Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[will1066]

I'm waiting on what he's going to say to the Finnish media. He's not going to speak out loud any more than for NY media, but natives will get a better feel on how it feels.

I joked earlier that Kakko was going to reach out to Finnish media, but doesn't Drury have the clamps on players going to non-English media?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yes. I remember the 8 points in 8 games with Strome/Panarin followed by him inexplicably being moved off that line.

In the regular season KK actually averaged more minutes than all forwards not named Zibs, CK, Bread Goodrow and Strome before the late season addition of Copp. Goodrow got more because of the PK. KK got more than Vatrano who was playing on the first line. They want KK to succeed. Everyone wants him to succeed.

My fear is what if he was never meant to be a big scorer? I looked at his stats in other leagues. They are not overwhelming. Is it possible his ceiling is a 20-20 guy? I hope not but I really hope he can at last be a 15-40 guy by next season. Looking at that years draft I'm wondering if it was just a weak first round.

 

[charliemurphy]

This situation is f***ed along with scratching Reaves.
Can someone explain why Gallant iced a borderline AHL player and a veteran who couldn't hit water if he fell out of boat who also couldn't finish the game much less play during the game in an elimination game?
Trying to figure it because Gallant had no explanation to the press or the players?
Is that a good look for the organization? How does that look to other young players who get drafted by the Rangers?

 

[SA16]

In the regular season KK actually averaged more minutes than all forwards not named Zibs, CK, Bread Goodrow and Strome before the late season addition of Copp. Goodrow got more because of the PK. KK got more than Vatrano who was playing on the first line. They want KK to succeed. Everyone wants him to succeed.

My fear is what if he was never meant to be a big scorer? I looked at his stats in other leagues. They are not overwhelming. Is it possible his ceiling is a 20-20 guy? I hope not but I really hope he can at last be a 15-40 guy by next season.

I don't know what you mean. Here are top 10 picks out of Liiga in recent years

Laine: 17 goals, 16 assists in 46 games as a 17 year old
Kakko: 22 goals, 16 assists, in 45 games as a 17 year old
Barkov: 21 goals, 27 assists, in 53 games as a 17 year old
Puljujarvi: 13 goals, 15 assist, in 50 games as a 17 year old
Rantanen: 5 goals, 4 assists, in 37 games as a 17 year old (9 goals, 19 assists in 56 games as an 18 year old)
Kotkaniemi: 10 goals, 19 assists, 57 games as a 17 year old
Granlund: 13 goals, 27 assists, in 43 games as a 17 year old.

His numbers are right there with Laine/Barkov/and Granlund for the best performance of any top 10 Finnish pick in their 17 year old season.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Will this play a role in Kakko’s contract negotiations? “I don’t think so. I like to play here.” Said if anything, it will be more motivation.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't know what you mean. Here are top 10 picks out of Liiga in recent years

Laine: 17 goals, 16 assists in 46 games as a 17 year old
Kakko: 22 goals, 16 assists, in 45 games as a 17 year old
Barkov: 21 goals, 27 assists, in 53 games as a 17 year old
Puljujarvi: 13 goals, 15 assist, in 50 games as a 17 year old
Rantanen: 5 goals, 4 assists, in 37 games as a 17 year old (9 goals, 19 assists in 56 games as an 18 year old)
Kotkaniemi: 10 goals, 19 assists, 57 games as a 17 year old
Granlund: 13 goals, 27 assists, in 43 games as a 17 year old.

His numbers are right there with Laine/Barkov/and Granlund for the best performance of any top 10 Finnish pick in their 17 year old season.

I understand you are saying they are good for that league but some guys put up numbers like those in Euro leagues that are not huge scorers in the NHL. That is 38 points in 45 games. Fast had what people said were some "good" numbers in the Swedish leagues as well. When I'm thinking eye opening numbers I'm talking numbers like guys like Laf, or McDavid had. Hopefully KK can show a 30-40 goal season one day.

 

[SA16]

I understand you are saying they are good for that league but some guys put up numbers like those in Euro leagues that are not huge scorers in the NHL. That is 38 points in 45 games. Fast had what people said were some "good" numbers in the Swedish leagues as well. When I'm thinking eye opening numbers I'm talking numbers like guys like Laf, or McDavid had. Hopefully KK can show a 30-40 goal season one day.

Well it's a lot easier to score in junior than in pro league. Kakko's numbers are right in line or better than anyone else taken out of that league.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Well it's a lot easier to score in junior than in pro league. Kakko's numbers are right in line or better than anyone else taken out of that league.

I understand that but my point is that some players only put up a certain amount of points regardless of which league. Some put up more as well.

Some people on this board said that Jasper Fasts (35-45 point) stats in the Swedish leagues were good but how did they translate to the NHL?

