Prospect Info: Kaiden Guhle Part III (Traded to Oil Kings)

[Bacchus1]

Guhl seems to be a steady presence on the back end, and will make players apprehensive entering our zone. I just hope he does play some AHL and is asked to work on his offensive side of things. If he is big and strong with good har accurate passes, he should be able to develop his scoring and tap-in/deflection assist games

 

[MXD]

Theodore seemed to get a lot more chances to break Out than usual, and when he started to stink he was still given too many chances. The list goes on.

More like "thrust in a role he wasn't ready for" (which prompted trading for Andy Moog) since there was no one else, then earned his way up by outplaying Tomas Vokoun (and putting up good performances in the playoffs when neither Moog or Thibault were cutting it) and on his one year where he was truly bad, he was sent packing (for an even worse netminder to save money). So.. yeah, you got this one wrong. Even his so-called "bad" 02-03 was about league-average (and statistically somewhat similar to Carey Price 19-20).

 

[ZUKI]

I don't buy it, I just don't. Show me the pressure guys like Drouin have gotten in the last few years? Is it because he's been exposed as a fraud? And some fans have turned on him? Cuz it sure as hell ain't the media who has (except some exceptions and only recently).

And pray tell WHICH media puts pressure on the players? cuz all i'm hearing, all the time, is the same word vomit from the incompetent media. No one ever asks pointed questions, no one ever questions their actual game. It's always "how did you feel after you scored that goal? Or do you like poutine?". Always dumb questions.

Heck, even MB who has unanimously f***ed this team into the next decade has faced nearly zero criticism from the press. Cuz he speaks french. On the other hand, Cunneyworth was MERCILESSLY destroyed, after inheriting a role he didn't even ask for, but took it like a man. Why? Cuz he was an anglo.

So ya, don't give me this bs about the press being hard on French players, cuz it's just not true. I speak both languages fluently and I would avoid the press like the plague because they are just so f***ing stupid. It's embarassing.

My God ! I guess that you didn't receive the gift you wanted for Christmas...

A lot of frustrations and victimization here . When someone put all the people in the same basket, and shit on them, that say a lot about that person.

 

[Runner77]

Guys, this is a Guhle thread. I'm not here to read about Theodore's hair follicles.

Almost every thread is turning into a language debate. There are other sites for that kind of stuff, why bring it up here? What does it have to do with Ghule?

I thought the site was supposed to be a diversion from the endless grind of language polemics and identity politics. But no, why don’t we flood this place too cause apparently we don’t have enough of them already.

Yes, our media is not up to snuff in either language — but we do have a media thread for that.

 

[Bacchus1]

More like "thrust in a role he wasn't ready for" (which prompted trading for Andy Moog) since there was no one else, then earned his way up by outplaying Tomas Vokoun (and putting up good performances in the playoffs when neither Moog or Thibault were cutting it) and on his one year where he was truly bad, he was sent packing (for an even worse netminder to save money). So.. yeah, you got this one wrong. Even his so-called "bad" 02-03 was about league-average (and statistically somewhat similar to Carey Price 19-20).

Yeah, so Vokoun was a much better goalie and should never have been exposed to the expansion draft, but he was because Theodore was chosen to be the successor of Roy.

Jose was thrust into the role because we had dreams of another Québécois rookie goalie coming up and winning the cup.

The advantage he got was he got at least one extra year burnt of his entry contract, and he was allowed to learn on the job.

Imagine if we had kept Vokun over Theodore in the expansion draft—exposing Theodore instead. First, what would the fans and the media say? What would the impact have been on our team?

Theodore had some success, but the year he won the Vezina there wasn’t much competition as a lot of good goalies had recently retired, were getting older, or were injured. He didn’t even have the most wins or goals against average, but basically won on save%. I remember that year he seemed to have a horse shoe up his a$$, but it was a good year for him. But overall, I never felt that Jose was as good as his reputation. He played just after Brodeur, Roy, and Hasek’s prime — but at a time that those goalies were still able to play well enough or get resigned on the hope of a resurgence.

 

[themilosh]

I’ve heard many times about players being recognized when they are out and about in the Montreal area, and I’ve heard of players enjoying the anonymity of not being recognized in other cities. Imagine every time you go to a public bathroom there is someone who wants a selfie with you. It effects quality of life.

After an F1 race in the 90s, I had to help JV get all dressed in a disguise, dude actually wore a wig/hat/shades; to walk from the Plateaux to a resraurant on St.Lawrence (like 2 blocks).

 

[Redux91]

I did not like Guhle game tonight.

I love his hit first mentality but it should be tempered with opportunity, not to blind single mindedness. He made a glaring mistake in the first period where he was caught hiting far too deep in the opposition zone. That is an absolute nono unless his back is covered and even then, still not the first option.

