Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[EdJovanovski]

"Well behind". 4 points from Chytil and Laf, people need to stop acting like Laf and Chytil was some how impressing in these playoffs.

Disgusting to read this thread, 21 years old player with almost a season ending injury, but go ahead.

That is well behind when the guy only got 4 or 5 points though, that’s nearly double lmao

 

[QJL]

That is well behind when the guy only got 4 or 5 points though, that’s nearly double lmao

No PP time for Kakko. No occasional elevation up the lineup either.

Even strength:

Kakko - 2 goals, 3 assists, 5 primary points, 11:44 EV TOI
Laf - 2 goals, 5 assists, 5 primary points, 13:05 EV TOI

Laf was better but Kakko had similar output.

We didn’t play the kids. They produced decently when we played them.

Players Kakko outproduced at ES points/60: Artemi Panarin, Ryan Strome

 

[dshea19]

Well, I tend to think that this team is not constructed to Kakko's strengths. This team is so rush oriented. If this was a more cycle oriented team, I think he would stand out so much more. So, the question now needs to be: can he adjust his training and game to flourish, or are the Rangers going to put him in a better situation to succeed. If they can resign Copp, I think he is a much better fit for Kakko than Strome will ever be. If Kakko can work on his acceleration, because I think his top speed is fine, it will greatly help adapting to what the Rangers do. However, his cycle work is so desperately needed by this team. When the rush goals are not happening, you have to wear the other team down with extended zone time and cycling. If the PP and rush don't work in generating goals, this team has no options.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I firmly believe that the “Gallant just ruined the relationship” posters are the same people who believe a comet is due to collide with the earth and end civilization, according to an ancient Mayan calendar which may be anywhere from 1-1000 years off.

Kakko isn’t going to demand a trade. The drama is 100% fan made conjecture. He’ll sign a reasonable bridge deal very, very likely within the next 4 weeks and hopefully show up having had a very productive off season. I’d rather he stay here and work with teammates than return to Finland for the full time.

He's been a healthy scratch for 1 game. I don't really agree with the decision but it seems more a desperate attempt to force something by Gallant in an elimination game against a superior team.

 

[mas0764]

Habs fan here. Also a yanks fan so hopefully we can all watch the pinstripes try to win in spite of Boone this year but I don't watch many rangers games. I'm not surprised with how far they got. I picked them to make the ECF and lose to Tampa actually. But what is going on with Kakko. Not that I want the Habs to trade for him but I'm actually curious why he's sucking so much. What about his game is limiting him, because he is obviously talented. If you were to give an objective take, do you think he'll be a great player in the future or do you think he's closer to being an eventual bust?

Depends on your definition. His offense has been way slower to develop which I blame primarily on NYR mismanagement.

I still think there is a potential 60 point Selke caliber forward in there. It may be that he only is a 50 point-ish middle 6 player though. While I don’t think you can rule it out, it doesn’t appear he has the high end offensive upside to be an 80+ point player consistently like originally expected.

Keep in mind that with only 10 minutes a game and no ST time he averaged 0.4 ppg at age 21, that’s like a 33 point season if he had stayed healthy. He is definitely going to be a 40 point player very soon.

It’s a question of how much more he will develop. There is some valid thinking that Finns/euro players are not as NHL ready as others these days and it was unrealistic to expect him to come in and dominate right away, especially given he’s been in a sheltered/neutered role. And again, the Rangers have done him no favors with their coaching and usage.

He also seems to be a guy with confidence issues and I think he needs to be nurtured, but I think the Rangers M.O. is 1980s style “what’s your problem?” machismo. Like, what, you are a 20 year old with no support structure away from home in the most wild city on the globe, why aren’t you flourishing on your own? It doesn’t strike them that they may need to baby the kid a little.

 

[NickyFotiu]

"Well behind". 4 points from Chytil and Laf, people need to stop acting like Laf and Chytil was some how impressing in these playoffs.

Disgusting to read this thread, 21 years old player with almost a season ending injury, but go ahead.

4 points behind is almost 50% behind in production. Forget the very poor production for a second. Did it seem to you like he was doing as much as Chytil and Laf? Im not hating on him. I want him to be great. Im just saying he has to produce if he wants his spot. No different than any other top 9 player. Chytil was benched twice. Laf was benched once. Everyone in that top 9 has to produce.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Hey man, maybe you might wanna formulate the question in this form "Is he really sucking that much?"

Imagine someone from the Rags forum coming over to yours earlier this season, when he struggled, asking "why is Caufield sucking so much?".

