding.
 
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Dan Beckerman literally said the team was a champion and he was firing Dean Lombardi in order to hire BLuc to make that happen.

All the context between then and now is pure dog shit because the team has never been close to a champion since then and Kopitar plus Doughty are still here.

The excuse makers can suck a fat D, because they are carrying water for a couple of losers who are getting paid big money by AEG to milk fan sentiment for all it’s worth and then some.
 
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DoktorJeep said:
Dan Beckerman literally said the team was a champion and he was firing Dean Lombardi in order to hire BLuc to make that happen.

All the context between then and now is pure dog shit because the team has never been close to a champion since then and Kopitar plus Doughty are still here.

The excuse makers can suck a fat D, because they are carrying water for a couple of losers who are getting paid big money by AEG to milk fan sentiment for all it’s at this point , but I would have them on short leash. I could be wrong but I think this is what happens when you have ownership that so hands off
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DoktorJeep said:
Dan Beckerman literally said the team was a champion and he was firing Dean Lombardi in order to hire BLuc to make that happen.

All the context between then and now is pure dog shit because the team has never been close to a champion since then and Kopitar plus Doughty are still here.

The excuse makers can suck a fat D, because they are carrying water for a couple of losers who are getting paid big money by AEG to milk fan sentiment for all it’s worth and then some.
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Maybe I am.wromg, but I think this is what happens when you have ownership that so hands off.
 
DoktorJeep said:
This is what happens when ownership treats the franchise as a break even operation in the fourth biggest market in the league.
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It does seem like it will be staus quo unless team misses playoffs. As a Kings fan I really hope something magically changes with the way this organization sees things from top to bottom. I don't see that happening as when the people in charge really believe in what they are doing. I can hope though
 
MonkeysUncle said:
It does seem like it will be staus quo unless team misses playoffs. As a Kings fan I really hope something magically changes with the way this organization sees things from top to bottom. I don't see that happening as when the people in charge really believe in what they are doing. I can hope though
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This is the one actual hope diamond in the mountain of shit we are buried in. All it’s takes is one missed playoffs from here on out for regime change.
 
MonkeysUncle said:
Only thing on that. I could see Luc selling out Blake and staying. It has to be a 100% management cleaning and outside people coming to revamp and bring in new ideas
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All things being equal, I think Blake is actually more qualified than Luc as a hockey manager. If we’re saving face, Rob should get bumped up and Luc bumped out. Let Rob then be the guy to glad hand corporate sponsors and season ticket holders. Still plenty of time off to maintain his existing work life balance.

And then bring in a guy who graduated college and knows how to open an excel file to put the right guys on the ice to win within the salary cap constraints.
 
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BigKing said:
Sounds like rebuilding.
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I remember my huge issue then was that they were trying to do play both ends at the same time. Instead of concentrating on either retooling a veteran roster OR rebuilding for the future, they wanted to keep the first rounder AND spend to the cap. Called it a fools errand then and it played out accordingly.

I will add that since Blake has largely squandered the assets acquired in the Muzzin and Clifford trades that we can now remove the "he did well in those deals" narrative from his resume.

There hasn't been one - not one - clear cut win in Blake's column since he was hired.
 
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DoktorJeep said:
All things being equal, I think Blake is actually more qualified than Luc as a hockey manager. If we’re saving face, Rob should get bumped up and Luc bumped out. Let Rob then be the guy to glad hand corporate sponsors and season ticket holders. Still plenty of time to maintain his existing work life balance.

And then bring in a guy who graduated college and knows how to open an excel file to put the right guys on the ice to win within the salary cap constraints.
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I agree. I have always thought Luc more of an issue than Blake, but unfortunately I cant see him being the one that stays if it happens. That's why I say it would have to complete change.
 
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bland said:
I remember my huge issue then was that they were trying to do play both ends at the same time. Instead of concentrating on either retooling a veteran roster OR rebuilding for the future, they wanted to keep the first rounder AND spend to the cap. Called it a fools errand then and it played out accordingly.

I will add that since Blake has largely squandered the assets acquired in the Muzzin and Clifford trades that we can now remove the "he did well in those deals" narrative from his resume.

There hasn't been one - not one - clear cut win in Blake's column since he was hired.
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Good thing Trevor Moore happened to grow up in the Los Angeles area otherwise I’m sure he never would’ve been included in that trade.
 
bland said:
I remember my huge issue then was that they were trying to do play both ends at the same time. Instead of concentrating on either retooling a veteran roster OR rebuilding for the future, they wanted to keep the first rounder AND spend to the cap. Called it a fools errand then and it played out accordingly.

