Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[Jauffre]

 

[NCRanger]

So you want to trade away a 50 goal scorer and the backbone of our defense to keep unproven talent. Got it.

The two examples of us being right there with Toronto and Carolina is kind if accurate They didn't win a cup either. In fact, You are actually wrong about us being right there with them. We outperformed both teams. We are closer than they are.

No one is saying trade away everyone, or every pick.

Trading for Kane is not stupid. Not if you want a more clear path to winning a Championship. Dreaming about a mini-dynasty is great. How about we win one Cup first, then we worry about the next one.

Trading for guys like Kane created the situation that lead to the Dark Ages.

The Rangers SHOULD have had a mini-dynasty in the early 90's, but a dumb two week lockout and a whining Penguin team saw to it that didn't happen.

Hence, Keenan gets hired, forces too many moves to get "grittier" and they do just enough to win in '94.

Trying to win again after that cost almost every draft pick and any depth there may have been in the organization.

While I certainly understand the thought behind trading for a Kane at the deadline to try to win ONE Cup, this team currently is better than the 91-92 team, and assuming the young stars of the team aren't going to play drinking games in a bar after closing leading to someone's ankle shattering, we aren't going to see a repeat of 92-93, forcing the organization into a MUST WIN ONE NOW mindset.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Trading for guys like Kane created the situation that lead to the Dark Ages.

The Rangers SHOULD have had a mini-dynasty in the early 90's, but a dumb two week lockout and a whining Penguin team saw to it that didn't happen.

Hence, Keenan gets hired, forces too many moves to get "grittier" and they do just enough to win in '94.

Trying to win again after that cost almost every draft pick and any depth there may have been in the organization.

While I certainly understand the thought behind trading for a Kane at the deadline to try to win ONE Cup, this team currently is better than the 91-92 team, and assuming the young stars of the team aren't going to play drinking games in a bar after closing leading to someone's ankle shattering, we aren't going to see a repeat of 92-93, forcing the organization into a MUST WIN ONE NOW mindset.

gotta keep a vigilant eye on fox’s ankles this year

 

[mas0764]

So you want to trade away a 50 goal scorer and the backbone of our defense to keep unproven talent. Got it.

I want to retain our elite young players like our first overall pick in Lafrieniere and developing stud K'Andre Miller, not "unproven talent." I want to keep guys with high end potential like Chytil and Kakko because I want to be winning in more than 2 years once guys like Kreider start to decline.

If I could keep everyone and extend those young players, I would, but it's not affordable.

Someone high paid has to go. Since it's not going to be Panarin or Zibanejad, it should be either the relatively redundant 2nd pair defender we have, or, if the haul is big enough, the 31 year old left wing since we have 2 other high end LWs on the roster currently and another in the system.

If Kreider was 26 this is a far different conversation, but he's not.

Trouba, spare me. He's not the backbone of our defense. Fox, Miller and Lindgren are already all more important than he is. He was a player we acquired before we knew that we had a superstar in Fox and before we knew that we had other elite defensive talent on hand in Miller, Schneider, Nils, and Jones, and even before we knew Lindgren would be a solid 1st pair partner.

Trouba was acquired under circumstances where it made sense to pay him. Now we have cheap talent in spades who will soon be able to closely replicate or surpass his very second pair-ish impact. He's not long for the team. We will need his money sooner rather than later and the target is squarely on his back.

The two examples of us being right there with Toronto and Carolina is kind if accurate They didn't win a cup either. In fact, You are actually wrong about us being right there with them. We outperformed both teams. We are closer than they are.

No one is saying trade away everyone, or every pick.

Trading for Kane is not stupid. Not if you want a more clear path to winning a Championship. Dreaming about a mini-dynasty is great. How about we win one Cup first, then we worry about the next one.

Trading Kakko or Chytil for Kane would be stupid. Especially Kakko.

Chytil makes SLIGHLY more sense because you could argue we are locked into two top 6 centers for the next handful of years and Chytil has less pedigree so it's less certain he pans out to more than like a 40 point player.

