Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[will1066]

Has his sisu weakened?

 

[NickyFotiu]

This is exactly the type of old school corporate attitude that alienates people and fails to address the point - he was scratched, and no one even told him. He seems to be taking it well. But assuredly, that’s an unnecessary risk and a bad way to manage your employees. Particularly ones born after the year 2000.

Kakko aside do you think people born after year 2000 have to be treated in a different manner than the rest of the world?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Kakko will be fine as the NHL and ice hockey in general will become less and less about body contact.

Can't tell if this is a joke or serious. Well played. Also says something about this era

 

[LokiDog]

Based on Messier calling out Kakko’s forechecking after game 5 for not taking the body twice on Hedman behind Tampa’s net, I will assume this could have been an ongoing issue with Kaapo’s game throughout the playoffs.
If the coaching staff is telling him to “take the body” and he refuses then I don’t believe Gallant or any of his staff need to explain to the player why he is not in the lineup.
Message sent; was message received?

I said this several times.

I said that I don’t think it was about thinking Rooney or Hunt were better players. It was that Kakko hadn’t looked effective since game 1 or game 2 and we had dropped 3 in a row. He was looking for a shakeup. Kakko, I speculated (so don’t jump on me) was consistently the one to get demoted and eventually scratched because the coaching staff had been asking him to make an adjustment that he simply wasn’t making.

Of all the kids, Kakko plays the softest, most passive, least playoff style of game and when the other kids upped their physicality and urgency, Kakko continued to pass on every single opportunity to lay a hit, or even just put his big body in the way. I think he was asked/told to do so on numerous occasions, probably shown the tape of specific opportunities to do so that he passed on and eventually when desperation time came and the coach was looking to shake things up, he decided to take the guy who wasn’t getting the message out in favor of a guy who, while definitely not as good a player, was 100% going to get in hard on the forecheck and bang bodies when the opportunity arose.

Maybe Gallant thought our best chance to extend the series was by getting in hard on the forecheck to break the trap and wanted as many guys who could just get in and be hard on the puck to hope to pressure Tampa into a mistake or a penalty since literally everything else we’d done for the past 3 games wasn’t working. It isn’t EA hockey. The coach doesn’t have each player rated with an overall and a potential and say “no, Kakko is an 81 with B+ potential, Hunt is only a 76 with C- potential”. He wanted to effect a certain change in the play style because we were getting completely shutdown doing what we had been doing. We still got shutdown, but it seems pretty obvious that was going to be the outcome anyway. Tampa beat us 4 in a row. It was a last stitch effort to simply get a different look. It didn’t work, but the amount of bitching we’re doing about it is disproportionate to how egregious a decision it was or wasn’t.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Since Gerard Gallant has been Head Coach of the New York Rangers he has protected his individual players in press conference’s.
In this year’s playoffs he once said he felt his team looked tired and once said that his team played soft.
During the regular season he had called out the team for playing soft and also had said the “NHL is a Man’s game” and “They need to play like Men because this is a Man’s game”
Kaapo Kakko is a young developing player who doesn’t shoot enough, who over-passes and doesn’t take the body on any consistent basis. Kaapo Kakko does hold on to the puck well and when defending is good at stick-checking an opponent who has possession of the puck.
At this early point in his career, Kakko is playing soft. He is not playing like a Man in a Man’s Game.
If you are unable to connect the dots with all this information along with Kaapo being called out on ESPN. Then we will disagree on the term “pure speculation” which to me equates to making up something out of thin air. My speculation is based on the factual information I’ve provided in this and my previous posts.
Edit:
Multi Quote didn’t work; I did try to respond to both of you.

Again I didn’t mean it in an insulting way, but what ESPN calls out on their broadcast has nothing to do with what Gallant is saying to the player nor does your observations of his play; that’s why it’s speculation. My observation show a kid who is contributing to what has been our most effective forechecking line all playoffs, going to the front of the net (leading to an important goal) and overall improving. He looked a bit overmatched versus Tampa after Game 2, and I’m not debating the decision to scratch him (which I also disagree with) but just TELLING HIM he’s scratched and why. It’s not debatable that he wasn’t told anything; he flat out said it

 

[RangerBoy]

There is too much drama surrounding Kakko. He had the wrist injury during the season. Some people were speculating Kakko had a bad reaction to the Covid booster shot because he has diabetes and that was the reason for the Rangers being so cryptic about his status.

