Kadri discussion thread after his 30th goal - now featuring 60 points!

[Bluelines]

Well we could compare 50pt Centers but we already have threads for those.

Apparently if your name is Bozak, a 50pt center has limited value.

Boz...? ...ak? Who? Never heard of him... sounds like a keep though? I wonder ..can he win faceoffs more often than he loses?

 

[Bluelines]

I would say Naz is not a 30 goal center. Thats not a expectation i will burden my enjoying watching him with. How ever many points he ends up with though this season likely won't be his career year for points. His shot is better slightly and he has been more north south this season. I'm not sure why he broke out with 30 and counting but its partially due to some extra jam at the net.

Its 100% due to the fact he finally has a coach that knows how to exploit Naz's strengths, what do you do with a guy with a weak and not terribly accurate shot but has amazing hands 10-15 ft away from the net? Stick him in the slot on the PP and let the hockey gods take care of the rest.

 

[Pookie]

I think Bozak has improved. Not just because of having Marner on the line. The beginning ofthe year i though that was the majority of the reason but his overall game is better away from the puck. I would have a difficult time finding a fair trade that would benefit both teams involving him. His value actually rests with not being moved at all. I could care less if we get a stinking mediocre draft pick for a solid vet actually.

Trade value for him is less than that of the other 50pt guy. Agreed.

Kadri fans will have to decide if they are Leaf fans first if a deal comes along.

He's our best market asset at this point.

 

[Pookie]

Boz...? ...ak? Who? Never heard of him... sounds like a keep though? I wonder ..can he win faceoffs more often than he loses?

In a world where leadership supposedly matters, he's the Assistant Captain.

You wouldn't know that though from reading the boards here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

that kadri was cancerous to the team, that he wasn't a core player, that he wouldn't be offered a long term deal, that he wasn't gonna ever hit 30 goals and 60 pts(that could still happen). Plus a bunch more. Now not every person who said that was a kadri hater or anything, but a few guys were. They wanted him gone and didn't think he could play a defensive role and impact the team the way he does. Everyone on this board has been wrong multiple times before, we've been wrong about our centers too. Bozak while not a number one center, has proven fit to be a 2nd line center on playoff team with 55 pt production, elite faceoff skills and above average defense when the effort is their. Kadri has proven to be a leader, who is physical and can go up against top line talent effectively coming out on top. He's a 30 goal scorer and hopefully soon to be 60 pts player. These two player the most have proven a lot of doubters wrong over the past two years.

Yeah definitely a bunch more. Now those same people act as Kadri has become a good player overnight when the fact is, he's been getting better every year but that improvement has been gradual. The team around him however has taken a dramatic leap forward this year which is the main reason for his point totals being up. But hey, people have to find some excuse to pretend they have never been wrong about anything, hence the narrative that he has always sucked and now, he's somehow magically morphed into a #1C.

Fair enough. There were definitely some outliers who felt he had no future here.

There are also many who were dead set that he was our future franchise 1c and would be a ppg and anyone who thought otherwise was insane.

There are also those that are dead set that we always this good, has not changed anything at all and that anyone who thinks otherwise is insane.

Many 'haters' thought he was a player who had the potential to be great but in a lesser role, who at the time was NOT a defensive player (Corsi me all you want but taking a million shots does not make you a defensive forward), was prone to circus act one man shows that often led to giveaways and occasionally got into trouble because of his (perceived ) entitlement.

Many of them (of which I count myself) firmly believe that he has not only shown that he can be trusted defensively in most roles but is also making less selfish giveaways and seems to have bought into his role on the team. These people are also apparently completely wrong, which I don't agree with.

And god forbid any of us actually give him credit for doing so.

Hyperbole much?

As far as people being "dead set that he was our future franchise 1c and would be a ppg" - maybe this was at the time he was drafted, certainly before I joined this board. I think you'd have to back a very long time to find even one person who was insisting that Kadri was a future "franchise center". Have you really seen anyone say this in the last few years?