It still doesn't make sense for 1 run, since we can't afford to sign Kane long term (and shouldn't pay a 34 year old long term anyway).

In a normal year I'd say I'm ok giving up a first rounder and a lesser prospect and other picks, like we did for Copp, but I'm not even willing to give up my first in this coming center-heavy draft.

The Rangers have loaded up with or tied themselves to top-heavy aging forwards for a run now. If they can't get it done, then oh well. Continuing to rent every single year is horrible, and they spent assets last deadline.

Parting with more for Kane at the deadline is bad business when renting ALMOST NEVER WORKS ANYWAY.

Frankly the stats would show they are just as likely to win at all by not adding, as they would by adding. It's a delusion, this idea that adding big names at the deadline for exhorbitant prices helps you win the Cup. No, it rarely does, and most winners the past decade added very little.

 

[cwede]

... Trouba, spare me. He's not the backbone of our defense. Fox, Miller and Lindgren are already all more important than he is. He was a player we acquired before we knew that we had a superstar in Fox and before we knew that we had other elite defensive talent on hand in Miller, Schneider, Nils, and Jones, and even before we knew Lindgren would be a solid 1st pair partner ...

this i disagree with strongly
Trouba eats the hard minutes that puts Fox in position to be Fox

couple years back, Fox and ADA only have their breakout seasons thanks to Trouba's heavy lifting.

Do I expect he finishes his contract with NYR? Maybe not

but for this team, and especially this coming season, IMHO,
he is essential part of the core, the identity, and the success

 

[mas0764]

this i disagree with strongly
Trouba eats the hard minutes that puts Fox in position to be Fox

couple years back, Fox and ADA only have their breakout seasons thanks to Trouba's heavy lifting.

Do I expect he finishes his contract with NYR? Maybe not

but for this team, and especially this coming season, IMHO,
he is essential part of the core, the identity, and the success

That still doesn't mean he's the backbone of the defense. It means you need a minutes eater who can handle big minutes without being a Patrick Nemeth on the ice. You can find that for a lot cheaper than $8m. For $8m you should be getting nearly Norris performance (Fox, Makar both make $9m~).

Trouba grades out very much as a second pair defender. He's not some Ryan McDonagh first pair but playing on Tampa's second pair. Trouba is just a second pairing minutes eater.

He's just not worth it and we need the money.

I didn't say he's not a good player and if he was making $4m then he could stay, but he's just making far too much for his role. He was paid $8m on the assumption that he would be the QB on PP1 and he'd be eating first pairing minutes for the majority of that contract. Then we fell ass backwards into Fox, who developed into a superstar, Miller's development skyrocketed, Lindgren turned into another minutes-eating horse, and we also found Braden Schneider. On top of all of that, Covid happened and we got a flat cap that is squeezing us.

Trouba isn't a bad player. He's just an unaffordable one given our cap situation and the glut of cheap, talented defenders in our system.

I have to keep pointing out his flaws because people like him and try to justify him staying by arguing he's better than he is.

He's fine. But in the pecking order of who should get our cap dollars, Lafreniere, Miller, Kakko, and Chytil should all come ahead of him.

So no, we should not be moving Lafreniere, or Miller, or Kakko, or Chytil. These guys are all vital to our future.

Trouba is barely vital to our present.

 

[DanielBrassard]

That still doesn't mean he's the backbone of the defense. It means you need a minutes eater who can handle big minutes without being a Patrick Nemeth on the ice. You can find that for a lot cheaper than $8m. For $8m you should be getting nearly Norris performance (Fox, Makar both make $9m~).

Trouba grades out very much as a second pair defender. He's not some Ryan McDonagh first pair but playing on Tampa's second pair. Trouba is just a second pairing minutes eater.

He's just not worth it and we need the money.

