Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[Hockeyville USA]

Kakko for Kaliyev 1 for 1?

 

[markymarc1215]

Defended and sympathized with him for 5 years. It's become apparent that it's time to move on. He has regressed this year. There hasn't been any growth in his game that you'd expect for a 2nd overall pick. At this point I'd rather see Berard or Othmann busting their ass in that 3RW spot next year.

Kakko needs to cook on a crappy team with minimal fanfare or pressure. Maybe he becomes a decent player in that environment. It's just apparent it won't be here.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I still don’t necessarily see the rush in running Kakko out of town unless he wants out.

He’s very clearly not a guy that can create offense on his own but that’s the position he’s been put in basically all year. First with Kreider and Zib who might as well have not existed this season, then with some combinations of Cuylle/Bonino/Brodzinski/Wennberg/Roslovic.

Like, I don’t think he deserves better usage, but why the f*** am I watching Alex Wennberg on the powerplay for any amount of time?

The only rush is a high draft pick has a declining trade value if they are not producing as expected.

 

[Peltz]

Defended and sympathized with him for 5 years. It's become apparent that it's time to move on. He has regressed this year. There hasn't been any growth in his game that you'd expect for a 2nd overall pick. At this point I'd rather see Berard or Othmann busting their ass in that 3RW spot next year.

Kakko needs to cook on a crappy team with minimal fanfare or pressure. Maybe he becomes a decent player in that environment. It's just apparent it won't be here.

I'm his biggest supporter, but even I have to admit that I was expecting a better postseason from him than this.

I really thought his ability to steal the puck in the neutral/defensive zones and possess the puck along the boards in the offensive zone would be a style of game that would stand out in the playoffs.

But in the offensive zone, he does not have the vision or elusiveness to turn his possession along the boards into a chance in front of the net. Every team has been successful at keeping him to the outside for entire games at a time.

Then when his linemates have the puck, Kakko continues to hang on the outside to get a pass and continue the cycle on the outside. He's never open in the slot or blue paint.

I don't know if it's a mental issue or what. The speed obviously needs work. But there's an offensive hockey sense that's failing to materialize too.

He needs to find a way to the net. Maybe he's just in the same headspace Laf was last spring and is due to finally "make it." But his game isn't what we hoped it would be as of today. And the lack of a true #1 RW is a big hole in this roster that holds it back.

 

[Roo Returns]

I'm his biggest supporter, but even I have to admit that I was expecting a better postseason from him than this.

I really thought his ability to steal the puck in the neutral/defensive zones and possess the puck along the boards in the offensive zone would be a style of game that would stand out in the playoffs.

But in the offensive zone, he does not have the vision or elusiveness to turn his possession along the boards into a chance in front of the net. Every team has been successful at keeping him to the outside for entire games at a time.

Then when his linemates have the puck, Kakko continues to hang on the outside to get a pass and continue the cycle on the outside. He's never open in the slot or blue paint.

I don't know if it's a mental issue or what. The speed obviously needs work. But there's an offensive hockey sense that's failing to materialize too.

He needs to find a way to the net. Maybe he's just in the same headspace Laf was last spring and is due to finally "make it." But his game isn't what we hoped it would be as of today. And the lack of a true #1 RW is a big hole in this roster that holds it back.

Drury likes buzzsaws and water bugs. Kakko isn't that. He's not Jagr and he's not the good Hossa. He may become a dependable 20-20 guy who wins a Cup in a support role but it's not going to be here.

 

[chris kontos]

Kakko for Kaliyev 1 for 1?

Blake's a sap. He'll throw in spence

 

[Whoot Whoot]

This guy had like 5 opportunities to go for a Michigan - he's just a coward

 

[ArPanet]

That video on yt of his WC hattrick shows a skinnier good skating kid with strength and focus. It was easy to believe he would keep trending in the right direction. Somewhere in his life away from the Rangers the problems developed.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Defended and sympathized with him for 5 years. It's become apparent that it's time to move on. He has regressed this year. There hasn't been any growth in his game that you'd expect for a 2nd overall pick. At this point I'd rather see Berard or Othmann busting their ass in that 3RW spot next year.

