Prospect Info: Kaiden Guhle Part III (Traded to Oil Kings)

[Big Empty]

Grab an extra 1st pick 10-20range and hope that Jiricek falls there because of his injury

I’m jealous of the Avs with Makar and Byram.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I’m jealous of the Avs with Makar and Byram.

We could have had Hughes.

 

[JC Superstar]

Not to be a contrarian, and someone who had the privilege of seeing the Big Three play dozens of times in person, I think even Savard would readily agree that Robinson was the best defenceman of the three if not in the whole league. Only Salming was close. What most people don't know is that Savard started as a forward, but suffered two broken legs that really derailed his career. When he first came up and played the rover position, Savard was a revelation, Montreal's answer to Orr. He was the fastest player on the ice. In my opinion he never fully recovered from those leg injuries. He lost his great straightforward speed. But Savard adapted his game. Still a strong skater, he learned to use his great size to protect the puck. He developed the Savardian spinnerama to gain separation from forecheckers. He used his skating judiciously and knew when to pinch and when to retreat. One of the smartest players I ever watched. A true Hall of Famer. But he was no Robinson. No one was.

Savard played defense for the Houston Apollos and for the Habs when he came in the big league. He only played forward on the PK: try to score against Lapointe, Robinson, Savard and Jarvis, good luck.

A dominant hard hitting rather defensive defenseman to play for the Habs would be Rod Langway. If Guhle is in his ballpark, I won't complain on his lack of offensive instinct.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Savard played defense for the Houston Apollos and for the Habs when he came in the big league. He only played forward on the PK: try to score against Lapointe, Robinson, Savard and Jarvis, good luck.

A dominant hard hitting rather defensive defenseman to play for the Habs would be Rod Langway. If Guhle is in his ballpark, I won't complain on his lack of offensive instinct.

When Savard first played for the Montreal Jr. Canadiens he was a center. He switched positions as he progressed to the pros. However when he won the Conn Smythe he was a bit of a rover and was a threat when killing penalties.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I hope you are right and I am wrong. But I think terms like fantastic, elite and dynamic are as often misused as is the use of generational talent. To my aging eyes, I don't see Guhle as a fantastic skater. A fantastic skater was Paul Coffey or Scott Niedermayer or Jay Bouwmeester. Are you saying that you see Guhle in their class? Or is it that Coffey, Niederayer and Bouwmeester were super duper fantastic skaters. I will point out again that Guhle wasn't even the best skating defenceman on Team Canada. So I guess Power and Zellweger must be in the super duper fantastic class of skaters. Then one can only wonder about the lofty description applicable to the U.S.' Jake Sanderson, who is even a better skater than all three.

Guhle may very well have been the best skating dman on Canada, I am not sure how you are arriving at these absolutes. What else is there to say if you don't find it readily evident that he is a fantastic skater. This is a consensus among scouts, I think you are making the common mistake that most fans make by equating skating ability with dmen who are more inclined to rush the puck. Guhle's skating is his top attribute and is one of the main reasons that he was highly regarded in his draft year.

It is a little strange to try and denigrate his ability based on subjective comparisons to the greatest skaters in the history of the game. Is Mitch Marner not a fantastic passer because he is not Gretzky, Oates or Lemieux....it is an oft used tactic to illegitimately attack a position when there are no legitimate alternatives.

If you don't think that Guhle is a fantastic skater than the only course of action is to improve your ability to judge a player's skating. I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it does but this is a long standing problem with fan evaluator's and I just want to be part of better discussions on these boards.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Not to be a contrarian, and someone who had the privilege of seeing the Big Three play dozens of times in person, I think even Savard would readily agree that Robinson was the best defenceman of the three if not in the whole league. Only Salming was close. What most people don't know is that Savard started as a forward, but suffered two broken legs that really derailed his career. When he first came up and played the rover position, Savard was a revelation, Montreal's answer to Orr. He was the fastest player on the ice. In my opinion he never fully recovered from those leg injuries. He lost his great straightforward speed. But Savard adapted his game. Still a strong skater, he learned to use his great size to protect the puck. He developed the Savardian spinnerama to gain separation from forecheckers. He used his skating judiciously and knew when to pinch and when to retreat. One of the smartest players I ever watched. A true Hall of Famer. But he was no Robinson. No one was.

Savard was the best of the three as Robinson was far more prone to making gaffes and turning the puck over. Savard was a great teammate and allowed Robinson and Lapointe to play on the PP, if he had played the same PP minutes then Savard would have been the consensus best of the three. The fact was that the team had 3 elite PP quarterbacks and only two spots available. Savard was asked to be the top penalty killer and shut down the opponents top line.

It was a great time to be a Hab fan and I loved Robinson as much as anyone but Savard was the best defender in the league when he was at the top of his game. He may be the best defender to have ever played if we are strictly talking about his ability to absolutely dominate players in his own end.