I didn't say he's not a good player and if he was making $4m then he could stay, but he's just making far too much for his role. He was paid $8m on the assumption that he would be the QB on PP1 and he'd be eating first pairing minutes for the majority of that contract. Then we fell ass backwards into Fox, who developed into a superstar, Miller's development skyrocketed, Lindgren turned into another minutes-eating horse, and we also found Braden Schneider. On top of all of that, Covid happened and we got a flat cap that is squeezing us.

Trouba isn't a bad player. He's just an unaffordable one given our cap situation and the glut of cheap, talented defenders in our system.

I have to keep pointing out his flaws because people like him and try to justify him staying by arguing he's better than he is.

He's fine. But in the pecking order of who should get our cap dollars, Lafreniere, Miller, Kakko, and Chytil should all come ahead of him.

So no, we should not be moving Lafreniere, or Miller, or Kakko, or Chytil. These guys are all vital to our future.

Trouba is barely vital to our present.

Hard to disagree with what you are saying. It's unfortunate but he's just making too much money for the role he now fills on the roster. We would be better off with a Tanev or Manson type making almost half the cap hit.

 

[Leonardo87]

I'll be seriously disappointed if we move any of Lafreniere, Kakko, Shesterkin or Miller. To me these guys are the foundation that this rebuild is supposed to be built on and they should be Rangers for 7 or 8 years atleast.

Problem with this organization they have no patience. They’ll go out and sign the big free agents like Panarin, Trocheck, or Trouba which handcuffs them into a win now window. This then takes ice times away from the kids who may not perform to their potential if not given the opportunities and then the organization moves on from them.

Colorado and Tampa build their cup winning teams from drafting and making trades. I don’t believe they signed any big free agents except some role players.

Rangers fans are always looking for the next big shiny toy that’s available on the market like now it’s Tkachuk.

Just let these kids grow into what they are projected to be and will have them for a decade.

 

[cwede]

That still doesn't mean he's the backbone of the defense. It means you need a minutes eater who can handle big minutes without being a Patrick Nemeth on the ice. You can find that for a lot cheaper than $8m. For $8m you should be getting nearly Norris performance (Fox, Makar both make $9m~).

Trouba grades out very much as a second pair defender. He's not some Ryan McDonagh first pair but playing on Tampa's second pair. Trouba is just a second pairing minutes eater.

He's just not worth it and we need the money.

I didn't say he's not a good player and if he was making $4m then he could stay, but he's just making far too much for his role. He was paid $8m on the assumption that he would be the QB on PP1 and he'd be eating first pairing minutes for the majority of that contract. Then we fell ass backwards into Fox, who developed into a superstar, Miller's development skyrocketed, Lindgren turned into another minutes-eating horse, and we also found Braden Schneider. On top of all of that, Covid happened and we got a flat cap that is squeezing us.

Trouba isn't a bad player. He's just an unaffordable one given our cap situation and the glut of cheap, talented defenders in our system.

I have to keep pointing out his flaws because people like him and try to justify him staying by arguing he's better than he is.

He's fine. But in the pecking order of who should get our cap dollars, Lafreniere, Miller, Kakko, and Chytil should all come ahead of him.

So no, we should not be moving Lafreniere, or Miller, or Kakko, or Chytil. These guys are all vital to our future.

Trouba is barely vital to our present.

Hard to disagree with what you are saying. It's unfortunate but he's just making too much money for the role he now fills on the roster. We would be better off with a Tanev or Manson type making almost half the cap hit.

respectfully disagree
LGR

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wouldn’t feel comfortable moving Trouba until I feel good about sliding Schneider into that spot.

After 2 more years? Yeah we might be there.

It’s actually one of those contracts that becomes moveable at the right time.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Trading for guys like Kane created the situation that lead to the Dark Ages.

The Rangers SHOULD have had a mini-dynasty in the early 90's, but a dumb two week lockout and a whining Penguin team saw to it that didn't happen.

Hence, Keenan gets hired, forces too many moves to get "grittier" and they do just enough to win in '94.