Kakko needs to cook on a crappy team with minimal fanfare or pressure. Maybe he becomes a decent player in that environment. It's just apparent it won't be here.

I'm his biggest supporter, but even I have to admit that I was expecting a better postseason from him than this.

I really thought his ability to steal the puck in the neutral/defensive zones and possess the puck along the boards in the offensive zone would be a style of game that would stand out in the playoffs.

But in the offensive zone, he does not have the vision or elusiveness to turn his possession along the boards into a chance in front of the net. Every team has been successful at keeping him to the outside for entire games at a time.

Then when his linemates have the puck, Kakko continues to hang on the outside to get a pass and continue the cycle on the outside. He's never open in the slot or blue paint.

I don't know if it's a mental issue or what. The speed obviously needs work. But there's an offensive hockey sense that's failing to materialize too.

He needs to find a way to the net. Maybe he's just in the same headspace Laf was last spring and is due to finally "make it." But his game isn't what we hoped it would be as of today. And the lack of a true #1 RW is a big hole in this roster that holds it back.

So Ive defended him after really disliking his play his rookie year, I've been more than a little optimistic on his role and value.
I'm going to say something thats likely going to be considered a hot take especially as the board starts firing up the pitchforks for him specifically.

Kakko was not the problem last night. In fact he actually played very well last night.
He is a more offensive version of jesper fast. He's very strong on the boards, great defensive player, is gonna sit in that 40-60 pt range (depending on pp time and usage), so long as he plays with players who can really take advantage of that skill set.
He does need to work on his distributions. Kakko has a skillset that almost no one on the rangers really has. He works the boards, and works them very very well. Rarely is a puck on the boards with kakko and its a change in possession, and that works in both zones.
Is Kakko still a 2nd overall pick in terms of value? No.
Is he an NHL player that should be on our team becaues he has value? depends on the contract.
We keep him under 3m for a short term deal or 5m for a long term deal, ABSOLUTELY.

The rangers shouldn't move him "because". The rangers should move him because his ask is too high, or another team is offering major value for him (unlikely as we'd want an NHL level wing (whos got comparable or more value).

And Lavi has clearly noticed that Kakko has played well.
Lavi pumped him up the past 2 games, to play with CK and Mika at the end of the game.
Lavi called him out in the press conference before the game last night, and said "he played physical, he was aggressive, he did a great job"

You want to lay blame, lets blame the 40m of cap space who aren't producing.

Our entire production this series has been Laf + Trocheck +, 3 goodrow goals+ 1 wennberg goal+ 1 CK goal.

Theres alot more blame to go around and kakko should be one of the last ones getting it.

 

[bobbop]

Kakko for Kaliyev 1 for 1?

Interesting thought

 

[NYR Viper]

How about Kakko for Middleton. Middleton has 1 year to UFA. Begin talks on an extension ASAP and you have yourself a long term, tough LD.

Throw Kakko on a line with Foligno and I think he grows and does well there. They have a couple of smaller skilled forwards in MZA and Kaprizov who he may gel with over time too. I think it would be a fresh start for him

 

[Peltz]

So Ive defended him after really disliking his play his rookie year, I've been more than a little optimistic on his role and value.
I'm going to say something thats likely going to be considered a hot take especially as the board starts firing up the pitchforks for him specifically.

Kakko was not the problem last night. In fact he actually played very well last night.
He is a more offensive version of jesper fast. He's very strong on the boards, great defensive player, is gonna sit in that 40-60 pt range (depending on pp time and usage), so long as he plays with players who can really take advantage of that skill set.
He does need to work on his distributions. Kakko has a skillset that almost no one on the rangers really has. He works the boards, and works them very very well. Rarely is a puck on the boards with kakko and its a change in possession, and that works in both zones.
Is Kakko still a 2nd overall pick in terms of value? No.
Is he an NHL player that should be on our team becaues he has value? depends on the contract.
We keep him under 3m for a short term deal or 5m for a long term deal, ABSOLUTELY.

