Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[LionsHeart]

The same Messier who praised him more than anyone else on the team early in the series? Good and bad. Like we have said throughout the thread. Some players were only bad. They got 20 minutes on ice.

Yeah, Messier said that Kakko’s style is made for playoff hockey, but he still had to develop, which is something I completely agree with.

The more we get away from the scratching the more we can contextualize what Gallant was thinking. I think he does like Kakko, but he wasn’t playing physical enough and in a do or die game he doesn’t have the luxury of letting him “figure it out.” Hunt isn’t very good, but it was fresh legs and he does play hard. The problem is just that, Strome was clearly hurt and Hunt isn’t very good. It’s was a decision I think was wrong and shortsighted, but there’s a habit of falling back on the vets, sometimes to the coaches own detriment.

You see other young, talented player getting scratched in these situations because the coaches are going to go back to relying on vets. Gallant never seemed to really buy into the long term success of a line. He broke up Panarin-Strome-Kakko for reasons we still don’t understand, he broke up the kids line, but he never touched a struggling 2nd line. This is a dumb league with dumb habits and I think he fell into one of those dumb habits.

 

[Larrybiv]

Yeah. The answer to the two top lines getting shut down and refusing to play physical was absolutely to blame Kakko and bring in Hunt. Gimme a break. I'm not saying that you are wrong in what you say above. I'm saying it's ridiculous by Gallant to kick a kid when he can't come up with a better solution. No wonder that big coward refused to talk about it.

Yes, it is ridiculous to a point. IF indeed he was told of his "non aggressive play" numerous times then of course, sit him.
BUT there were a few others (Panarin, I am looking at you, and you had better have been injured) and if GG didn't have the balls to sit a useless Panarin, then I suppose the easiest choice is to sit KK.
Panarin would have thrown a hissy fit, and probably would have requested a trade for being "shamed". Who knows?
In a positive way, sitting KK probably was better than sitting Panarin or whomever else.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

My point was to the point made that Kakko was dropped due to lack of physical play. The problem is a little bit bigger than one kid on the third line when the top line vets get shut down and can't compete physically. People are saying Kakko not laying hits was the problem. If so, Gallant's pandering to the stars on the top lines was the bigger problem. Did they crash the net or lay huge hits? Hardly. Gallants inability to come up with a solution outside his standard set of tools was the problem. His inability to sort out the 5v5 issues was the problem. But he didn't talk about that, he kicked an easy target and ran off.

GG had a great year, but a bad series. When a reporter blamed fatigue and GG got giddy about it in the post game presser, that was off-putting.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Uhh, yes. The world doesn't stay stagnant. The way my father was treated at his job, was significantly different than my grandfather. The way I'm treated at my job is significantly different than how my father was treated. With your theory, people should be treated forever the same across the entirety of history.

If being treated differently means some guys born after 2000 need to be coddled that is fine. Just give me the ones that do not need to be coddled like Laf and the guys on TB.

 

[jonlin]

Well if Im building a team Id look for guys that don't need to be coddled. I don't know if Kakko does or not. Im just commenting on this supposed "new school" notion. Laf is younger than Kakko. He took his benching in exactly the manner a coach wants to see.

You have a hard time getting the point I see. Have to use capitals then: THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG IN BENCHING KAKKO IF THE COACH BELIEVE ITS BEST FOR THE TEAM. However: BENCHING A PLAYER WITHOUT TELLING UPFRONT AND PROVIDING NO REASON FOR BENCHING IS STUPIDITY. If you want a player to learn something from benching him TELL HIM WHY HE IS BENCHED AND WHAT TO IMPROVE. Capish?

 

[egelband]

I fear an offer sheet may be inevitable. Would cost a team only a 2nd round pick for a 4 million cap hit. That is overpayment based on his production, but they would be betting on his future development and potential since he is only 21 yo. Would the Rangers match 4 million? They have several players to re-sign including a 2C spot which will cost between 5-6 million. Seems will be very tight the cap.

I think other GMs are gonna see his lack of ice time and less opportunity here, and think they will take a risk on a larger cap hit and losing a 2nd round pick. There is still so much potential for Kakko who is still young.

Offer sheet only happens if the player wants out. And if that’s the case, a trade is probably more likely. It’s all possible, of course, but I’m not convinced just yet. But indeed, anything can happen. No idea what KK has in mind.