Trying to win again after that cost almost every draft pick and any depth there may have been in the organization.

While I certainly understand the thought behind trading for a Kane at the deadline to try to win ONE Cup, this team currently is better than the 91-92 team, and assuming the young stars of the team aren't going to play drinking games in a bar after closing leading to someone's ankle shattering, we aren't going to see a repeat of 92-93, forcing the organization into a MUST WIN ONE NOW mindset.

There is no forcing the must-win one now mindset. It is already ingrained in the mindset of Drury, Gallant, Dolan etc. Frankly, if it's not fire everyone. We already saw Dolan clean house at the end of the 2020-21 season because Groton, JD, and Quinn weren't in a must-win one now mentality. You did not hire Gallant to helm a rebuild. You hired Gallant to win a cup over the next 3 to 4 years. The window is NOW. If Kane is available, and he tells Chicago he only wants to come to NY Drury will make that deal happen.

 

[Baby Punisher]

I want to retain our elite young players like our first overall pick in Lafrieniere and developing stud K'Andre Miller, not "unproven talent." I want to keep guys with high end potential like Chytil and Kakko because I want to be winning in more than 2 years once guys like Kreider start to decline.

If I could keep everyone and extend those young players, I would, but it's not affordable.

Someone high paid has to go. Since it's not going to be Panarin or Zibanejad, it should be either the relatively redundant 2nd pair defender we have, or, if the haul is big enough, the 31 year old left wing since we have 2 other high end LWs on the roster currently and another in the system.

If Kreider was 26 this is a far different conversation, but he's not.

Trouba, spare me. He's not the backbone of our defense. Fox, Miller and Lindgren are already all more important than he is. He was a player we acquired before we knew that we had a superstar in Fox and before we knew that we had other elite defensive talent on hand in Miller, Schneider, Nils, and Jones, and even before we knew Lindgren would be a solid 1st pair partner.

Trouba was acquired under circumstances where it made sense to pay him. Now we have cheap talent in spades who will soon be able to closely replicate or surpass his very second pair-ish impact. He's not long for the team. We will need his money sooner rather than later and the target is squarely on his back.



Trading Kakko or Chytil for Kane would be stupid. Especially Kakko.

Chytil makes SLIGHLY more sense because you could argue we are locked into two top 6 centers for the next handful of years and Chytil has less pedigree so it's less certain he pans out to more than like a 40 point player.

It still doesn't make sense for 1 run, since we can't afford to sign Kane long term (and shouldn't pay a 34 year old long term anyway).

In a normal year I'd say I'm ok giving up a first rounder and a lesser prospect and other picks, like we did for Copp, but I'm not even willing to give up my first in this coming center-heavy draft.

The Rangers have loaded up with or tied themselves to top-heavy aging forwards for a run now. If they can't get it done, then oh well. Continuing to rent every single year is horrible, and they spent assets last deadline.

Parting with more for Kane at the deadline is bad business when renting ALMOST NEVER WORKS ANYWAY.

Frankly the stats would show they are just as likely to win at all by not adding, as they would by adding. It's a delusion, this idea that adding big names at the deadline for exhorbitant prices helps you win the Cup. No, it rarely does, and most winners the past decade added very little.

The way you discount Trouba because you don't like his contract doesn't mesh with the reality of what Trouba has actually done for this team in the regular season and playoffs. Miller is close to tears when he is asked about how much Trouba means to him as a teammate and a person. He is the backbone of this defense.

Kreider isn't going anyway either. They won't ask him to waive his NTC/NMC (which every he has)

I want to emphasize that I am not advocating for trading away all the kids, and high draft picks for every elite player that's out there. That would be dumb. The team will be in a position where they will have to make a deal for a variety of reasons, the NUMBER ONE reason being that they believe that by trading Player Y and adding Player X they are a better team that is closer to winning a cup. If Kane happens to be that player and it cost Kakko, Chytil, Miller, or Schneider so be it. It won't cost all those guys, but one, maybe two are most likely gonna go and you need to reconcile that in your mind. If you want to hold on to Laff (and I do) you gonna have to give up something else. The notion that you can trade away guys with NTCs or trade guys that you specifically brought in the long term to win a cup, like Gooddrow isn't based in reality.

