Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part IV

[CLW]

Kakko fit in on the top line with Kreider and Zib last night. Laff has gotten countless opportunities in the top 6. Where would you like them to play?

Yes, trade him for a few seconds and a third line RW. Great idea. 27 games is enough for me to come to the conclusion this guy is toast.

Or maybe take a look at the coaching and culture? Which was the entire point with my posts... doh.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Add in two top 10 picks literally fleeing the country and you have a lot of weirdness in a short period of time.

“None of this is the organizations fault”

Just putting this here to save you from reading the other inevitable responses you’ll get.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Or maybe take a look at the coaching and culture? Which was the entire point with my posts... doh.

I don't ever remember hearing anything about the team's culture until Kakko and Laff started to struggle. Can you elaborate?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Add in two top 10 picks literally fleeing the country and you have a lot of weirdness in a short period of time.

Yeah, but Chytil, Fox and Lindgren are doing fine so there's no cause for concern. Or something.

If I cheat on 4 of my 7 girlfriends, I am faithful but that logic

4 top-10 picks, from 4 different cultures and countries, are struggling on the same team. That's concerning.

 

[CLW]

I don't ever remember hearing anything about the team's culture until Kakko and Laff started to struggle. Can you elaborate?

I explained it in my posts which were building on a post I quoted. Just personal observations from the outside.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Yeah, but Chytil, Fox and Lindgren are doing fine so there's no cause for concern. Or something.

If I cheat on 4 of my 7 girlfriends, I am faithful but that logic

4 top-10 picks, from 4 different cultures and countries, are struggling on the same team. That's concerning.

You keep beating the same damn drum in every thread. Anderson was a dud, he wasn't ruined he's just not good. He hasn't played a game for the Kings, who are mediocre at best, in over a month. That's not coaching, that's scouting. Kravtsov didn't want to be in Hartford because people got in his ear and told him he was good enough to make the big club from the get go. Then he pouted, took his hockey sticks and decided to go back to Russia where the coaches aren't mean to him. By all accounts he matured a bit and is back on track, how about we wait till he's played a few games before deciding he's a bust.

Kakko and Laff, two players who would have been drafted by every other NHL team at their respective spots, have been given every opportunity to get their games going this entire season. I'm sorry it's not happening as fast as you'd like but that's life. Do you honestly believe that JD, Gorton, Drury or whoever else would let Quinn "ruin" these kids? Do you for a second believe they all aren't on the same page? And d0 you really think you know more than those guys?

When does the blame fall on the players for not performing yet? How much coddling do you expect these NHL teams to do? Is putting them both on PP1 going to fix all of this? I'd argue that thier leash is longer than just about any other players on the team. Personally, I think the two are going to be just fine, as will Kravtsov. All last year all everyone spoke about was how this team wasn't ready to compete for a Cup, then it was how tough their division was going to be this year, and holy shit, what do you know? The team that wasn't ready to compete, that played in the toughest division in the league, is OH MY GOD, struggling.

 

[Player big P]

Yeah, but Chytil, Fox and Lindgren are doing fine so there's no cause for concern. Or something.

If I cheat on 4 of my 7 girlfriends, I am faithful but that logic

4 top-10 picks, from 4 different cultures and countries, are struggling on the same team. That's concerning.

Having seven girlfriends already and still cheating is greedy man

 

[Off Sides]

You keep beating the same damn drum in every thread. Anderson was a dud, he wasn't ruined he's just not good. He hasn't played a game for the Kings, who are mediocre at best, in over a month. That's not coaching, that's scouting. Kravtsov didn't want to be in Hartford because people got in his ear and told him he was good enough to make the big club from the get go. Then he pouted, took his hockey sticks and decided to go back to Russia where the coaches aren't mean to him. By all accounts he matured a bit and is back on track, how about we wait till he's played a few games before deciding he's a bust.

Kakko and Laff, two players who would have been drafted by every other NHL team at their respective spots, have been given every opportunity to get their games going this entire season. I'm sorry it's not happening as fast as you'd like but that's life. Do you honestly believe that JD, Gorton, Drury or whoever else would let Quinn "ruin" these kids? Do you for a second believe they all aren't on the same page? And d0 you really think you know more than those guys?

When does the blame fall on the players for not performing yet? How much coddling do you expect these NHL teams to do? Is putting them both on PP1 going to fix all of this? I'd argue that thier leash is longer than just about any other players on the team. Personally, I think the two are going to be just fine, as will Kravtsov. All last year all everyone spoke about was how this team wasn't ready to compete for a Cup, then it was how tough their division was going to be this year, and holy shit, what do you know? The team that wasn't ready to compete, that played in the toughest division in the league, is OH MY GOD, struggling.