Kakko is scratched for a playoff game. His Rangers future is in doubt. Florida made Lundell a healthy scratch for game 3 against TB. Brunette played Maxim Mamin in place of Lundell. Did anyone saying about Florida moving Lundell?

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Kakko aside do you think people born after year 2000 have to be treated in a different manner than the rest of the world?

It’s not about whether they “have” to be treated differently. That’s not what I’m saying. I understand the urge to make them earn their time in the old school way, although they’ve likely never experienced that before reaching the NHL. It’s about whether you want to get the most out of these kids. In 20 years, the kids will be different again and how you manage the 2020 birth years will be different as well. Coaches will adjust or they won’t.

Managing people requires you to analyze personalities and the goal, as always, is to get the most out of them and instill confidence. Does that mean you give them things for free? No. But you should talk to them and explain your decision. It’s poor managing skills, period end of story.

Kakko is scratched for a playoff game. His Rangers future is in doubt. Florida made Lundell a healthy scratch for game 3 against TB. Brunette played Maxim Mamin in place of Lundell. Did anyone saying about Florida moving Lundell?

This is a fair point. But I wonder if Florida told Lundell he was scratched

 

[duhmetreE]

I said this several times.

I said that I don’t think it was about thinking Rooney or Hunt were better players. It was that Kakko hadn’t looked effective since game 1 or game 2 and we had dropped 3 in a row. He was looking for a shakeup. Kakko, I speculated (so don’t jump on me) was consistently the one to get demoted and eventually scratched because the coaching staff had been asking him to make an adjustment that he simply wasn’t making.

Of all the kids, Kakko plays the softest, most passive, least playoff style of game and when the other kids upped their physicality and urgency, Kakko continued to pass on every single opportunity to lay a hit, or even just put his big body in the way. I think he was asked/told to do so on numerous occasions, probably shown the tape of specific opportunities to do so that he passed on and eventually when desperation time came and the coach was looking to shake things up, he decided to take the guy who wasn’t getting the message out in favor of a guy who, while definitely not as good a player, was 100% going to get in hard on the forecheck and bang bodies when the opportunity arose.

Maybe Gallant thought our best chance to extend the series was by getting in hard on the forecheck to break the trap and wanted as many guys who could just get in and be hard on the puck to hope to pressure Tampa into a mistake or a penalty since literally everything else we’d done for the past 3 games wasn’t working. It isn’t EA hockey. The coach doesn’t have each player rated with an overall and a potential and say “no, Kakko is an 81 with B+ potential, Hunt is only a 76 with C- potential”. He wanted to effect a certain change in the play style because we were getting completely shutdown doing what we had been doing. We still got shutdown, but it seems pretty obvious that was going to be the outcome anyway. Tampa beat us 4 in a row. It was a last stitch effort to simply get a different look. It didn’t work, but the amount of bitching we’re doing about it is disproportionate to how egregious a decision it was or wasn’t.

That's the biggest problem with a lot of our kids.... Laffy is the exception.

We are too soft. Even Chytil.... I don't even know why I limited to the kids, our leading vets are just as soft.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It’s not about whether they “have” to be treated differently. That’s not what I’m saying. I understand the urge to make them earn their time in the old school way, although they’ve likely never experienced that before reaching the NHL. It’s about whether you want to get the most out of these kids. In 20 years, the kids will be different again and how you manage the 2020 birth years will be different as well. Coaches will adjust or they won’t.

Managing people requires you to analyze personalities and the goal, as always, is to get the most out of them and instill confidence. Does that mean you give them things for free? No. But you should talk to them and explain your decision. It’s poor managing skills, period end of story.