 

[mas0764]

The way you discount Trouba because you don't like his contract doesn't mesh with the reality of what Trouba has actually done for this team in the regular season and playoffs. Miller is close to tears when he is asked about how much Trouba means to him as a teammate and a person. He is the backbone of this defense.

Kreider isn't going anyway either. They won't ask him to waive his NTC/NMC (which every he has)

I want to emphasize that I am not advocating for trading away all the kids, and high draft picks for every elite player that's out there. That would be dumb. The team will be in a position where they will have to make a deal for a variety of reasons, the NUMBER ONE reason being that they believe that by trading Player Y and adding Player X they are a better team that is closer to winning a cup. If Kane happens to be that player and it cost Kakko, Chytil, Miller, or Schneider so be it. It won't cost all those guys, but one, maybe two are most likely gonna go and you need to reconcile that in your mind. If you want to hold on to Laff (and I do) you gonna have to give up something else. The notion that you can trade away guys with NTCs or trade guys that you specifically brought in the long term to win a cup, like Gooddrow isn't based in reality.

You aren’t accurately stating what Trouba’s reality is. He’s a second pair defender and all the stats bear that out. All the extra intangible stuff doesn’t change the fact that he is just not worth $8m for how we are using him and how he’s playing in that role.

Renting is almost always a bad deal that doesn’t work out to the team winning the Cup. The only, ONLY reason you could say that renting this year and throwing away Brad Lambert ended up working out for us was because it got the kids experience. Experience that we will now not be able to claim they need next year.

A player like Kakko who still possesses top line potential should never, ever go for a rental. It’s stupid. The stats bear out that teams who buy heavily rarely win the Cup and most of the past decade of Cup winners did not buy heavily at the deadline.

Wanting to add Kane is one thing, despite those trends and facts. Paying Kakko or Chytil for him is insanity.

 

[Baby Punisher]

You aren’t accurately stating what Trouba’s reality is. He’s a second pair defender and all the stats bear that out. All the extra intangible stuff doesn’t change the fact that he is just not worth $8m for how we are using him and how he’s playing in that role.

Renting is almost always a bad deal that doesn’t work out to the team winning the Cup. The only, ONLY reason you could say that renting this year and throwing away Brad Lambert ended up working out for us was because it got the kids experience. Experience that we will now not be able to claim they need next year.

A player like Kakko who still possesses top line potential should never, ever go for a rental. It’s stupid. The stats bear out that teams who buy heavily rarely win the Cup and most of the past decade of Cup winners did not buy heavily at the deadline.

Wanting to add Kane is one thing, despite those trends and facts. Paying Kakko or Chytil for him is insanity.

Ok, so who are you trading for Kane? Don't say no one. You have to make the trade. Who do you give up?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Also, mentioning that Kreider was a 50-goal scorer is irrelevant to Kakko discussions. It doesn't take that much work to realize that his 50-goal campaign will most likely not be repeatable considering he shot nearly 40% on the powerplay last year. The only time he came close to that was his sophomore season with a much more limited sample size on a much lower shot volume (6 goals on 19 shots).

Now, the Rangers as a team have drawn similar amounts of penalties over the last 5 years, so the opportunity to score should remain similar for Kreider. Assuming he goes back to shooting ~20-25 (still a bit generously above his career average) on the powerplay, you're looking at him scoring 13-16 goals on the powerplay instead of 26. I still think he's going to have potential to be a 30-35goal scorer in this same role.

 

[LyNX27]

That still doesn't mean he's the backbone of the defense. It means you need a minutes eater who can handle big minutes without being a Patrick Nemeth on the ice. You can find that for a lot cheaper than $8m. For $8m you should be getting nearly Norris performance (Fox, Makar both make $9m~).