The discussion from what I've seen for several years has been the haters saying he'd never be anything more than an easily replaceable 3rd line centre (the phrase 32 point centre was also tossed around a lot early last season). Then there were those of us who were saying forget the points, just watch him play! We were insistent that he was already an above average 2nd line centre, that his shooting percentage was un-sustainably low, that his point totals would go up and when there was a better team around his point totals would increase even more. We were right on all counts.

Congrats again on 30 goals Nazem. This season that is quite an accomplishment!

 

[Pookie]

Well there's what Gary says everyone knew all along and what Shanahan said when he suspended him for a partying problem... dismissed as inconsequential sleeping in by many here.

And what Babcock said just this offseason about learning to be a pro, having a hockey summer, getting a better shot and not diving.

Gary knows more though.

So Kadri, amazing season and I (and a few others) appreciate that you took Shanahan's and Babcock's words to heart and made an off ice commitment to improving your career and hopefully your life.

I didn't know it all along. I see improvement. But I guess I'm not in the "know it all gang" that Gary references.

 

[Jeypic]

Trade value for him is less than that of the other 50pt guy. Agreed.

Kadri fans will have to decide if they are Leaf fans first if a deal comes along.

He's our best market asset at this point.

No he's not. Matthews is. Doesn't mean we should trade either when they're on sweetheart contracts and we have other valuable market assets without guaranteed contracts that fit our cap situation in the future. (Jvr, bozack)

Our team doesn't need to make drastic changes to improve. We just went from zero to hero in one season. Kadri was a big part of that. We're overflowing with assets right now. We can improve this team by letting them grow up and making small upgrades using chips no bigger then jvr.

 

[stickty111]

Good on you for admitting
I would say 6mil+
Duchene bracket

If only a couple others would admit they were wrong and stop running a false agenda. Maybe they have too much pride?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well there's what Gary says everyone knew all along and what Shanahan said when he suspended him for a partying problem... dismissed as inconsequential sleeping in by many here.

And what Babcock said just this offseason about learning to be a pro, having a hockey summer, getting a better shot and not diving.

Gary knows more though.

So Kadri, amazing season and I (and a few others) appreciate that you took Shanahan's and Babcock's words to heart and made an off ice commitment to improving your career and hopefully your life.

I didn't know it all along. I see improvement. But I guess I'm not in the "know it all gang" that Gary references.

I never said "inconsequential sleeping in", what I said was that since we don't know what the issues are it's impossible to know how serious they are (or aren't). Shanahan was also suspended when he was a young player, he turned out pretty good so there was certainly reason to hope it wasn't the end of the world.

I also said Kadri has improved every year, if you are going to address me, please pay attention.

 

[Pookie]

No he's not. Matthews is. Doesn't mean we should trade either when they're on sweetheart contracts and we have other valuable market assets without guaranteed contracts that fit our cap situation in the future. (Jvr, bozack)

Our team doesn't need to make drastic changes to improve. We just went from zero to hero in one season. Kadri was a big part of that. We're overflowing with assets right now. We can improve this team by letting them grow up and making small upgrades using chips no bigger then jvr.

Matthews won't be traded.

 

[Jeypic]

Matthews won't be traded.

Neither will kadri

 

[Pookie]

We know what the issues are Gary or at least what was reported by James Mirtle.

I think it's a fantastic turnaround based on that info.

 

[Pookie]

Neither will kadri

So he retires a Leaf?

 

[stickty111]

Seeing Gary's posts. In my short time here. I can already tell he is one of the better ones. Gives his opinion without using exaggerating caps lock just to make them sound smarter. Doesnt run a narrative just because they cant admit they were wrong about a player. Its clear he doesnt worry about pride like some do which is a great thing. He wont use comparisons to mediocre players(but i am sure those people actually like this player) and wont call out the fans of this player for no apparent reason. An issue society has today is people being sensitive to being wrong so they will pretend that they werent so they can save face. Or dont like the player at all but wont admit it for some reason.
Keep up the great work Gary!