While I think I agree with most of that, I have to wonder if the Rangers decided just to not sign these prospects asap, and allowed them to marinate wherever they were prior for at least their D+1 season, if it would have been better for their development? What I am trying to say, it would have been difficult for any of these prospects to think they were better than they are if they are not offered a contract right away.

I know usually the top picks are signed, and played in the NHL, yet I'm not so sure that should be the way it is, it seems kind of arbitrary when one can be comparing the NHL readiness of say Crosby, McDavid, etc, at age 18 versus the readiness of a Lias, Kravtsov, Chytil, Kakko, Laff, etc.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

While I think I agree with most of that, I have to wonder if the Rangers decided just to not sign these prospects asap, and allowed them to marinate wherever they were prior for at least their D+1 season, if it would have been better for their development? What I am trying to say, it would have been difficult for any of these prospects to think they were better than they are if they are not offered a contract right away.

I know usually the top picks are signed, and played in the NHL, yet I'm not so sure that should be the way it is, it seems kind of arbitrary when one can be comparing the NHL readiness of say Crosby, McDavid, etc, at age 18 versus the readiness of a Lias, Kravtsov, Chytil, Kakko, Laff, etc.

I think that's a fair question and a totally separate conversation. I honestly don't know what a year in Hartford would have did for either Laff or Kakko. I kind of remember Kravtsov wanting to come here. Same with Anderson. To me, it's more about not every kid is on the same timeline.

 

[Off Sides]

I think that's a fair question and a totally separate conversation. I honestly don't know what a year in Hartford would have did for either Laff or Kakko. I kind of remember Kravtsov wanting to come here. Same with Anderson. To me, it's more about not every kid is on the same timeline.

As far as what it would do for them, perhaps on ice not much, yet it's difficult for me to say exactly what them being on the Rangers did or is doing for them in their rookie years.

As far as being in a lower league, perhaps just maturing from an 18 year old draftee to a 19-20 year old while trying to either get that first NHL contract, or trying to get promoted to the NHL should be a process most prospects should have to endure.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

As far as what it would do for them, perhaps on ice not much, yet it's difficult for me to say exactly what them being on the Rangers did or is doing for them in their rookie years.

As far as being in a lower league, perhaps just maturing from an 18 year old draftee to a 19-20 year old while trying to either get that first NHL contract, or trying to get promoted to the NHL should be a process most prospects should have to endure.

I think with hindsight being 20/20, you're right. I don't know how them spending a year wherever else could have been worse than what we're seeing right now.

 

[Off Sides]

I think with hindsight being 20/20, you're right. I don't know how them spending a year wherever else could have been worse than what we're seeing right now.

To pat myself on the back, I was, or at least think I was saying similar stuff back when I thought Lias and Chytil in their rookie seasons should have been in the AHL. I do not remember saying Kakko last year should have been in the AHL yet I think at least a couple posters suggested it. Laff is a little different coming out of the Q, so that would have been a tougher call to leave him there versus NHL.

 

[will1066]

They would solve some of their issues if they have just some will power to take it to the hole like Goat. They're very passive and perimeter. I wouldn't say all the time, but most of the time.

 

[rdhstlr23]

You keep beating the same damn drum in every thread. Anderson was a dud, he wasn't ruined he's just not good. He hasn't played a game for the Kings, who are mediocre at best, in over a month. That's not coaching, that's scouting. Kravtsov didn't want to be in Hartford because people got in his ear and told him he was good enough to make the big club from the get go. Then he pouted, took his hockey sticks and decided to go back to Russia where the coaches aren't mean to him. By all accounts he matured a bit and is back on track, how about we wait till he's played a few games before deciding he's a bust.

Kakko and Laff, two players who would have been drafted by every other NHL team at their respective spots, have been given every opportunity to get their games going this entire season. I'm sorry it's not happening as fast as you'd like but that's life. Do you honestly believe that JD, Gorton, Drury or whoever else would let Quinn "ruin" these kids? Do you for a second believe they all aren't on the same page? And d0 you really think you know more than those guys?

When does the blame fall on the players for not performing yet? How much coddling do you expect these NHL teams to do? Is putting them both on PP1 going to fix all of this? I'd argue that thier leash is longer than just about any other players on the team. Personally, I think the two are going to be just fine, as will Kravtsov. All last year all everyone spoke about was how this team wasn't ready to compete for a Cup, then it was how tough their division was going to be this year, and holy shit, what do you know? The team that wasn't ready to compete, that played in the toughest division in the league, is OH MY GOD, struggling.

Fair take.

But, I also think it's possible that Kakko simply isn't the guy we believed he would be. It isn't the first time consensus top picks don't work out. It won't be the last.

And it's fair for fans to be worried or concerned about that.

I think we need to give LaFreniere more time (next season) before I'm as concerned with him, as I am Kakko.