Trouba grades out very much as a second pair defender. He's not some Ryan McDonagh first pair but playing on Tampa's second pair. Trouba is just a second pairing minutes eater.

He's just not worth it and we need the money.

I didn't say he's not a good player and if he was making $4m then he could stay, but he's just making far too much for his role. He was paid $8m on the assumption that he would be the QB on PP1 and he'd be eating first pairing minutes for the majority of that contract. Then we fell ass backwards into Fox, who developed into a superstar, Miller's development skyrocketed, Lindgren turned into another minutes-eating horse, and we also found Braden Schneider. On top of all of that, Covid happened and we got a flat cap that is squeezing us.

Trouba isn't a bad player. He's just an unaffordable one given our cap situation and the glut of cheap, talented defenders in our system.

I have to keep pointing out his flaws because people like him and try to justify him staying by arguing he's better than he is.

He's fine. But in the pecking order of who should get our cap dollars, Lafreniere, Miller, Kakko, and Chytil should all come ahead of him.

So no, we should not be moving Lafreniere, or Miller, or Kakko, or Chytil. These guys are all vital to our future.

Trouba is barely vital to our present.

I respectfully disagree as well, and literally just wrote a bit on why in his thread...

"
if we didn't have Trouba, we'd be missing a very unique specimen, and we'd basically be open to another 8 million dollar mistake.

This requires a bit more of a detailed look.

Honestly, Trouba gets a lot of schtick around here but he played his heart out, scored 50 points in a season, and was then traded to the New York Rangers at the beginning of a "rebuild/retool" and signed on the dotted line. Would anyone have predicted that we would luck bomb into our D-core the way we did? Can you blame him for taking the contract?

He just hit career highs in Goals (11), Hits (207), Blocks (177), and PIM's (88) as his takeaways diminished a bit. If I described a 28 year old, 6'4, 210 pound, 40 point, hardnose defenseman, who can play 1st/2nd pairing, has put up 50 points (with PP time), without providing a name... I think most would say that, yes he's overpaid but at 8 million, he's hardly "The Problem".

In his first 3 seasons with the Rangers, he's fought 8 times. In 6 seasons he played with the Jets he fought 5 times. His role is different, the team is different, and honestly, the only "issue" I have with him is that he's a luxury of a player to be paying 8 million while putting him on the 2nd pairing (while we play Lindgren with Fox). While that's partially done for chemistry, everyone here knows on the down-low that it gives us a 1A/1B defensive lineup.

If he keeps his elbows down and plays a smart game, I know that he can be the difference maker in a series and do a great job in the regular season. He's weathered the storm that was K'Miller's early seasons and swung series for us with big hits.

He's being played in a limited fashion and he's a bit overpaid, but if we get a cup in the next few seasons, he's a pretty big chapter in the story.
"

Agreed, we should not be moving on from those players but the issue is overpaying a variety of players, not the overpayment of this one player.

Also, stating that Trouba is statistically not a 1st pairing Defenseman is a weird take, and factually/statistically incorrect unless you're hiding some crazy stats... He's in the top 50 of Dmen for all scoring categories and 34th overall in D scoring with double the time SH vs his PP time.

All this on the second pairing with minimized PP time.

 

[mas0764]

Ok, so who are you trading for Kane? Don't say no one. You have to make the trade. Who do you give up?

Why do I have to make the trade? I'm very clearly unwilling to pay exorbitant rental prices.

 

[mas0764]

if we didn't have Trouba, we'd be missing a very unique specimen,

He's not very unique though. What does he do that is unique? He levies some big hits? That is overrated.

and we'd basically be open to another 8 million dollar mistake.

So we should keep him so we don't spend his money even more foolishly? Unconvincing.

This requires a bit more of a detailed look.

Honestly, Trouba gets a lot of schtick around here but he played his heart out, scored 50 points in a season, and was then traded to the New York Rangers at the beginning of a "rebuild/retool" and signed on the dotted line. Would anyone have predicted that we would luck bomb into our D-core the way we did? Can you blame him for taking the contract?