Anyways thought I would give credit to the good poster! Kadri has been excellent. He was always good but has taken a step forward. 60 point 2 way centres arent easy to find. Good thing we have one.

 

[Jeypic]

So he retires a Leaf?

He definately doesn't get traded a year after we sign him to a great deal that he just outperformed.

im curious if you were on the trade nylander on an elc bandwagon a couple weeks ago?

What sense does it make to trade kadri? Seriously? Our defense doesn't even suck that bad... and kadri is one of the reasons for that.

What improvement to the team are you trying to make? We need cost controlled players like kadri for when we get hit with nylander, Matthews, and mariners next contract.

What are you improving?

 

[PromisedLand]

I still say theirs a case to be made that Kadri gets the captaincy

Yup. Would prefer Naz or Mo for the captain. Let the big 3 play with each other and develop no need to put one of the big three on a pedestal yet.

I don't know but I would try and avoid any situation with the big 3 that may lead to jealousy etc......

 

[stickty111]

I never said "inconsequential sleeping in", what I said was that since we don't know what the issues are it's impossible to know how serious they are (or aren't). Shanahan was also suspended when he was a young player, he turned out pretty good so there was certainly reason to hope it wasn't the end of the world.

I also said Kadri has improved every year, if you are going to address me, please pay attention.

The fact that he thinks Kadri fans would rather the team fail than he be traded tells me his opinion shouldnt even be talked about

Kadri doubters need to decide if they want him to be traded so the team can fail or he needs to be kept!

 

[Bluelines]

We know what the issues are Gary or at least what was reported by James Mirtle.

I think it's a fantastic turnaround based on that info.

Why do you keep quoting legitimate sources? Its like you base your opinions on substantiated facts ... who does that?

 

[Xscout*]

I'll answer your question with a question, what sense did it make to trade Clark?

Second question what metric would you use define wither a teams has bad team defence?

Apples and oranges.

Clark was dealt near the end of a contract for a franchise player to take over for Gilmour.
Widely believed he wanted to re sign after his deal with the buds too. And he did

So if Kadri is dealt for a franchise defenseman in like 3 years. .. then maybe compare it.

And seriously these trade Kadri / Nylander threads need to stop. Getting ridiculous

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Kadri isn't getting traded
First people said he is a bust and then when he moved on from that he became perpetual trade bait. Sad that people could live in this "trade Kadri" fantasy year after year after year. Not going to happen. Too bad the mod here doesn't like Kadri and can't thread ban this trade garbage in an 30G appreciation thread.

 

[dimi78]

So he retires a Leaf?

Would that be a bad thing with how he's developed both as a player and a person?

Reason's to trade Kadri at this point are so small and delusional in way.
(1) A team offers the Leafs something they can't refuse
(2) The Leafs team falls off the rails like Colorado and Edmonton did that warrants movement of good players to move forward.

Those are the only scenarios he gets moved ATM so Kadri is just as much core player as the big 3, retiring a Leaf might just be what happens.

 

[Diatomic]

So he retires a Leaf?

I don't think Kadri gets traded the whole length of his contract. It's too much of a steal and cap friendly to even consider trading him because there's no way you will get the best bang for your buck.

 

[Bluelines]

We didnt have a sundin or a Matthews. Our team was on the decline.

Second question.. usually just my eyes. I guess I look at goals against?

So you're saying our team can't benefit from a trade? Does every trade have to be fora Sundin type?