This is a fair point. But I wonder if Florida told Lundell he was scratched

I honestly don't know if players that have to be coddled are going to win. Laf took his benching as a professional adult and came right back from it in exactly the right way. I don't care if a scratched player throws stuff in a lockerroom or runs in to the coaches room demanding an explanation. Id be totally okay with that fire and wanting to play but this "new school" manner sounds so soft. If you want to call that thinking old school that is fine. TB came out and played in a hard hitting no crap taken old school manner imo and they won.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I honestly don't know if players that have to be coddled are going to win. Laf took his benching as a professional adult and came right back from it in exactly the right way. I don't care if a scratched player throws stuff in a lockerroom or runs in to the coaches room demanding an explanation. Id be totally okay with that fire and wanting to play but this "new school" manner sounds so soft. If you want to call that thinking old school that is fine. TB came out and played in a hard hitting no crap taken old school manner imo and they won.

Kakko didn’t complain about it, he in fact said he was going to use it for motivation next year. So I wouldn’t say he didn’t take it as a professional. My point is that if you’re investing in people you need to understand them better. The goal is to get the most out of Kakko, not to bully Kakko to see if he’s tough enough in 1992 to make it.

And regardless, benching a guy who has been a regular the entire season with no explanation to the player is poor management.

 

[mas0764]

Andrew Ladd, Henrik and Daniel Sedin didn't hit 50 points until they were 25.

Van Riemsdyk was 24. Reinhart and J. Staal 23. Niederreiter was 25.

Huberdeau was 22. So were Horton and Vanek. All were top-5 draft picks.

Yes, but it would be disappointing if he was only Van Riemsdyk, Reinhart, Niederreiter, Ladd, Vanek or Jordan Staal.

If he becomes a Sedin or Hubderdeau I'm still thrilled.

 

[CLW]

I said this several times.

I said that I don’t think it was about thinking Rooney or Hunt were better players. It was that Kakko hadn’t looked effective since game 1 or game 2 and we had dropped 3 in a row. He was looking for a shakeup. Kakko, I speculated (so don’t jump on me) was consistently the one to get demoted and eventually scratched because the coaching staff had been asking him to make an adjustment that he simply wasn’t making.

Of all the kids, Kakko plays the softest, most passive, least playoff style of game and when the other kids upped their physicality and urgency, Kakko continued to pass on every single opportunity to lay a hit, or even just put his big body in the way. I think he was asked/told to do so on numerous occasions, probably shown the tape of specific opportunities to do so that he passed on and eventually when desperation time came and the coach was looking to shake things up, he decided to take the guy who wasn’t getting the message out in favor of a guy who, while definitely not as good a player, was 100% going to get in hard on the forecheck and bang bodies when the opportunity arose.

Maybe Gallant thought our best chance to extend the series was by getting in hard on the forecheck to break the trap and wanted as many guys who could just get in and be hard on the puck to hope to pressure Tampa into a mistake or a penalty since literally everything else we’d done for the past 3 games wasn’t working. It isn’t EA hockey. The coach doesn’t have each player rated with an overall and a potential and say “no, Kakko is an 81 with B+ potential, Hunt is only a 76 with C- potential”. He wanted to effect a certain change in the play style because we were getting completely shutdown doing what we had been doing. We still got shutdown, but it seems pretty obvious that was going to be the outcome anyway. Tampa beat us 4 in a row. It was a last stitch effort to simply get a different look. It didn’t work, but the amount of bitching we’re doing about it is disproportionate to how egregious a decision it was or wasn’t.

Yeah. The answer to the two top lines getting shut down and refusing to play physical was absolutely to blame Kakko and bring in Hunt. Gimme a break. I'm not saying that you are wrong in what you say above. I'm saying it's ridiculous by Gallant to kick a kid when he can't come up with a better solution. No wonder that big coward refused to talk about it.

 

[mas0764]

Kakko aside do you think people born after year 2000 have to be treated in a different manner than the rest of the world?