Exactly my point. He scorED 50 points. When he was in a different role in Winnipeg and was on PP1.

Maybe you put him back in that role and he does so again, but he's never getting that role here ever. Fox has it from now till eternity.

Trouba is being deployed by us as a defensive defenseman responsible for babysitting Miller and being physical. Aside from the occasional big hit he's actually relatively mediocre at both of these things.

Trouba's value is that he has some offensive skills but we aren't using him that way. He's miscast, and he's not much better than average as this defensive defenseman we are using to anchor the second pairing.

It's just not on any planet worth the money we are paying him.

Schneider is going to be perfect for this role. While hard to predict exact development trajectory, if he develops like Fox, Lindgren, and Miller all have, he's going to be ready to eat minutes on the second pairing quite soon.

That's not to say Trouba is a net negative. He's a mild positive in this role. But in a Covid-affected hard cap world we cannot afford to keep him once Lafreniere and Miller and Kakko need to be paid. His money needs to be spent elsewhere.

He just hit career highs in Goals (11), Hits (207), Blocks (177), and PIM's (88) as his takeaways diminished a bit. If I described a 28 year old, 6'4, 210 pound, 40 point, hardnose defenseman, who can play 1st/2nd pairing, has put up 50 points (with PP time), without providing a name... I think most would say that, yes he's overpaid but at 8 million, he's hardly "The Problem".

That's the problem, though. He's overpaid at a time when we need that money to re-sign pieces we project to be far more important core pieces (ie, Lafreniere and Kakko to both be top 6 wingers and Miller an eventual first pair caliber defender). Especially for how we deploy him. He's not enough of a shut down defender a la Ryan McDonagh on Tampa to truly anchor a second pair, and Trouba was exposed repeatedly against better competition in the playoffs to this end.

In his first 3 seasons with the Rangers, he's fought 8 times. In 6 seasons he played with the Jets he fought 5 times. His role is different, the team is different, and honestly, the only "issue" I have with him is that he's a luxury of a player to be paying 8 million while putting him on the 2nd pairing (while we play Lindgren with Fox). While that's partially done for chemistry, everyone here knows on the down-low that it gives us a 1A/1B defensive lineup.

You are right that he's a luxury. And the problem is we can't afford it.

You are wrong that it's a 1A/1B. He's not that good.

​

​

Also, stating that Trouba is statistically not a 1st pairing Defenseman is a weird take, and factually/statistically incorrect unless you're hiding some crazy stats... He's in the top 50 of Dmen for all scoring categories and 34th overall in D scoring with double the time SH vs his PP time.

All this on the second pairing with minimized PP time.

He's just not that good defensively. Sorry. He's not a first pair player at actual defending.

 

[EdJovanovski]

He's not very unique though. What does he do that is unique? He levies some big hits? That is overrated.



So we should keep him so we don't spend his money even more foolishly? Unconvincing.



Exactly my point. He scorED 50 points. When he was in a different role in Winnipeg and was on PP1.

Maybe you put him back in that role and he does so again, but he's never getting that role here ever. Fox has it from now till eternity.

Trouba is being deployed by us as a defensive defenseman responsible for babysitting Miller and being physical. Aside from the occasional big hit he's actually relatively mediocre at both of these things.

Trouba's value is that he has some offensive skills but we aren't using him that way. He's miscast, and he's not much better than average as this defensive defenseman we are using to anchor the second pairing.

It's just not on any planet worth the money we are paying him.

Schneider is going to be perfect for this role. While hard to predict exact development trajectory, if he develops like Fox, Lindgren, and Miller all have, he's going to be ready to eat minutes on the second pairing quite soon.

That's not to say Trouba is a net negative. He's a mild positive in this role. But in a Covid-affected hard cap world we cannot afford to keep him once Lafreniere and Miller and Kakko need to be paid. His money needs to be spent elsewhere.