 

[dcyhabs]

Savard was the best of the three as Robinson was far more prone to making gaffes and turning the puck over. Savard was a great teammate and allowed Robinson and Lapointe to play on the PP, if he had played the same PP minutes then Savard would have been the consensus best of the three. The fact was that the team had 3 elite PP quarterbacks and only two spots available. Savard was asked to be the top penalty killer and shut down the opponents top line.

It was a great time to be a Hab fan and I loved Robinson as much as anyone but Savard was the best defender in the league when he was at the top of his game. He may be the best defender to have ever played if we are strictly talking about his ability to absolutely dominate players in his own end.

Savard's broken legs and subsequent problems slowed him down. Absolutely dominant before that and still good after.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Savard's broken legs and subsequent problems slowed him down. Absolutely dominant before that and still good after.

The injuries definitely hurt and limited his game but before that.......Maybe the greatest Hab dman.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Grab an extra 1st pick 10-20range and hope that Jiricek falls there because of his injury

He is not likely going to fall past 10, he played just 9 minutes and he was best player on ice along with Power. Whole Czech offense crumbled when he was out. I am very sceptical about products of Czech hockey system, but i am nearly 100 percent sure this guy is going to be top pair superstar D, i would not be suprised if he was taken in top 3.

 

[Tyson]

Savard's broken legs and subsequent problems slowed him down. Absolutely dominant before that and still good after.

Amazing with all of the leg injuries he was still one of the best skaters the game has ever seen.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Savard was the best of the three as Robinson was far more prone to making gaffes and turning the puck over. Savard was a great teammate and allowed Robinson and Lapointe to play on the PP, if he had played the same PP minutes then Savard would have been the consensus best of the three. The fact was that the team had 3 elite PP quarterbacks and only two spots available. Savard was asked to be the top penalty killer and shut down the opponents top line.

It was a great time to be a Hab fan and I loved Robinson as much as anyone but Savard was the best defender in the league when he was at the top of his game. He may be the best defender to have ever played if we are strictly talking about his ability to absolutely dominate players in his own end.

Near the top of my list. The best I've seen is Doug Harvey (on tape). No doubt about it, most mobile and intelligent General I've ever seen.

Harvey was WAY better than Bourque, Lidstrom and the rest of those modern guys. Counting Norris trophies doesn't do him justice.

 

[Tyson]

Near the top of my list. The best I've seen is Doug Harvey (on tape). No doubt about it, most mobile and intelligent General I've ever seen.

Harvey was WAY better than Bourque, Lidstrom and the rest of those modern guys. Counting Norris trophies doesn't do him justice.

My dad use to tell me stories about Doug Harvey. He was a great one.

 

[JC Superstar]

My dad use to tell me stories about Doug Harvey. He was a great one.

And the first player I ever saw do a spin-o-rama.

 

[McGees]

Sooo…Is this the Guhle thread?

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Near the top of my list. The best I've seen is Doug Harvey (on tape). No doubt about it, most mobile and intelligent General I've ever seen.

Harvey was WAY better than Bourque, Lidstrom and the rest of those modern guys. Counting Norris trophies doesn't do him justice.

Harvey was obviously good but he was playing in a league that had a ton of terrible players and the game was still very early in it's evolutionary process. I knew two scouts who are/were Hab fans and both agree that Harvey would have been the 3rd best dman on the 70's team behind Savard and Robinson. Harvey helped revolutionize the position and pave the road for Orr but I do strongly believe that he is overrated in these conversations and would easily have Lidstrom ahead of him and Bourque would be very close.

Harvey played in an era where hockey was almost entirely mindless and he was a smart, talented guy who's claim to fame is more that he was able to talk his coach into allowing him to try something different.

To be completely fair it is a bit of a fools errand to compare players from different eras as they are playing entirely different games with entirely different levels of competition. I will always appreciate Harvey for what he did and what he meant to the game but he played in a very weak league that was ripe for the picking by progressive thinkers.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

Harvey was obviously good but he was playing in a league that had a ton of terrible players and the game was still very early in it's evolutionary process. I knew two scouts who are/were Hab fans and both agree that Harvey would have been the 3rd best dman on the 70's team behind Savard and Robinson. Harvey helped revolutionize the position and pave the road for Orr but I do strongly believe that he is overrated in these conversations and would easily have Lidstrom ahead of him and Bourque would be very close.

Harvey played in an era where hockey was almost entirely mindless and he was a smart, talented guy who's claim to fame is more that he was able to talk his coach into allowing him to try something different.

To be completely fair it is a bit of a fools errand to compare players from different eras as they are playing entirely different games with entirely different levels of competition. I will always appreciate Harvey for what he did and what he meant to the game but he played in a very weak league that was ripe for the picking by progressive thinkers.

Guess Gordie Howe, Rocket Richard, Beliveau, etc are all overrated too then

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Guess Gordie Howe, Rocket Richard, Beliveau, etc are all overrated too then

I wouldn't say that as I believe all 3 would be stars in any era.....I just think that Harvey was more of a right place/right time to stand out the way that he did.