I mean that question was answered. Two words. Dominic Ducharme. I'm just curious cause I had Kakko at 4 on my predraft rankings in 2019 (I had a player crushes on Hughes, Zegras, and Caufield lol) so I obviously thought he was really good. But from the few times I've seen from him, he hasn't really stood out. I was just wondering what an more educated rangers fan's take was on the matter...

 

[QJL]

4 points behind is almost 50% behind in production. Forget the very poor production for a second. Did it seem to you like he was doing as much as Chytil and Laf? Im not hating on him. I want him to be great. Im just saying he has to produce if he wants his spot. No different than any other top 9 player. Chytil was benched twice. Laf was benched once. Everyone in that top 9 has to produce.

I’ve already said it on this forum page, but Kakko outproduced Panarin and Strome in ES points per 60 in the playoffs and he was right there with Lafreniere. He had no power play time. His production was fine. His line outscored opponents 10-5 in the playoffs. The take that he wasn’t playing or producing well enough to stay in the lineup is just not valid.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

the only way someone could think the kid line was a disappointment was looking at pure points

They were far and away the Rangers best line this post season and it’s really not even close.

Laughable to suggest otherwise

 

[Leonardo87]

I fear an offer sheet may be inevitable. Would cost a team only a 2nd round pick for a 4 million cap hit. That is overpayment based on his production, but they would be betting on his future development and potential since he is only 21 yo. Would the Rangers match 4 million? They have several players to re-sign including a 2C spot which will cost between 5-6 million. Seems will be very tight the cap.

I think other GMs are gonna see his lack of ice time and less opportunity here, and think they will take a risk on a larger cap hit and losing a 2nd round pick. There is still so much potential for Kakko who is still young.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I mean that question was answered. Two words. Dominic Ducharme. I'm just curious cause I had Kakko at 4 on my predraft rankings in 2019 (I had a player crushes on Hughes, Zegras, and Caufield lol) so I obviously thought he was really good. But from the few times I've seen from him, he hasn't really stood out. I was just wondering what an more educated rangers fan's take was on the matter...

There's a variety of factors I think that are at play. The thing is you can see the talent with Kakko. It's a very particular set of skills. When he's in the corner and wants to maintain control of the puck, he's damn near impossible to take it away from, almost Crosby level in that respect. The issue is he then doesn't know what to do with it. He's constantly looking to dish it from there but it seems no one is getting open for him. Not sure that is a systems thing, players he's playing with, or just isn't setting himself up in a good position to make passes.

Regardless he does have some serious weaknesses such as his speed and his shot (Both of which have been slowly getting better). The biggest area of concern is his personality. He doesn't have enough alpha in him. He passes up great opportunities to shoot, often will defer to vets, and sulks when things aren't going his way in the game.

With that being all said, I still have high hopes from him. A lot of it is confidence as I just said. I think what he really needs is a really hot start to the season, to let him know that he does actually belong. If he puts in the time this offseason, I think he can breakout for the next season, especially if that Kid Line stays intact and all of them take another step in their development.

 

[SA16]

I fear an offer sheet may be inevitable. Would cost a team only a 2nd round pick for a 4 million cap hit. That is overpayment based on his production, but they would be betting on his future development and potential since he is only 21 yo. Would the Rangers match 4 million? They have several players to re-sign including a 2C spot which will cost between 5-6 million. Seems will be very tight the cap.

I think other GMs are gonna see his lack of ice time and less opportunity here, and think they will take a risk on a larger cap hit and losing a 2nd round pick. There is still so much potential for Kakko who is still young.

Nobody is likely to offer sheet him for a second round pick because it's a waste of time and will just get matched. You can say teams in the division will try to to mess with the Rangers cap but that has literally never happened outside of one retaliatory offer sheet which then led to what is likely a really bad long term deal for a player who hasn't shown he deserves it.

 

[QJL]

Nobody is likely to offer sheet him for a second round pick because it's a waste of time and will just get matched. You can say teams in the division will try to to mess with the Rangers cap but that has literally never happened outside of one retaliatory offer sheet which then led to what is likely a really bad long term deal for a player who hasn't shown he deserves it.

I wouldn’t be so sure. Drury might think keeping Copp, Motte, Vatrano is more important than keeping Kakko. Sure, they’d likely match, but they’d only match 4M with a plan to trade him shortly after. No chance they can fit 4M Kakko, Laf, Miller, and anything else of substance in 23-24.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I’ve already said it on this forum page, but Kakko outproduced Panarin and Strome in ES points per 60 in the playoffs and he was right there with Lafreniere. He had no power play time. His production was fine. His line outscored opponents 10-5 in the playoffs. The take that he wasn’t playing or producing well enough to stay in the lineup is just not valid.