The most important thing, though, is getting off the train at the right time...if, one or both of these guys aren't the players we hoped they would be.

They're still incredibly though of assets. It's far too early to hop off the LaFreniere train, IMO. However, when you've got potential options like Eichel or Barkov rumored as available, the evaluation period has to hasten. That's why the Kakko production (lack of) is of so much interest to me.

If you have another year of Kakko struggling to get 50 points in 2021-2022 season, what does that do for his value? Rangers need to have a plan. They bet on Georgiev, Strome, and DeAngelo...that doesn't seem to be working. They got off the Anderson train too later, after everything became public. Gotta have a better idea here.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

To pat myself on the back, I was, or at least think I was saying similar stuff back when I thought Lias and Chytil in their rookie seasons should have been in the AHL. I do not remember saying Kakko last year should have been in the AHL yet I think at least a couple posters suggested it. Laff is a little different coming out of the Q, so that would have been a tougher call to leave him there versus NHL.

You had more foresight than I did, for sure. Of course, if they did go that route people would be complaining about how they should be up here with the Rangers and they were getting ruined wherever it was they were playing.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Fair take.

But, I also think it's possible that Kakko simply isn't the guy we believed he would be. It isn't the first time consensus top picks don't work out. It won't be the last.

And it's fair for fans to be worried or concerned about that.

I think we need to give LaFreniere more time (next season) before I'm as concerned with him, as I am Kakko.

The most important thing, though, is getting off the train at the right time...if, one or both of these guys aren't the players we hoped they would be.

They're still incredibly though of assets. It's far too early to hop off the LaFreniere train, IMO. However, when you've got potential options like Eichel or Barkov rumored as available, the evaluation period has to hasten. That's why the Kakko production (lack of) is of so much interest to me.

If you have another year of Kakko struggling to get 50 points in 2021-2022 season, what does that do for his value? Rangers need to have a plan. They bet on Georgiev, Strome, and DeAngelo...that doesn't seem to be working. They got off the Anderson train too later, after everything became public. Gotta have a better idea here.

I get people are concerned about their progress but this constant bitching about how the organization is ruining them, Gorton is clueless, they need to be on PP1, they shouldn't worry about defense, the coach sucks, blah, blah, blah, gets tiring.

There's no perspective here. Everything isn't always black and white. I wholeheartedly agree with you about Kakko though, if he's not producing next season I'm pushing the panic button. As far as Laff, anyone calling him a bust after 27 games is an idiot. To me, we need more patience not less.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think the problem with Kakko and Lafrenierre is their names. If they had easier names like Crosby, McDavid or Bossy they would score a lot more.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

since this coach will never get fired, we'll need to experiment. Send Kakko and Laf down to Hartford. If they suck there we'll know they're busts 4 sure.

 

[Scott r]

If you don't score in first or second year..quite often its not gonna ever work. This is why I dont care about prospects. Back in day 1984 I spoke to HC of Peterborough ohl...said Terry carkner is a beast...he was horrid for nyr. The hc ended up being an asst coach in 94 when nyr won cup.. im sick of the rave about drafted players. 17 games 2 goals..2 assisst..go back to Europe ir trade him.

 

[Scott r]

since this coach will never get fired, we'll need to experiment. Send Kakko and Laf down to Hartford. If they suck there we'll know they're busts 4 sure.

I dont think you can send them to minors....you have a 1st overall...sending him to minors is gonna be worse. Seeing laf so shaky in ot.....was eye opening bad. I dont think this ends well.

 

[Scott r]

I think the problem with Kakko and Lafrenierre is their names. If they had easier names like Crosby, McDavid or Bossy they would score a lot more.

Lol....I dont believe in jinxes...but they nyr have it

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

since this coach will never get fired, we'll need to experiment. Send Kakko and Laf down to Hartford. If they suck there we'll know they're busts 4 sure.

Lafreniere cannot be sent to Hartford. He'd have to go back to Rimouski

 

[molotce]

He is cursed at this point, 9-0 beating and hit a post... but nothing

 

[CLW]

He is cursed at this point, 9-0 beating and hit a post... but nothing

He set up Laf for the Chytil (Hajek,Laf) goal... just getting no breaks at all atm.

 

[Scott r]

I think that's a fair question and a totally separate conversation. I honestly don't know what a year in Hartford would have did for either Laff or Kakko. I kind of remember Kravtsov wanting to come here. Same with Anderson. To me, it's more about not every kid is on the same timeline.

Most who r in minors don't excel. Key word..most. the old work on your game is prob bs. Ken gernander..kontos...yesnwork on the game...bs. the issue is you have to get better and excel here....not minors. If laff and kakko were not gonna be impact..then trade down. The nyr like other teams, raved to no end about these guys........