 

[CLW]

As has been mentioned, Kakko had injured himself giving a hit. Speculation, but he may be hesitant to throw hits out of fear of injury at the moment. He definitely needs to be more physical and should talk to Reaves about the best way to throw the body in the NHL to avoid injury. Let's see if this continues or it changes next season. I have no argument for or against his scratch. It was obvious he passed up hits and was overly reliant on stick checking. He does need some nasty added to his game. I said the same about Miller at the end of last season and he found some this season. I hope he is mad at Gallant and just takes it out on the other team during games. Use it constructively, kid. He just needs more tenacity and fight when going for pucks, and needs to throw a hit when he can't get a puck. Just finish a check. I am curious to know what the exact previous injury was and how much pain he dealt with. That could cause any of us to shy away from contact until confidence in health was established.

I agree with this. He definitely is puck focused and goes in to win the puck with his stick. But so do most of the top six stars on this team so he really is taking after his role models on the team. He can absolutely improve, but maybe it's a bit much to ask him to shift his focus and habits deep in a playoff run?

When he got injured he went out of his way to hit Romanov, and that screwed up his season. It was a solid hit too from both of them.

 

[will1066]

Yes, it is ridiculous to a point. IF indeed he was told of his "non aggressive play" numerous times then of course, sit him.
BUT there were a few others (Panarin, I am looking at you, and you had better have been injured) and if GG didn't have the balls to sit a useless Panarin, then I suppose the easiest choice is to sit KK.
Panarin would have thrown a hissy fit, and probably would have requested a trade for being "shamed". Who knows?
In a positive way, sitting KK probably was better than sitting Panarin or whomever else.

Neither the team nor Panarin revealed/reported any injuries. Not that I saw anyway.

Well if Im building a team Id look for guys that don't need to be coddled. I don't know if Kakko does or not. Im just commenting on this supposed "new school" notion. Laf is younger than Kakko. He took his benching in exactly the manner a coach wants to see.

And if I recall correctly, Laf said that he "got the message" with the healthy scratch, despite Gallant's public cover that he felt that Laf just "needed a game off."

 

[NickyFotiu]

You have a hard time getting the point I see. Have to use capitals then: THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG IN BENCHING KAKKO IF THE COACH BELIEVE ITS BEST FOR THE TEAM. However: BENCHING A PLAYER WITHOUT TELLING UPFRONT AND PROVIDING NO REASON FOR BENCHING IS STUPIDITY. If you want a player to learn something from benching him TELL HIM WHY HE IS BENCHED AND WHAT TO IMPROVE. Capish?

LOL if you are going to try to insult someone at least learn how to spell the actual word. Now I hope I didn't hurt your feelings by pointing that out. I don't want you to feel like you were not coddled enough.

 

[will1066]

You have a hard time getting the point I see. Have to use capitals then: THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG IN BENCHING KAKKO IF THE COACH BELIEVE ITS BEST FOR THE TEAM. However: BENCHING A PLAYER WITHOUT TELLING UPFRONT AND PROVIDING NO REASON FOR BENCHING IS STUPIDITY. If you want a player to learn something from benching him TELL HIM WHY HE IS BENCHED AND WHAT TO IMPROVE. Capish?

People are also missing the point that perhaps the scratch-and-sniff wasn't done in a vacuum and that Gallant had talked to Kakko prior times about what was needed from him.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

If being treated differently means some guys born after 2000 need to be coddled that is fine. Just give me the ones that do not need to be coddled like Laf and the guys on TB.

You keep comparing Laf to Kakko. They are different personalities and come from different upbringings and cultures. It’s not really a fair comparison. Laf has an old school mentality, for sure, because he grew up in that Canadian mindset with those coaches and family values.

Regardless, Kakko appears also to be one that “doesn’t need to be coddled” judging by his response to the benching in the presser. You’ve yet to acknowledge that point.

Your response to “the world is changing” appears to be “well give me the kids aren’t changing.” That’s not really how it works, it’s changing anyway.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

People are also missing the point that perhaps the scratch-and-sniff wasn't done in a vacuum and that Gallant had talked to Kakko prior times about what was needed from him.

Depends on which GG you believe exists. The one in pressers who admits he doesn't talk much to the players about strategy, doesn't give speeches that are longer than 10 seconds, has assistants realize when to use time outs etc., or the mastermind that some on this site believe exists who pretends to be the dumb guy because behind closed doors he's a stronger, smarter Jon Cooper.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

You have a hard time getting the point I see. Have to use capitals then: THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG IN BENCHING KAKKO IF THE COACH BELIEVE ITS BEST FOR THE TEAM. However: BENCHING A PLAYER WITHOUT TELLING UPFRONT AND PROVIDING NO REASON FOR BENCHING IS STUPIDITY. If you want a player to learn something from benching him TELL HIM WHY HE IS BENCHED AND WHAT TO IMPROVE. Capish?

While the all caps is over the top, this is essentially my point. I see a lot of people responding to it with “well Kaapo deserved to be benched because…” but that’s not the debate or point I at least have been trying to make. Should have told him he was scratched before he sees the lineup card.