He needs to calm way down instead of picking the checking option at every opportunity he gets. That's not how the game is played. First rule is he needs to keep the player from making a play, second rule is to separate the man from the puck, putting him on a stretcher is optional. He's mostly working on the stretcher part which will get him in trouble in the NHL. Yes, you always play the man, but to keep him from making a play or stripping the puck, not removing his teeth.

Next issue is his constant last man back mentality. He's passing up lanes and opportunities. He reflexively and quickly moves the puck forward but it also means that he's not giving it to the best player with the most opportunity. A puck heading up the boards for a man that is double covered is simply surrendering puck possession and another rush back into his zone. Of course he shouldn't pass it through the center zone, but he should use his excellent skating to move it up and create more passing lanes.

Tonight was not a very good night for his level of talent.

Lmao
And meanwhile Ben Chiarot of all people is about to be traded for a 1st round pick
Guhles gonna be fine lol

 

[MXD]

Yeah, so Vokoun was a much better goalie and should never have been exposed to the expansion draft, but he was because Theodore was chosen to be the successor of Roy.

Jose was thrust into the role because we had dreams of another Québécois rookie goalie coming up and winning the cup.

The advantage he got was he got at least one extra year burnt of his entry contract, and he was allowed to learn on the job.

Imagine if we had kept Vokun over Theodore in the expansion draft—exposing Theodore instead. First, what would the fans and the media say? What would the impact have been on our team?

Theodore had some success, but the year he won the Vezina there wasn’t much competition as a lot of good goalies had recently retired, were getting older, or were injured. He didn’t even have the most wins or goals against average, but basically won on save%. I remember that year he seemed to have a horse shoe up his a$$, but it was a good year for him. But overall, I never felt that Jose was as good as his reputation. He played just after Brodeur, Roy, and Hasek’s prime — but at a time that those goalies were still able to play well enough or get resigned on the hope of a resurgence.

Vokoun was in no way better than Theodore at that point and the idea that Vokoun was the better prospect is non-factual.

 

[themilosh]

Yeah, so Vokoun was a much better goalie and should never have been exposed to the expansion draft, but he was because Theodore was chosen to be the successor of Roy.

Jose was thrust into the role because we had dreams of another Québécois rookie goalie coming up and winning the cup.

The advantage he got was he got at least one extra year burnt of his entry contract, and he was allowed to learn on the job.

Imagine if we had kept Vokun over Theodore in the expansion draft—exposing Theodore instead. First, what would the fans and the media say? What would the impact have been on our team?

Theodore had some success, but the year he won the Vezina there wasn’t much competition as a lot of good goalies had recently retired, were getting older, or were injured. He didn’t even have the most wins or goals against average, but basically won on save%. I remember that year he seemed to have a horse shoe up his a$$, but it was a good year for him. But overall, I never felt that Jose was as good as his reputation. He played just after Brodeur, Roy, and Hasek’s prime — but at a time that those goalies were still able to play well enough or get resigned on the hope of a resurgence.

Year he won the Vezina?? He won the HART TROPHY.. idk, yeah he never lasted long, but he was clearly the better goalie at the time v Vokoun.

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

You seem very angry. Nothing to do with language. I'm talking about the expectations from a rabid fan base, media and constant scrutiny. Do you really think that a player in Montreal and a player in San Jose are on equal footing when it comes to coverage of every mistake they make on the ice? Has John Gibson been under the same level of pressure in Anaheim over the years as Carey Price has in Montreal?

Sure. Laval is in close proximity but they don't have millions watching their games and dozens of media members travelling with them. How much coverage do they get in the Gazette compared to the Habs? Francophone papers? National media? Even TSN 690?

Also just about any sports development model touches on how athletes develop better when they are not under constant pressure. It's actually a good thing for players to dominate before moving on to the next level. That's why most players don't go right to the NHL after being drafted.

I hope your axe to grind with the french language didn't upset your family's Christmas.

I'm not angry about hockey, I'm annoyed that folks bring up bs like "pressure". It's nonsense. Ya players might get stalked and shit, but that's nothing to do with pressure. That's just start power. They do that stuff in Hollywood as well, do you hear the actors complain about pressure???

At the end of the day, the media covers the team and shits on underperforming non french speakers. Meanwhile guys like Desharnais, Drouin etc get endless passes and chances. They get interviewed more because they are french. With that said, i still don't believe this is much of a reason why players don't sign here. Taxes is the primary reason.

 

[MXD]

I'm not angry about hockey, I'm annoyed that folks bring up bs like "pressure". It's nonsense. Ya players might get stalked and shit, but that's nothing to do with pressure. That's just start power. They do that stuff in Hollywood as well, do you hear the actors complain about pressure???