Those stats are good to consider but the reason a lot of guys have more PP points isnt just about time. Its because they are better PP players. This reminds me of years ago when someone in the media asked why Carl Hagelin doesn't play more on the PP. The answer was because he was not a good PP player. I want KK to be a great player. I hope he becomes one but he is not going to be given time indefinitely. He has to produce. If he was producing more there is no reason he wouldn't play more. We have other young forwards (Krav, Oth) on the way up. KK could be passed by them if he continues to be around a .35 point per game player.

 

[QJL]

Those stats are good to consider but the reason a lot of guys have more PP points isnt just about time. Its because they are better PP players. This reminds me of years ago when someone in the media asked why Carl Hagelin doesn't play more on the PP. The answer was because he was not a good PP player. I want KK to be a great player. I hope he becomes one but he is not going to be given time indefinitely. He has to produce. If he was producing more there is no reason he wouldn't play more. We have other young forwards (Krav, Oth) on the way up. KK could be passed by them if he continues to be around a .35 point per game player.

Power play production is no excuse for giving one of our best 5v5 players less time at 5v5, or f*****g benching him. It just doesn’t make sense. He was producing. His primary 5v5 point production at 5v5 was parallel to even Zib and Kreider.

Gallant has zero excuse for playing Laf-Chytil-Kakko a minimum of 15 minutes at even strength every night.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

4 points behind is almost 50% behind in production. Forget the very poor production for a second. Did it seem to you like he was doing as much as Chytil and Laf? Im not hating on him. I want him to be great. Im just saying he has to produce if he wants his spot. No different than any other top 9 player. Chytil was benched twice. Laf was benched once. Everyone in that top 9 has to produce.

	5v5 p/60
Chytil	2.01
Laf	1.65
Kakko	1.38

Chytil really had great playoffs, No doubt about it. The difference between Kakko and Laf is not that big. It's under 20% in raw data, and Laf even got some minutes with Ziba, while Kakko played some with Reaves and Rooney.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Power play production is no excuse for giving one of our best 5v5 players less time at 5v5, or f*****g benching him. It just doesn’t make sense. He was producing. His primary 5v5 point production at 5v5 was parallel to even Zib and Kreider.

Gallant has zero excuse for playing Laf-Chytil-Kakko a minimum of 15 minutes at even strength every night.

KK were not the primary pusher of the 3rd line imo. Both Laf and Chytil stepped up. Im not bashing KK. I said similar things about Laf before his benching. Laf picked it up afterwards. I want KK to pick it up as well. Do you want to play Krav, Otho and other young guys behind KK if KK continues to produce at .35 points per game? I want him to earn his time just like Laf is lately. Show us a reason to be a top line player. We all want that to happen.

 

[Crease]

The fact that we're even discussing the possibility of another disgruntled top pick sucks.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The fact that we're even discussing the possibility of another disgruntled top pick sucks.

Nobody wants our young guys to produce more than our management whose jobs are on the line. Laf is on the way up. Fox, Lindgren, and Miller are already there. Schneider had a good rookie year. Oth looks promising. Lias Anderson was a bust in a bad draft and a headcase. Nobody's fault. Hopefully Krav can show he belongs. KK has been given plenty of chances. We all want him to succeed.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I really think you have to give KK one more year to prove himself. It really feels like he's on the cusp of putting it together.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I really think you have to give KK one more year to prove himself. It really feels like he's on the cusp of putting it together.

Definitely give him the chance. Let him know we think he can be very good. Instill confidence but push for production. Push for shots.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Definitely give him the chance. Let him know we think he can be very good. Instill confidence but push for production. Push for shots.

It really feels like a mental thing. They have to tell him to attack the middle more.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It really feels like a mental thing. They have to tell him to attack the middle more.

I said for a while install the mindset with Laf of 1 shot a period. Not that he will reach it but thats the mindset.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The team was dead, they had nothing left in the tank. Gallant was hoping for a miracle. I disagree with him scratching Kakko though, I thought he played well. I'm not gonna second guess the coach, he got more out of this team than anyone would have predicted at the start of the season.

 

[will1066]

The fact that we're even discussing the possibility of another disgruntled top pick sucks.

This is just a natural byproduct of a hybrid rebuild or whatever you want to call the Rangers' version of a rebuild.