People are also missing the point that perhaps the scratch-and-sniff wasn't done in a vacuum and that Gallant had talked to Kakko prior times about what was needed from him.

This is a fair point but still doesn’t explain why he wasn’t told he was scratched for Game 6.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You keep comparing Laf to Kakko. They are different personalities and come from different upbringings and cultures. It’s not really a fair comparison. Laf has an old school mentality, for sure, because he grew up in that Canadian mindset with those coaches and family values.

Regardless, Kakko appears also to be one that “doesn’t need to be coddled” judging by his response to the benching in the presser. You’ve yet to acknowledge that point.

Your response to “the world is changing” appears to be “well give me the kids aren’t changing.” That’s not really how it works, it’s changing anyway.

I don't know how Kakko will handle things so I can't really make a comparison. I will say that I felt all along that benching Laf was the right move and I really respected how Laf handled it. Go back and look at the threads. When some others were saying Laf should be coddled and it wasn't fair I said this could be the best thing for him. Its okay to get a kick in the butt even in 2022 if you need to wake up as a player. The world may be changing but not all change is positive. I do not think a team of guys that need to be coddled will win. I didn't see a soft coddled team in Tampa Bay.

Depends on which GG you believe exists. The one in pressers who admits he doesn't talk much to the players about strategy, doesn't give speeches that are longer than 10 seconds, has assistants realize when to use time outs etc., or the mastermind that some on this site believe exists who pretends to be the dumb guy because behind closed doors he's a stronger, smarter Jon Cooper.

Jon Cooper would be the first guy to stand up and stand with Gallant.

 

[will1066]

Depends on which GG you believe exists. The one in pressers who admits he doesn't talk much to the players about strategy, doesn't give speeches that are longer than 10 seconds, has assistants realize when to use time outs etc., or the mastermind that some on this site believe exists who pretends to be the dumb guy because behind closed doors he's a stronger, smarter Jon Cooper.

I believe that the reality is probably somewhere in between. He likes to keep things close hold with the outside public and media.

 

[CLW]

People are also missing the point that perhaps the scratch-and-sniff wasn't done in a vacuum and that Gallant had talked to Kakko prior times about what was needed from him.

I'm sure he does. Shoot more, hit more. Kakko passes and poke checks and ignores inviting hits I've seen that too. But to get hung up on one guy who overall was solid enough at that stage in the playoffs is just weird. He didn't stink the games up with outright bad plays like several other (star) players did.

Absolutely it was a huge message that GG demands all kids to play on brand physical, and in this case him specifically. I don't have a problem with that message in general, but with the tIme and place.

 

[LokiDog]

My point was to the point made that Kakko was dropped due to lack of physical play. The problem is a little bit bigger than one kid on the third line when the top line vets get shut down and can't compete physically. People are saying Kakko not laying hits was the problem. If so, Gallant's pandering to the stars on the top lines was the bigger problem. Did they crash the net or lay huge hits? Hardly. Gallants inability to come up with a solution outside his standard set of tools was the problem. His inability to sort out the 5v5 issues was the problem. But he didn't talk about that, he kicked an easy target and ran off.

No one is saying KK not being physical was THE problem. He was among the least physical on a team that wasn’t physical overall. You think the coach is sitting a 29 year old, 12M winger who - while I HATED Panarin’s playoffs and advocated trading him - still had 16 points in 20 games in an elimination game in the conference finals? Panarin can suck for 59 minutes, the Rangers get a PP and he sets up the Mika one timer that wins the game. That’s the difference (and also the problem with Panarin - he’s untouchable because he can suck for 59:50 out of a game but you need to leave him in because in 10 seconds he still may make a play that changes the game). Kakko is 21, hasn’t earned any benefit of the doubt that Panarin has, and had 5 points in 19 games.

I think it was obvious the coach thought (it didn’t work, but hindsight is a gift you only get after the fact - let’s be real, if he had made zero changes people would have criticized that as well) that the best way to effect a change was to get more physical against Tampa’s trap. Mika, Panarin and Kreider weren’t getting scratched. Copp, Goodrow, Motte, Vatrano, Laf had all been physical. Between KK and Chytil, Chytil had been a little better and plays center. Rooney and Hunt were going to play to try to inject the physicality, fresh legs, crash and bang style the coach wanted. It came down to KK vs Strome for the final spot - veteran Strome (who sucked in the playoffs, but I guess earned the trust of the organization over the past couple years) said he was good to go. He wasn’t.