At the end of the day, the media covers the team and shits on underperforming non french speakers. Meanwhile guys like Desharnais, Drouin etc get endless passes and chances. They get interviewed more because they are french. With that said, i still don't believe this is much of a reason why players don't sign here. Taxes is the primary reason.

That's a lot of words you've written for something that you don't even believe is the reason why players don't sign here.

There's a word to describe this, and that word is anger. Denying won't help, and going about it in a totally unrelated thread is a symptom.

 

[GrandBison]

Guys, this is a Guhle thread. I'm not here to read about Theodore's hair follicles.

I liked Guhle's physicial and defensive game yesterday but it's pretty hard to judge the first game. Players don't have much chemistry right now and it will build slowly. Funny though that when it was 3-1 CZE, I said to my friends "no worries, the game will end up 6-3 for CAN" and look what happened. I don't have much merit though, nobody expected Canada to lose anyways!

You're right. Sorry guys, Im the one who took the bait.

Guhle was effective but invisible.

At first, I was wondering who's the big guy trying to find something to do in defensive zone... Power was in full Housley mode.

 

[dinodebino]

Guhle thread?

 

[MXD]

Guhle thread?

Anger makes people do many weird things.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I don't know what game people watched, but Guhle was great versus Czechia. Power was obviously better, but that's to be expected from a 1st overall pick.

 

[MXD]

I don't know what game people watched, but Guhle was great versus Czechia. Power was obviously better, but that's to be expected from a 1st overall pick.

... His breakout passing wasn't great. Rest was pretty good.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

... His breakout passing wasn't great. Rest was pretty good.

They were great though. I think he only had 1 missed pass.

 

[Scriptor]

They were great though. I think he only had 1 missed pass.

All game, Guhle only had one questionnable defensive read. For the rest, he was a rock.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I don't know what game people watched, but Guhle was great versus Czechia. Power was obviously better, but that's to be expected from a 1st overall pick.

Power demonstrated what a top pairing defenceman looks like: he controlled the play most of the time he was on the ice. As I have been saying since the start of the season, Guhle will be a strong 3 to 4 defenceman in the NHL. Nothing wrong with that. But to consider him a top pairing defenceman is an overestimation of his potential. He lacks the dynamism.

 

[Miller Time]

Power demonstrated what a top pairing defenceman looks like: he controlled the play most of the time he was on the ice. As I have been saying since the start of the season, Guhle will be a strong 3 to 4 defenceman in the NHL. Nothing wrong with that. But to consider him a top pairing defenceman is an overestimation of his potential. He lacks the dynamism.

I have a feeling many people had the same take on Phaneuf vs Weber back in 2005 WJC (where Weber had 0 points vs Phaneufs ppg 9n that stacked Canada team)...

That Power is ahead of Guhle today is clear (like Phaneuf over Weber back then)...

That both are all but locks to be NHLers is also clear imo...

What will each do (& how well each are supported in the process) over next 4-6yrs to maximize their potential will determine what they do at their peak more than who is more dynamic at 18.

 

[Scriptor]

Power demonstrated what a top pairing defenceman looks like: he controlled the play most of the time he was on the ice. As I have been saying since the start of the season, Guhle will be a strong 3 to 4 defenceman in the NHL. Nothing wrong with that. But to consider him a top pairing defenceman is an overestimation of his potential. He lacks the dynamism.

If Komisarek could be a top-pairing D with Markov, Guhle could be a top-pairing D with a Power type D.

Guhle is better than Komisarek.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Weber was 19 too at some point, i'd imagine.

Habs fans have PTSD that nothing good can happen with our prospects anymore

Who knows, he could be better than Weber.

Agreed. In my eyes, Guhle is the better skater and has tremendous defensive awareness already. He’s going to be really hard to play against for years. It’s his offence comparison I’m not sure about

 

[le_sean]

Guhle can become a #1D in the same vein that Jaccob Slavin is for the Canes. They won’t wow you offensively, though they contribute somewhat. But they will dominate defensively.

 

[HabsAddict]

Well not hard to be "Einstein" with Ribeiro and Dagenais, I truly wonder how that guy got in the NHL, I can barely understand what ge says in french. The way he articulates words sounds like un homme de cromagnon lmao.

But anyway, back to Guhl's

Dagenais? When I went to Hamilton for my "scouting reports" the best thing that described Dagenais was....ice grazer. Like those cows that chew along a random path...so was his play. Occasionally startled by the puck hitting his stick and him shooting....

 

[HabsAddict]

If Komisarek could be a top-pairing D with Markov, Guhle could be a top-pairing D with a Power type D.

Guhle is better than Komisarek.

The only reason Komisarek had an NHL career was Markov. Then he got a big fat contract and subsequently disappeared.

Total waste of hope...