The world is changing whether we like it or not.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Kakko didn’t complain about it, he in fact said he was going to use it for motivation next year. So I wouldn’t say he didn’t take it as a professional. My point is that if you’re investing in people you need to understand them better. The goal is to get the most out of Kakko, not to bully Kakko to see if he’s tough enough in 1992 to make it.

And regardless, benching a guy who has been a regular the entire season with no explanation to the player is poor management.

If I didn't make it clear my comment was not about Kakko. Just the notion that guys born after 2000 have to be treated differently. Reminds me of a guy we called pillow when I coached. Great nice young kid. Would be happy to have him as a family member but not going to win cups against guys that dont need a pillow.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The world is changing whether we like it or not.

Well if Im building a team Id look for guys that don't need to be coddled. I don't know if Kakko does or not. Im just commenting on this supposed "new school" notion. Laf is younger than Kakko. He took his benching in exactly the manner a coach wants to see.

 

[LokiDog]

Yeah. The answer to the two top lines getting shut down and refusing to play physical was absolutely to blame Kakko and bring in Hunt. Gimme a break. I'm not saying that you are wrong in what you say above. I'm saying it's ridiculous by Gallant to kick a kid when he can't come up with a better solution. No wonder that big coward refused to talk about it.

See, this is the type of response to a rational post that devolves this thread into haters vs fanboys time and time again. I didn’t say anything about blame and I didn’t hear anyone blame KK. He’s a kid, he was a likely asked to be more physically engaged, likely multiple times. The coach wanted a heavier, harder forechecking lineup after losing 3 straight. He made a change. Coaches do things to try and shakeup their teams all the time. When a goalie gets shelled for 3-4 goals in the first and it’s literally all on the defense and the team being flat and horrible, doesn’t the goalie get pulled to try and change the pulse and effect some kind of change? Even if the backup goalie is objectively worse and you can’t blame any of the goals on the starter? It’s one thing to disagree with the decision, but the tantrums being thrown - along with the theorizing that the kid won’t want to play for us anymore and is “as good as gone” and that this is a fireable offense from GG - are just getting silly. As far as you’re concerned, you’re right, GG is wrong, anyone who agrees with GG or takes the middle ground is wrong and anyone who discusses any other take on it is going to be told they’re wrong. That’s fine. Kind of eliminates the point of discussing it though.

 

[mas0764]

Well if Im building a team Id look for guys that don't need to be coddled. I don't know if Kakko does or not. Im just commenting on this supposed "new school" notion. Laf is younger than Kakko. He took his benching in exactly the manner a coach wants to see.

Well obviously I'm not actively seeking out guys who need to be coddled but if a guy presents those characteristics, especially after I've already invested heavily in him, I will realize I need to be flexible enough to accomodate him. Talent and skill are more important because maturity and teaching and HELPING a player grow are far easier things to learn than natural ability. You don't want an outright bad egg, but I've heard a lot of people label Kravtsov and Kakko with things on here that are probably no more than immaturity from young adults who quite frankly are not mentally mature yet and that is to be expected. Helping them get there is the answer rather than just blanket assertions of "Well if they aren't professionals on their own, I don't want them."

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

Not pure speculation based on game clips that were shown on ESPN by analyst Mark Messier, one of the greatest hockey player ever to lace up skates.
Don’t respond. It’s not mandatory.

The same Messier who praised him more than anyone else on the team early in the series? Good and bad. Like we have said throughout the thread. Some players were only bad. They got 20 minutes on ice.

 

[mas0764]

We can be honest, Kakko did not have a great series as it went on.

He still deserved to play that last game. And he still did positive things.

The guy is as snakebitten as can be.