I will add that since Blake has largely squandered the assets acquired in the Muzzin and Clifford trades that we can now remove the "he did well in those deals" narrative from his resume.

There hasn't been one - not one - clear cut win in Blake's column since he was hired.
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Well, getting Moore in the Clifford/Campbell trade is a win, but it is embarrassing that he got a better return for those two then he did for Muzzin when all is said and done.

Durzi is the best piece of that Muzzin deal and he eventually wound up giving him away.

Imagine looking at this current roster, pipeline and cap situation after the 2020 draft. Impressively bad management by Bowlby.
 
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Herby said:
So 3 months and 13 games after signing Ilya Kovalchuk to a 3 year $19m deal to bolster a playoff roster, the Kings were in full tank mode?
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Yup like PLD the writing was on the wall as your posts from that time period indicated!

:thumbu:
 
This post also has to do with Arty and why the Kings and Arty are at this juncture.
I blame the Kings....not Arty. (although I never found that apparent quote / or clue by TMac in January, that had to do with Arty. Please elaborate, if you know what that was)

Even Blake said last yr exit interview - or pre-Summer one, that 'Arthur needs to be top 6"
I know he said it...and cannot recall the camp or Australia,...if Arty didn't have a good one, yet
was playing with PL. However, Arty was never given a real top 6 chance. And was banished from PL's line and either line 4 or scratched. I am not giving Blake any credit here (but even he knew Arty needs to be top 6) but the truth is, Arty needed a real chance. Once Arvy was out, Arty should have taken his place, with Danault and Moore ...and left there, for more than a few games.

Here's a long list of King forwards, that can never amount to anything, more than a line 4 (line 3, for a few games if you're really lucky and played systems to a T and stayed in your rigid role, given)

JAD, Kupari, Fagemo, Grundstrom (to a degree, his upside limited) and even Turcotte. He could have got more games his first callup. I'm not sure if Amadio could be included, that's going back a ways. But the history of King youth forwards, lack of success or upward mobility. There will always be a few select (1 every 4 yrs) that can buck the system...Vilardi and QB. But, even they were going up and down to the AHL 2 years and even both messed around from C to W !
You can say Kupari was limited...BUT, was it the Kings that limited him? Maybe if he was coached by dev team better...he'd be a better player. Maybe not. But dev could have neutered him for his future and what he is. But, he was never going to be top 6. Kind of like how Amadio has become more and scored 15 last yr 22-23 (I think, not going to look it up - at least he became more than he ever would with the Kings)

This is a Kings ORGANIZATION problem. It comes from the top "the way we want to play'....to the dev staff, to the coaching and then it's on the young players to succeed JUST at that...their role.
Players are never asked to do more! And it even seems, to not even try to do more...'we have other players in place for those roles' Play your role and maybe you'll someday (year) get a chance at a greater role.

The Kings need players that can 'escape' the way the Kings force their young players to play the system, play the role you are told, we are defense first, you must play that way....and bust through that BS, by being too good to be forced into that ultimately instinct killer for your young players. It seems the way past that, is a player that CAN play the Kings system, can forecheck, can play defense, but be so skilled, they can do all that and do more and force their way into getting a chance. (like PP2 mins and a top 6 shift now and then. C'mon, it's the Kings, don;t expect more than that)

They are even making Clarke pay more dues than necessary. The only players they actually gave a chance the last few years, was due to injuries. Durzi in for Drew...and Laferriere in for Arvidsson.
Without those injuries - Durzi stays in the AHL and Laferriere would have just spent the year in the AHL.

This needs to change, more than anything. Let Turcotte, Akil and Clarke play real minutes and be given real opportunities. Akil was great, scoring 3 in his last 6 and was on the PK and looked awesome...then gets sent down. I guess I get that, with Arvy coming back. But I would have kept him up for the playoffs and let Carl sit. I understand they wanted Akil, Turcotte in the AHL playoffs and we all knew Clarke was banished there.
 