I'm hoping Kappo will get a lot more than 35-45 points in the NHL.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I understand you are saying they are good for that league but some guys put up numbers like those in Euro leagues that are not huge scorers in the NHL. That is 38 points in 45 games. Fast had what people said were some "good" numbers in the Swedish leagues as well. When I'm thinking eye opening numbers I'm talking numbers like guys like Laf, or McDavid had. Hopefully KK can show a 30-40 goal season one day.

if you'll notice Kakko had more points per game than Barkov did at D-1 to compare apples to apples.
For guys who play Major Juniors like laf in the Q or Mcdavid in the OHL, the oldest player they'll play against is what 21-22? They're never going to play against someone who's 25-26 with full man strength/speed. In the SHL or LIIGA there are guys as old as 40+.
There are some ex-nhl guys in those teams as well.

 

[mas0764]

I don't know what you mean. Here are top 10 picks out of Liiga in recent years

Laine: 17 goals, 16 assists in 46 games as a 17 year old
Kakko: 22 goals, 16 assists, in 45 games as a 17 year old
Barkov: 21 goals, 27 assists, in 53 games as a 17 year old
Puljujarvi: 13 goals, 15 assist, in 50 games as a 17 year old
Rantanen: 5 goals, 4 assists, in 37 games as a 17 year old (9 goals, 19 assists in 56 games as an 18 year old)
Kotkaniemi: 10 goals, 19 assists, 57 games as a 17 year old
Granlund: 13 goals, 27 assists, in 43 games as a 17 year old.

His numbers are right there with Laine/Barkov/and Granlund for the best performance of any top 10 Finnish pick in their 17 year old season.

To be fair Barkov didn't break out till 20, Rantanen till 21.

Maybe it's still coming for Kakko.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

I joked earlier that Kakko was going to reach out to Finnish media, but doesn't Drury have the clamps on players going to non-English media?

Drury isn't the gestapo. You are confusing formal media/PA relations before/after games and what Loffin is implying is as soon as Kaako goes back home to train with the boys you know Finnish media is salivating to get a scoop on a story. He'll feel more comfortable explaining his thoughts in his native tongue vs English and the NY media that loves twisting words. (Looking at you Larry)

 

[anthonyd46]

This situation is f***ed along with scratching Reaves.
Can someone explain why Gallant iced a borderline AHL player and a veteran who couldn't hit water if he fell out of boat who also couldn't finish the game much less play during the game in an elimination game?
Trying to figure it because Gallant had no explanation to the press or the players?
Is that a good look for the organization? How does that look to other young players who get drafted by the Rangers?

The only thing I could think is GG was trying to put some players out there that weren't as gassed as Rooney didn't play the first 3 games of this series and Hunt hadn't played since Game 3 of the PIT series, but is the drop is player quality really worth the fresh legs? That's where it doesn't make much sense.

On top of that as you said the Strome decision really makes no sense out of all of it, because it was obvious he couldn't play a full game.

I get the whole wanting to change things up, but if you are going to make changes you need to make them to improve why something is not working neither of these moves did that at all.

 

[SA16]

I understand that but my point is that some players only put up a certain amount of points regardless of which league. Some put up more as well.

Some people on this board said that Jasper Fasts (35-45 point) stats in the Swedish leagues were good but how did they translate to the NHL?

I'm hoping Kappo will get a lot more than 35-45 points in the NHL.

Fast was 21 years old in that season. When he was 17 he was playing his first year of swedish junior hockey and scored 14 points in 37 games (10th on the team)

 

[NickyFotiu]

Fast was 21 years old in that season. When he was 17 he was playing his first year of swedish junior hockey and scored 14 points in 37 games (10th on the team)

Okay Ill listen to what you say and keep hope that there is more to come. I was underwhelmed by Laf before the all-star game and happy with him since. Hopefully KK will raise his game like Laf did. This will be his 4th season so hopefully that is enough time.

if you'll notice Kakko had more points per game than Barkov did at D-1 to compare apples to apples.
For guys who play Major Juniors like laf in the Q or Mcdavid in the OHL, the oldest player they'll play against is what 21-22? They're never going to play against someone who's 25-26 with full man strength/speed. In the SHL or LIIGA there are guys as old as 40+.
There are some ex-nhl guys in those teams as well.

I understand its not the same. I just hope 40 points is not his ceiling in the NHL. Im rooting for him just like most Ranger fans.

 

[CLW]

To me, it's not about motivation. Very few players who reach this level are so skilled they can get by with just that. The majority of NHLers have the motivation to work out and train. I'm just questioning do these kids know HOW to train and develop themselves. This is why NHLers hire skating coaches, professional nutritionists, personal trainers, even sports psychologists.

Now from what I've understood, Kakko has taken skating lessons in Finland as well. But these are because he himself has tried to get them, this was last summer. The Rangers have had no input (from what I've understood). Why? The biggest glaring weakness of Kakko at this moment is his speed. The Rangers should basically tell him to drop everything else and just spend the summer on ice. Maybe spend a couple of hours training your shot with Rantanen or Laine. Instead, Kakko will probably hit the weights and do his usual regimen, and skate for a few weeks/month before the camp.