That's the problem, though. He's overpaid at a time when we need that money to re-sign pieces we project to be far more important core pieces (ie, Lafreniere and Kakko to both be top 6 wingers and Miller an eventual first pair caliber defender). Especially for how we deploy him. He's not enough of a shut down defender a la Ryan McDonagh on Tampa to truly anchor a second pair, and Trouba was exposed repeatedly against better competition in the playoffs to this end.


You are right that he's a luxury. And the problem is we can't afford it.

You are wrong that it's a 1A/1B. He's not that good.

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He's just not that good defensively. Sorry. He's not a first pair player at actual defending.

His interviews are pretty unique, sounds like his mouth is full of peanutbutter

 

[Baby Punisher]

Trouba had 39 points in 81 games this season with limited PP time and playing on the "2nd" pairing. I'm sure he would put easily put up 11 more points if he played on the first pairing, and had more power play time.

Why do I have to make the trade? I'm very clearly unwilling to pay exorbitant rental prices.

Then you will never win anything.

 

[duhmetreE]

Hard to disagree with what you are saying. It's unfortunate but he's just making too much money for the role he now fills on the roster. We would be better off with a Tanev or Manson type making almost half the cap hit.

I'd take Savard or Edmundson from Montreal

 

[MrAlmost]

I wonder what the conversation would be if Trouba were left handed and Lindgren a righty.

Anyways, in the KAKKO thread, I just don't see how this isn't going to end up as the Chytil contract. It makes too much sense. 2 x 2.3 per is the perfect amount. I think he has a good year on the right side of Panarin and Trocheck. Trocheck and Kakko will likely make for a good defensive combo too.

 

[NCRanger]

There is no forcing the must-win one now mindset. It is already ingrained in the mindset of Drury, Gallant, Dolan etc. Frankly, if it's not fire everyone. We already saw Dolan clean house at the end of the 2020-21 season because Groton, JD, and Quinn weren't in a must-win one now mentality. You did not hire Gallant to helm a rebuild. You hired Gallant to win a cup over the next 3 to 4 years. The window is NOW. If Kane is available, and he tells Chicago he only wants to come to NY Drury will make that deal happen.

We agree that the window is NOW, but trading for a Kane shortens that window into a MUST win, rather than we have a significant window for the younger guys to grow while being contenders.

I thought the changes were made as a result of Tom Wilson ragdolling Panarin, not necessarily to immediately expect to be a Cup contender.

 

[mas0764]

Trouba had 39 points in 81 games this season with limited PP time and playing on the "2nd" pairing. I'm sure he would put easily put up 11 more points if he played on the first pairing, and had more power play time.

But he's not ever going to get that role here. That's why he's not worth it.

We paid him $8m to be on our first power play and first pair when he signed that contract.

Subsequent events have demoted him from that role, and on the basis of his role (basically we've cast him in a defensive-defenseman second pair role) he is not nearly $8m good.

He's not even $8m good if he was on the first pair putting up those numbers, but at least then the overpay is only a million or two. As we are deploying him, he's not getting the chance to put up the offensive numbers and his defense is not nearly worth what we signed him for. He's an offensive defenseman being paid $8m and now miscast in the wrong role.

Then you will never win anything.

Go look at the deadline additions for, let's say, the last 10 Cup winners. Most of them added only very minor pieces with no big name prospects or first round picks being traded away.

This idea that you have to make a big splash at the deadline is false.

 

[Callafan24]

I for one am happy that our team doesn't get pushed around all over the ice anymore. Jacob Trouba is a huge reason our team plays a bigger, heavier game with confidence.

Fox / Lindgren + Miller / Trouba is an incredible Top 4.

Last offseason we offloaded Buch's $3.25M. This year we let Strome's $4.5M walk too. Next offseason $3.4M of buyouts come off the books.

There will come a time to offload a Kreider, Trouba, Lindgren, Panarin, Goodrow or whoever else. But not for the next two runs. LGR.