We are 21st for goals against, that is probably bad eh?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Seeing Gary's posts. In my short time here. I can already tell he is one of the better ones. Gives his opinion without using exaggerating caps lock just to make them sound smarter. Doesnt run a narrative just because they cant admit they were wrong about a player. Its clear he doesnt worry about pride like some do which is a great thing. He wont use comparisons to mediocre players(but i am sure those people actually like this player) and wont call out the fans of this player for no apparent reason. An issue society has today is people being sensitive to being wrong so they will pretend that they werent so they can save face. Or dont like the player at all but wont admit it for some reason.
Keep up the great work Gary!

Anyways thought I would give credit to the good poster! Kadri has been excellent. He was always good but has taken a step forward. 60 point 2 way centres arent easy to find. Good thing we have one.

You're too kind, but thanks. I wan't on these boards when Naz was drafted to I don't know what went on then but ever since I've been here, I've seen Kadri take way too much abuse. If you were to look in the archives at any thread about Kadri (since I've been here anyway) you'd see the same couple of posters desperately looking for reasons to put him down. Even now, there's another thread dedicated to Kadri, this one is specifically to congratulate him and they don't even have the good grace to take the trade talk elsewhere. No, they absolutely must pollute every Kadri thread with this nonsense.

Yup. Would prefer Naz or Mo for the captain. Let the big 3 play with each other and develop no need to put one of the big three on a pedestal yet.

I don't know but I would try and avoid any situation with the big 3 that may lead to jealousy etc......

It's funny, I never thought Kadri would be a good choice for captain - seems that even I haven't been giving him enough credit because as of today, I think he would be a fine choice. Naz and Mo, yup I think those would be my first two choices at this point, letting the big three do their thing without the added pressure that comes with the captaincy seems prudent. Kadri has been through so much in his time here and survived it all, who better to take the heat?

I don't think Kadri gets traded the whole length of his contract. It's too much of a steal and cap friendly to even consider trading him because there's no way you will get the best bang for your buck.

You're probably right. Especially at this point, the chances of him being traded are near zero. This is partly because of his sweetheart deal. What would Kadri be worth on the open market? Someone threw out 6.5m, let's say that that's accurate, what's a 6.5m player on a 4.5m contract worth in a trade? Certainly substantially more than a 6.5m player on a 6.5 contract so what then? An 8m player on a 7.5m contract? Pondering that for a minute it's really hard to envision a trade involving Kadri that makes sense for all parties involved.

Anyhow, enough of this pointless trade talk. Kadri's going nowhere and I hope he stays a Leaf until he retires, at this point I'm not sure anyone better embodies what I would like to see from players wearing a Maple Leaf uniform. He's battled through much adversity and has come out of it looking better than ever. Some people were ridiculing the idea of Kadri being a good role model for our young players but today, that's exactly what he looks like to me.

Nazem Kadri = beauty.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Trade value for him is less than that of the other 50pt guy. Agreed.

Kadri fans will have to decide if they are Leaf fans first if a deal comes along.

He's our best market asset at this point.

I think there is enough free agent d-men available that can help without trading. Forward depth we are building just fiine. Just adding Alzner mitigates the need to rush Dermott or Nielsen. Thats assuming Zaitsev is signed. So i figure Zaitsev will be signed and Lou goes after some or possibly just Alzner.

There is also the short term fix in Bieksa and Engelland in the 5,6 or 7 slots. We have enough cap space to sign all three with each paired with the offensive trio of Rielly,Zaitsev and Gardiner. Carrick gets in the mix as our four defenseman and Engelland is the 7th on a two year max. Bieksa on a 2 year if possible but max 2 years.

That buys development time nicely just for money in the short term. We still need asset management and development along with cap flexability going into the years our main three become Rfa's. I'm not on trade mode thonking much right now. The deadline moves were enough and fit the plan management seems to have. I would just keep things rolling until next years trade deadline before trading anyone.

Jvr is pne i wanted moved earlier and still only if its a fair value deal. Fair value on him is high or we keep him until the deadline next year also. There is no players developed enough that they are pushing hard right now. Kappy is the closest and fits with moving Jvr. Other than that match, nothing is neccessary.