The rangers shouldn't move him "because". The rangers should move him because his ask is too high, or another team is offering major value for him (unlikely as we'd want an NHL level wing (whos got comparable or more value).

And Lavi has clearly noticed that Kakko has played well.
Lavi pumped him up the past 2 games, to play with CK and Mika at the end of the game.
Lavi called him out in the press conference before the game last night, and said "he played physical, he was aggressive, he did a great job"

You want to lay blame, lets blame the 40m of cap space who aren't producing.

Our entire production this series has been Laf + Trocheck +, 3 goodrow goals+ 1 wennberg goal+ 1 CK goal.

Theres alot more blame to go around and kakko should be one of the last ones getting it.

All fair points. But both can be true. He can be a non-problematic, defensively responsible member of the team while still not living up to his pedigree of being an offensive weapon.

I'm not saying trade the kid.

 

[bhamill]

And those suspects were morons for making an analysis off of 3 pre-season games. Laffy's confidence was immensely influenced by the improvement in his physical skill set. He was making plays from game 1 of the season. Dude his confidence continue to grow after staying on that line? Yes, but the base was set because of the physical development.

Really? Because then he should have been that way in pre season too. It wasn’t about his stats, it’s that he didn’t show the improvement people wanted. He trained with the same guy for years in the off season. That trainer said Laf worked hard EVERY off season. It wasn’t that he just decided to work hard last off season. He physically matured, and the coaches acted in a way to boost his CONFIDENCE. Unlike previous coaches.
The bottom line is that it doesn’t matter what physical tools you have if you don’t have the confidence to use them. This is so basic I can’t believe I have to keep saying it.

 

[bhamill]

Sometimes it’s just time to move on from a player and I think that is the case with Kakko. Whether or not it makes sense to hold onto him from a value standpoint is not the same as whether both parties need a change of scenery. Kakko has been an utter failure as a Ranger, and it’s not getting any better for him. Use him in a package or to move up at the draft.

It all depends n the return. Moving on from him just for the sake of moving on from him is just dumb. The kid scored 40 points 5v5 at 22, while being excellent on defense and possession. That’s not nothing. That’s why I’m confident we won’t trade him unless it’s a reasonable return.

Kakko for Kaliyev 1 for 1?

Nope.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Kakko is better suited for Euro leagues. He needs space to make things happen. He will be out of the NHL in the next few years. Maybe things would be different if he stayed in Europe for another year or 2, after his draft year. Marcel Hossa 2.0 but with less talent

 

[Talisman_52]

Kakko has basically been doing the same summer training since we drafted him. How about the Rangers just have an honest conversation with him and give him new direction.

Maybe instead of going back to Finland, maybe he needs to train with a different group this summer.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

feel bad for him. His skating is sub-NHL level and is the sole reason he can't hack it.

How did no scouts realize this?

His complete lack of hockey IQ especially offensively is not one reason?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That 2019 draft was very hit or miss. It could be argued nobody in it was worthy of a #2 oa pick.

Forget about the rumors of him going first overall but he was a pretty consensus #2 pick, #3 is where it got interesting.

 

[IDvsEGO]

All fair points. But both can be true. He can be a non-problematic, defensively responsible member of the team while still not living up to his pedigree of being an offensive weapon.

I'm not saying trade the kid.

You might not be , but half the board seems to be screaming it.

Kakko has basically been doing the same summer training since we drafted him. How about the Rangers just have an honest conversation with him and give him new direction.

Maybe instead of going back to Finland, maybe he needs to train with a different group this summer.