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Peter James Bond III said:
This post also has to do with Arty and why the Kings and Arty are at this juncture.
I blame the Kings....not Arty. (although I never found that apparent quote / or clue by TMac in January, that had to do with Arty. Please elaborate, if you know what that was)

Even Blake said last yr exit interview - or pre-Summer one, that 'Arthur needs to be top 6"
I know he said it...and cannot recall the camp or Australia,...if Arty didn't have a good one, yet
was playing with PL. However, Arty was never given a real top 6 chance. And was banished from PL's line and either line 4 or scratched. I am not giving Blake any credit here (but even he knew Arty needs to be top 6) but the truth is, Arty needed a real chance. Once Arvy was out, Arty should have taken his place, with Danault and Moore ...and left there, for more than a few games.
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he was significantly corsi positive with everybody except JAD, who hilariously was corsi negative with everybody he played with. he was good with phil and moore, just not as good as fiala (maybe small sample). i think he just didn't play their dumb ass system "right" which made him an easy scapegoat

now ironically they're like "man we gotta change the system!" and arty's practically on a flight out by every media mouthpiece
 
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tny760 said:
he was significantly corsi positive with everybody except JAD, who hilariously was corsi negative with everybody he played with. he was good with phil and moore, just not as good as fiala (maybe small sample). i think he just didn't play their dumb ass system "right" which made him an easy scapegoat

now ironically they're like "man we gotta change the system!" and arty's practically on a flight out by every media mouthpiece
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These dumbshits need take some incoming rotten tomatoes next presser. The audacity to pretend they are running a hockey team properly and what they did and are doing makes sense. Hiller putting JAD on the 3rd line multiple times is where he lost me. Than game 5 at the end (6 on 5) he puts PLD and leaves Byfield on the pine.. These people need to be rolled up in a carpet and dropped in a dumpster. The lot of them.
 
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Herby said:
Put yourself in his shoes. He sees comparable players all over the league contributing and making an NHL salary, while he is in the AHL making less than an In-N-Out manager



I couldn't care less what type of fan you think I am. Your lack of awareness of the real world rivals your lack of awareness in the hockey one. You do know that CA has had a huge exodus of people leave the state, and guess what, many of them are posters here, and have been posters here long before you blessed us with your bizarre presence.

Yeah we can't judge a trade 3 years later. Let's trade our 1st this year for a 3rd liner, if the 1st ends up being a great player you can sit here and tell us it doesn't matter.

Ya, unlucky Rob Blake, his #5 overall pick is going to be a bottom six player in year 6 instead of a bottom six player in year 4. Totally a great pick and all bad luck.

Ha, going to parrot Luc and Pravda's talking points on McDavid, of course. Losing to the eventual champs in 5 games doesn't make you a contender Muzz. Nobody would call the Clippers or Miami Dolphins title contenders, and they did the same thing as the Kings.

Why trade Roy? Because you are a team severely lacking skill and you have a young player in the minors who can generate offense from the blue line at an elite level. And because you lack high end talent at the NHL level and in the pipeline (thanks Rob!) you could use the first round pick to improve in those areas.

What did Luc and the "Frenchies" do to meddle in what Blake wanted to do? Please give details. Again, what kind of person who disagreed with decisions made by those above him (that would be saddled on him) would sit on his hands and do nothing. Blake will almost surely never get an NHL GM job after this debacle, you are saying he wasn't to blame but just accepted it while at the same time telling the media why he did it? Makes a ton of sense.

Of course you skim over points that completely contradict the nonsense you spew here. Sorry Muzz, I assume that we are all adults here and can have an educated, adult discussion. I guess not.

Of course you would take shots at Rosen, the best and most professional person to ever cover this team. You criticize Rosen while parroting and regurgitating the nonsense spewed by Pravda. Lenin had a term for people like you, look it up.
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Useful idiots.
I'm old enough to remember when they used to teach this stuff as important history.
You know, like "those who ignore history..."
 
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AbsentMojo said:
These dumbshits need take some incoming rotten tomatoes next presser. The audacity to pretend they are running a hockey team properly and what they did and are doing makes sense. Hiller putting JAD on the 3rd line multiple times is where he lost me. Than game 5 at the end (6 on 5) he puts PLD and leaves Byfield on the pine.. These people need to be rolled up in a carpet and dropped in a dumpster. The lot of them.
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Did anyone call out the Kings for leaving Vilardi/Byfield/Kaliyev on the pine for game 6 a year ago?

I think it was Kaliyev watching from the rafters?

Now if that decision wasn't called out, I don't know what will.
 
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The whole Kaliyev thing doesn't make sense to me, other than as previous comments mentioned, he doesn't fit the Kings' system wants/desires.

I thought he was going to get more ice time after 2021-22, and he hasn't. He should have gotten more run in the top 6, akin to DeBrincat getting more opportunities in Chicago after he started there. I think the 2022 Playoff appearance shifted everything, from potential longer rebuild/retool to "speed it up towards another deep run/Cup while Kopitar and Doughty are still quality contributors". I would suspect that is the fault of AEG, so they put pressure on Blake and Robitaille to chase immediate wins over longer term sustainability. As a result, Kaliyev gets f***ed over. TMac deserves blame for sure as well.
 
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