Last year at the exit interview Kakko said that he'd focus his off season training on "skating and power". He did just that. This spring GG said that Kakko had gained a bit of weight from his training when he was out injured. Clearly it's the Rangers view that he should be a traditional power forward type (Kreider, Jagr). But in today's game skating is becoming a crucial factor and that is where he has to improve, burst speed especially. I do think the club is giving the players the general layout for how they want them to develop, but they are not legally allowed to hand them step by step guides/rules for the off season.

 

[Tob]

This is a bit of contract posturing. Kakko's agent has had time to think this over. Rangers fanbase social media on obviously on Gallant for the scratch plus the lack of explanation for 2 days. Kakko saying all the right things today but adding in "i wasn't communicated with at all, just found out when I saw the jerseys" to let the media run with that story. After Andersson, Kravtsov, and now Kakko, the pressure is on Drury to get him signed before offer sheets can come in. If Kakko gets offer sheeted, it's just like the Koktaniemi situation, a bad look for the management and the coaches. "Gallant chased Kakko out, organization doesn't communicate, again."

The threat of an offer sheet looms large. The league is watching. This would be Drury's biggest blunder if Kakko is allowed to be offer sheeted.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm waiting on what he's going to say to the Finnish media. He's not going to speak out loud any more than for NY media, but natives will get a better feel on how it feels.

I mean I think you can already guess what he's going to say. He wasn't told he was getting scratched and there was no conversation about it. No player likes to get scratched, he's not going to be happy about it, but he also needs to kind of look in the mirror here a little bit and figure out if he wants to be the player that people projected him to be at the draft or if he's content in a middling role. People can say all they want about power play time is what line he's on and all this other crap, bottom line is good players make an impact and they force you to play them. He's been here for 3 years and he doesn't do that. I'm hopeful that if he's here next year he finally takes the reins and horses everybody's hand to play him rather than leaving us all saying oh there was a really good defensive play and that was a really good chance that he had but he didn't score on it, he has to be the most snakebit player ever And he's have to start going in for him at some time.

This kid absolutely needs to work on his shot and skating though. When you watch him at times you can see that nobody respects his shot so they all play for the deke or the wide move and then they beat him there.

There wasn't encouraging thing in his media today where he went out of his way to talk about how much he likes playing in New York, so we didn't give any indications that he wants to go. I want this kid to succeed I want him to become a player, but I'm not going to sit there constantly and be looking to pick things out for why he might be a good player down the road when he's 3 years into his NHL career is a second overall pick. Fans shouldn't need to be looking for a reason why this kid isn't going to suck down the road He should be showing us why he's going to be an impact player even if he isn't one right now.

 

[haveandare]

This is a bit of contract posturing. Kakko's agent has had time to think this over. Rangers fanbase social media on obviously on Gallant for the scratch plus the lack of explanation for 2 days. Kakko saying all the right things today but adding in "i wasn't communicated with at all, just found out when I saw the jerseys" to let the media run with that story. After Andersson, Kravtsov, and now Kakko, the pressure is on Drury to get him signed before offer sheets can come in. If Kakko gets offer sheeted, it's just like the Koktaniemi situation, a bad look for the management and the coaches. "Gallant chased Kakko out, organization doesn't communicate, again."

The threat of an offer sheet looms large. The league is watching. This would be Drury's biggest blunder if Kakko is allowed to be offer sheeted.

Kakko is imo a way more promising player than Kotkanieni but imo Carolina looks a lot dumber than Montreal for how that played out. They spite signed a so far barely 4th line player to a huge long term deal.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Kakko is imo a way more promising player than Kotkanieni but imo Carolina looks a lot dumber than Montreal for how that played out. They spite signed a so far barely 4th line player to a huge long term deal.

honestly i think that helps us a ton. because it made it clear that offersheets are a terrible idea.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Kakko will be fine. Really want to watch him moved and read about him for the next decade? Have a little patience people

 

[will1066]

 

[chosen]

This situation is f***ed along with scratching Reaves.
Can someone explain why Gallant iced a borderline AHL player and a veteran who couldn't hit water if he fell out of boat who also couldn't finish the game much less play during the game in an elimination game?
Trying to figure it because Gallant had no explanation to the press or the players?
Is that a good look for the organization? How does that look to other young players who get drafted by the Rangers?

His anger told me that Kakko did something to infuriate Gallant. Never saw him like that the entire season.

Wondering how you know what Gallant told his players.

Am I reading this correctly? You're angry Reaves was scratched?

He was arguably their worst forward of the entire playoffs.

 

[CLW]

honestly i think that helps us a ton. because it made it clear that offersheets are a terrible idea.

How so? The Canes gave Kotkaniemi a long term contract. If RBA didn't see anything there they wouldn't have done so. In other words that offersheet play is far from over. The Canes are betting that once he grows into that lanky frame of his he'll be damn good player on a GREAT contract for them for a long time.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Kakko ranked 2nd in Rangers and 4th in the entire series in scoring chance contributions per 60

 

[CLW]

Kakko ranked 2nd in Rangers and 4th in the entire series in scoring chance contributions per 60

Just the guy to scratch for Dryden Hunt. My brain hurts.