Wasnt that one of our arguments about laf this summer?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I understand why Bread's stats drop in the playoffs. I'm surprised KK's drop in the playoffs. Career wise he has 9 points in 45 playoff games. I wish the coaches could figure out what is going on in his game besides his skating. It is not about linemates nor PP time in my opinion. Maybe he needs to become stronger? Maybe his stick length is incorrect? Something just is not clicking.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I understand why Bread's stats drop in the playoffs. I'm surprised KK's drop in the playoffs. Career wise he has 9 points in 45 playoff games. I wish the coaches could figure out what is going on in his game besides his skating. It is not about linemates nor PP time in my opinion. Maybe he needs to become stronger? Maybe his stick length is incorrect? Something just is not clicking.

Maybe he just sucks?

 

[Roo Returns]

Really? Because then he should have been that way in pre season too. It wasn’t about his stats, it’s that he didn’t show the improvement people wanted. He trained with the same guy for years in the off season. That trainer said Laf worked hard EVERY off season. It wasn’t that he just decided to work hard last off season. He physically matured, and the coaches acted in a way to boost his CONFIDENCE. Unlike previous coaches.
The bottom line is that it doesn’t matter what physical tools you have if you don’t have the confidence to use them. This is so basic I can’t believe I have to keep saying it.

He's had three different coaches all of whom have quite different personalities more extreme than a Doctor Who transformation. A lot of this is on him.

Kakko has basically been doing the same summer training since we drafted him. How about the Rangers just have an honest conversation with him and give him new direction.

Maybe instead of going back to Finland, maybe he needs to train with a different group this summer.

That's a huge issue and part of the infrastructure/sports psychology aspect that should be addressed.

He needs something similar to a Barbara Underhill meets Gary Roberts. Skating should be his number one priority and shooting his number two.

If it happens it will be for a different organization though.

 

[3rd Guy High]

I think he’s a guy that figures it out eventually but it’s going to take a jolt (such as a trade, or multiple..) a la JT Miller.

Two problems I see with him.

One is he isn’t great at using his linemates. Some of this is not on him but there are times where there are guys clearly open and he has tunnel vision. Some guys develop this later in their careers, but it’s never going to be a strength of his.

The second is that he needs to attack and use his body to go straight to the net. He’s so hard to knock off the puck, he’s a possession darling for this reason. Take it off the boards and into the middle of the ice and front of the net. He should be taking 4-5 goalie interference penalties a year from playing right on the edge and driving the net hard. He takes the easy way out and curls off way too much.

I think part of the reason the kid line worked so well when it was clicking is because this is in Chytil and Lafrenieres DNA and Kakko fed off of that.

Either he’s not being told this or he’s just not listening and doing it. The more time passes, the more likely it’s the latter.

big rangy power forwards like him tend to develop later - in their mid to late twenties. I don’t know if the rangers have the patience to wait that long, but if he sits in the range of 3 million per, it might be worth waiting it out depending on who his replacement would be.

 

[bhamill]

He's had three different coaches all of whom have quite different personalities more extreme than a Doctor Who transformation. A lot of this is on him.

The third coach is the one that truly put him in a position to succeed. Sure, ultimately the way a player plays is on the player. But if a coach destroys a player’s confidence or misuses him, there’s only so much a player can do. For instance Laf would have probably been close to PPG on the year if he got PP1 time. Laf has been better than Mika at 5v5 all year and it’s not close. But the coach liked his powerplay so Laf did not see PP1 time. And there’s nothing he can do about it. Look at the playoff he’s having, but even with the PP1 struggling and Laf exploding, he’s not getting that usage. I’m thinking next year he does though.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Maybe he just sucks?

I wont say that but sometimes guys that are not huge scorers in a lower level are drafted with hope they will become huge scorers at this level. I think people see #2 overall draft pick and think he must be a big scorer. My fear is that he really was not really a huge scorer before he was drafted so maybe that was more hope than reality. We also have to be honest that draft year was not great. The media played it up like Hughes and KK were almost equal but their ceilings were quite different imo. Lastly while I understand people's frustrations its not that he is not trying. He just may not have it.