 

[dshea19]

As has been mentioned, Kakko had injured himself giving a hit. Speculation, but he may be hesitant to throw hits out of fear of injury at the moment. He definitely needs to be more physical and should talk to Reaves about the best way to throw the body in the NHL to avoid injury. Let's see if this continues or it changes next season. I have no argument for or against his scratch. It was obvious he passed up hits and was overly reliant on stick checking. He does need some nasty added to his game. I said the same about Miller at the end of last season and he found some this season. I hope he is mad at Gallant and just takes it out on the other team during games. Use it constructively, kid. He just needs more tenacity and fight when going for pucks, and needs to throw a hit when he can't get a puck. Just finish a check. I am curious to know what the exact previous injury was and how much pain he dealt with. That could cause any of us to shy away from contact until confidence in health was established.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Kakko aside do you think people born after year 2000 have to be treated in a different manner than the rest of the world?

Uhh, yes. The world doesn't stay stagnant. The way my father was treated at his job, was significantly different than my grandfather. The way I'm treated at my job is significantly different than how my father was treated. With your theory, people should be treated forever the same across the entirety of history.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

If Gallant thought the way to shake things up was physicality, than he had to make a change. I think most would have preferred he got rid of Strome in that scenario so we could keep our line that got some scoring chances. But no point in continuing the same arguments. This thread will become even more of a cesspool throughout the off season.

Kakko needs to get faster and more physical. If he does, we will be very happy he is here. Lets hope.

 

[mas0764]

Kakko had 5 points in 19 games, but he had at least 2-3 assists taken away, including the game winner against Pittsburgh in Game 1, another assist taken off the board at one point for sure, I think another as well.

If he had 8 points in 19 games that is basically right on par with the rest of the kids.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Well obviously I'm not actively seeking out guys who need to be coddled but if a guy presents those characteristics, especially after I've already invested heavily in him, I will realize I need to be flexible enough to accomodate him. Talent and skill are more important because maturity and teaching and HELPING a player grow are far easier things to learn than natural ability. You don't want an outright bad egg, but I've heard a lot of people label Kravtsov and Kakko with things on here that are probably no more than immaturity from young adults who quite frankly are not mentally mature yet and that is to be expected. Helping them get there is the answer rather than just blanket assertions of "Well if they aren't professionals on their own, I don't want them."

I understand your view. I just don't really like the idea that we should coddle young guys. I feel young guys should be the hungriest on the team. Thats what I really respect about Crosby. Its not his talent. Its his work ethic. Crosby already has the fame, the money, etc but he will still go out and outwork young guys and 4th liners. He does this despite many miles on his body and many injuries. If anyone deserves to be coddled it would be the guy carrying the team on his back not guys that score 5 goals just because they are born after 2000. Now that is not about Kakko. I don't know who he is as a competitor. I just disagree with this guys born after 2000 need to be treated differently notion. Sadly it may exist in the real world or even on some teams. I just don't think it exists on teams like Tampa.

 

[CLW]

See, this is the type of response to a rational post that devolves this thread into haters vs fanboys time and time again. I didn’t say anything about blame and I didn’t hear anyone blame KK. He’s a kid, he was a likely asked to be more physically engaged, likely multiple times. Coaches do things to try and shakeup their teams all the time. When a goalie gets shelled for 3-4 goals in the first and it’s literally all on the defense and the team being flat and horrible, doesn’t the goalie get pulled to try and change the pulse and effect some kind of change? Even if the backup goalie is objectively worse and you can’t blame any of the goals on the starter? It’s one thing to disagree with the decision, but the tantrums being thrown - along with the theorizing that the kid won’t want to play for us anymore and is “as good as gone” and that this is a fireable offense from
GG - are just getting silly. As far as you’re concerned, you’re right, GG is wrong, anyone who agrees with GG or takes the middle ground is wrong and anyone who discusses any other take on it is going to be told they’re wrong. That’s fine. Kind of eliminates the point of discussing it though.

My point was to the point made that Kakko was dropped due to lack of physical play. The problem is a little bit bigger than one kid on the third line when the top line vets get shut down and can't compete physically. People are saying Kakko not laying hits was the problem. If so, Gallant's pandering to the stars on the top lines was the bigger problem. Did they crash the net or lay huge hits? Hardly. Gallants inability to come up with a solution outside his standard set of tools was the problem. His inability to sort out the 5v5 issues was the problem. But he didn't talk about that, he kicked an easy target and ran off.