 

[Mandala]

Any news on Guhle? When does he start to play again after the premature ending of the World junior?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Harvey was obviously good but he was playing in a league that had a ton of terrible players and the game was still very early in it's evolutionary process. I knew two scouts who are/were Hab fans and both agree that Harvey would have been the 3rd best dman on the 70's team behind Savard and Robinson. Harvey helped revolutionize the position and pave the road for Orr but I do strongly believe that he is overrated in these conversations and would easily have Lidstrom ahead of him and Bourque would be very close.

Harvey played in an era where hockey was almost entirely mindless and he was a smart, talented guy who's claim to fame is more that he was able to talk his coach into allowing him to try something different.

To be completely fair it is a bit of a fools errand to compare players from different eras as they are playing entirely different games with entirely different levels of competition. I will always appreciate Harvey for what he did and what he meant to the game but he played in a very weak league that was ripe for the picking by progressive thinkers.

You have Lidstrom ahead of Harvey and maybe even Bourque. This made me chuckle.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Any news on Guhle? When does he start to play again after the premature ending of the World junior?

It is interesting. Because he hasn't returned to the Oil Kings yet. They've played twice and he wasn't in the line-up in either game.

The team tweeted the return of the players that were back from the WJC, but Guhle wasn't there. I thought that maybe the Habs would be calling him up on an emergency basis, which would explain not being back with the Oil Kings. However, that didn't happen.

Now I'm curious if maybe he got hurt at the WJC.

 

[Dough72]

Guhle may very well have been the best skating dman on Canada, I am not sure how you are arriving at these absolutes. What else is there to say if you don't find it readily evident that he is a fantastic skater. This is a consensus among scouts, I think you are making the common mistake that most fans make by equating skating ability with dmen who are more inclined to rush the puck. Guhle's skating is his top attribute and is one of the main reasons that he was highly regarded in his draft year.

It is a little strange to try and denigrate his ability based on subjective comparisons to the greatest skaters in the history of the game. Is Mitch Marner not a fantastic passer because he is not Gretzky, Oates or Lemieux....it is an oft used tactic to illegitimately attack a position when there are no legitimate alternatives.

If you don't think that Guhle is a fantastic skater than the only course of action is to improve your ability to judge a player's skating. I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it does but this is a long standing problem with fan evaluator's and I just want to be part of better discussions on these boards.

no the other poster's opinion was valid, if there are skaters like Guhle in every single draft it is completely fair to question whether they should be called "fantastic" and also fair to bring up skaters like coffee to point this out. And talk about lowering the bar for hockey discussions you just accused another poster of underhanded rhetorical tactics, then called him hockey-stupid, and then said he makes the entire forum worse, all because he disagreed with you over an adjective lol. An adjective! rofl

 

[SpezNc2]

It is interesting. Because he hasn't returned to the Oil Kings yet. They've played twice and he wasn't in the line-up in either game.

The team tweeted the return of the players that were back from the WJC, but Guhle wasn't there. I thought that maybe the Habs would be calling him up on an emergency basis, which would explain not being back with the Oil Kings. However, that didn't happen.

Now I'm curious if maybe he got hurt at the WJC.

Or Covid?

 

[GammaAway]

Sooo…Is this the Guhle thread?

You mean Rivet: 2.0?

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Near the top of my list. The best I've seen is Doug Harvey (on tape). No doubt about it, most mobile and intelligent General I've ever seen.

Harvey was WAY better than Bourque, Lidstrom and the rest of those modern guys. Counting Norris trophies doesn't do him justice.

Well, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but my assessment of Harvey is based on watching him play in person multiple times. While Harvey may have been a superstar in his era, I would say with some degree of certainty (and viewed blasphemously by many) that Harvey would have trouble making the NHL today. Harvey was hardly the most mobile defenceman in his era as he relied more on his vision, strength and hockey I. Q. to become the star he was.

The game of hockey in the 40s and 50s was much different than the current game. The players were much smaller, less fit, with most having to have part time jobs to get by financially. They may have been professional hockey players but they weren't professional players by today's standards. The 1972 Summit Series was a real eye opener to the NHL players and their smug fans when the supposedly invincible Team Canada was embarrassed in game one by a Soviet team that was comprised of players who trained all year long and cross trained as opposed to the NHLers whose idea of off season training was playing golf.

Whenever metrics are available to be used as a comparative guide, athletes of today are proven to be bigger and faster than their predecessors. That also applies to hockey players. Over the many years I have often posted on this board my view that there are very few players of the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s who could play and succeed in the NHL today. That fact doesn't make them any less heroic. Harvey, Kelly, Gatsby, Lach, Kennedy, Vasko, Mikita, Bathgate, Bower, St. Laurent, Bouchard, Tremblay, Worsley, etc. were great players of their respective eras. Let's leave it at that.