Again, hindsight is something you only have after the fact. I disagreed with the scratching, I just don’t think it’s nearly as egregious or calamitous as people are making it out to be. It won’t “ruin” Kakko, it won’t ruin his relationship with the team and it ultimately wouldn’t have been the difference between us advancing or not. It’s a whole bunch of angrily shaking our fists at the air. Nobody ever said KK or his lack of physicality was THE problem though… it’s been suggested that the coach wanted fresh legs and more physicality from a gassed team that couldn’t break the trap. Someone was gonna sit. It wasn’t going to be any of the vets or deadline acquisitions - it wasn’t going to be Rooney/Hunt because those were the fresh legs and physicality coming into the lineup. Once the coach trusts that Strome said he was good to go, it’s gonna be one of the kids. Laf’s phsyical play and Chytil’s speed/position we’re always going to make it shake out this way. KK needs to get faster and learn to play physical and he won’t find himself in this situation again.

 

[will1066]

While the all caps is over the top, this is essentially my point. I see a lot of people responding to it with “well Kaapo deserved to be benched because…” but that’s not the debate or point I at least have been trying to make. Should have told him he was scratched before he sees the lineup card.


This is a fair point but still doesn’t explain why he wasn’t told he was scratched for Game 6.

Continuing the logic of my theory, maybe Gallant felt he was past the point of words with Kakko. Again, my theory is that Gallant had spoken with Kakko previously and maybe more than once about the delta between Kakko's play and what he wanted.

I'm sure he does. Shoot more, hit more. Kakko passes and poke checks and ignores inviting hits I've seen that too. But to get hung up on one guy who overall was solid enough at that stage in the playoffs is just weird. He didn't stink the games up with outright bad plays like several other (star) players did.

Absolutely it was a huge message that GG demands all kids to play on brand physical, and in this case him specifically. I don't have a problem with that message in general, but with the tIme and place.

No, I agree. I think Kakko should have played and had played well enough on the Kid Line. Some goals can directly be attributed to his ability in keeping the puck in the offensive zone and the play alive -- even as he was going in the opposite direction and out of the o-zone.

Still, at the end of the day, Gallant is the head coach, and we're just sitting in front of our computers and with our phones trying to prognosticate. It's what matters to him with his lineup decisions and not us the fans.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Did Kakko and Laferiene get interviewed? Anyone know where I can find them

 

[RagFinMet]

Im sorry but u dont break up a line that has dominated defensively the last 2 PO series just because one guy wasnt finishing his checks.
Whatever Kk was doing along with laf and chy it was working
They were our best line
No one scored 5v5
And if they got as much ice time as the pan line i believe they would have scored a few more goals

 

[jonlin]

LOL if you are going to try to insult someone at least learn how to spell the actual word. Now I hope I didn't hurt your feelings by pointing that out. I don't want you to feel like you were not coddled enough.

Not trying to insult - that is what your spelling comment is going for. If you dont understand why benching without telling in advance and giving the player the reasoning behind it is somewhat stupid, I dont know what to say. And on top of it, Kakko hadnt gotten any explanation why even 2 days after. If thats not stupid, what is? Usually you bench someone for bad decisions on ice etc. and tell them what to improve to get ice-time. Benching without giving a reason for it, is just bad management.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

I don't know how Kakko will handle things so I can't really make a comparison. I will say that I felt all along that benching Laf was the right move and I really respected how Laf handled it. Go back and look at the threads. When some others were saying Laf should be coddled and it wasn't fair I said this could be the best thing for him. Its okay to get a kick in the butt even in 2022 if you need to wake up as a player. The world may be changing but not all change is positive. I do not think a team of guys that need to be coddled will win. I didn't see a soft coddled team in Tampa Bay.


Jon Cooper would be the first guy to stand up and stand with Gallant.

Jon Cooper would stand with him? Wow. His friend would do that? That proves.....nothing. Haha. What a weird thing to say and think you are proving a point.

 

[NickyFotiu]

All the Kakko must be coddled stuff because he was born after 2000 is hopefully just fan messageboard speculation. Kakko said it gives him motivation and that he wants to be here. That is what I want to believe.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Jon Cooper would stand with him? Wow. His friend would do that? That proves.....nothing. Haha. What a weird thing to say and think you are proving a point.

Ask Jon Cooper who he said was his first choice as assistant. Their friendship came after coaching together not before. If they didn't see eye to eye on coaching it is doubtful they would have become so close and doubtful Gallant would be his first choice for his staff.

 

[McRanger92]

Yes, but it would be disappointing if he was only Van Riemsdyk, Reinhart, Niederreiter, Ladd, Vanek or Jordan Staal.

If he becomes a Sedin or Hubderdeau I'm still thrilled.

You should be thrilled if he has an effective 10-15 year NHL career like the first group. Talk about unrealistic expectations. Hoping for him to become a borderline Hall of Famer at this stage of his development is wishful thinking and really not fair to the player.