Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part IV

[LOFIN]

I know they are strong beast, but if your skating looks like slow motion it will show in my post and on ice product.

This is a skating league, if you want to be a top tier player, a guy to build around you need to know how to skate, no matter if you are a physical beast.

Laine, Kakko were drafted to be franchise guys.

It's an issue of them not getting a skating coach early. I mean, it should be obvious you need to skate as well. That's on the player.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Developing is developing. Have you seen Buchnevich develop? How about Chytil? Heck, want to lump in what Strome is now doing for 3 seasons? If you cannot see the growth in Kakko's game, then you are simply being intellectually dishonest. Or simply do not bother watching games but come on the board to read some narratives.

I made multiple posts today, and earlier in this thread, that I’ve been really happy with Kakko’s development in certain aspects this year. You’ve just chosen to ignore them.

 

[CLW]

The brand of hockey that Kakko was brought up to play would have given him a wonderful career. In Liga.

Lots of teams in the NHL play better possession hockey than the NYR.

 

[Fitzy]

Lots of teams in the NHL play better possession hockey than the NYR.

I just think he needs to be on a line with players who are better in transition than he is. Kreider as a linemate is a step in the right direction, Chytil would be even better.

Kakko shouldn't be the primary player carrying the puck through the neutral zone.

 

[True Blue]

I made multiple posts today, and earlier in this thread, that I’ve been really happy with Kakko’s development in certain aspects this year. You’ve just chosen to ignore them.

Did you also make multiple posts noting the development of the other forwards?

 

[True Blue]

Lots of teams in the NHL play better possession hockey than the NYR.

All other teams are not as young and inexperienced and have some of their top players either not playing well or actually not playing.

 

[CLW]

All other teams are not as young and inexperienced and have some of their top players either not playing well or actually not playing.

Except it's not an issue of young and inexperienced, it's an issue of tactics and systems.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Right, in fact they were both superb prospects even relative to their draft position. Kakko was literally torching NHL stars at the World Championships just before he got drafted.

The problem is the current state of this franchise, which has been a mess for the past two seasons.

This organization has no proven track-record when it comes to developing players in their D+1 and D+2 seasons.

7 Rangers since 1945 have played more than 10 games in their D+1 season
Only 24 in their D+2 season in that same span.

This organization just does not have the experience, and it shows. I am convinced that Farabee, Pastrnak, Thomas or Aho would not have been the players they are today if they played on the Rangers. We always talk about how we are bad at drafting. What if we aren't? What if we are just historically bad at developing players? And yes, the lack of high picks doesn't help but it's not like we never drafted high. It just feels like this org is always trying to re-invent the wheel with everything.

Or maybe it's just a coincidence that their best prospects have come through Europe or the NCAA developing 2, 3 or sometimes 4 years. I think in the end, Kakko and Lafrenière will be fine. They are too talented to mess up, right?

 

[True Blue]

Except it's not an issue of young and inexperienced, it's an issue of tactics and systems.

Add in what have you. But youth and inexperience plays in. You should take a look at the records of teams for a few years after they got the 1OA pick. Far from world beaters

 

[Synergy27]

Developing is developing. Have you seen Buchnevich develop? How about Chytil? Heck, want to lump in what Strome is now doing for 3 seasons? If you cannot see the growth in Kakko's game, then you are simply being intellectually dishonest. Or simply do not bother watching games but come on the board to read some narratives.

I hesitate to get into this with you again, but expectations for top 2 draft picks are simply different than those of late first rounders or thirds like Buch. They by definition should have less developing to do. If Kakko develops and produces on a similar timeline as Buchnevich that is a failure, bottom line.

 

[Synergy27]

Add in what have you. But youth and inexperience plays in. You should take a look at the records of teams for a few years after they got the 1OA pick. Far from world beaters

This roster looks nothing like historical post 1OA rosters. That’s a new reality enabled by the lottery. The Rangers did not, and still don’t, have a roster that’s similar to most teams that pick 1OA.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I think his big issue is acceleration. Once he gets going, his skating is fine; in fact his edge work is excellent. As a power forward type who will rely on winning puck battles, using his big body to protect the puck and create space, his body needs to fill out and he needs to completely process the speed of the NHL game. It is coming. We really need to stay patient with him as his 200 foot game is progressing. I also think Quinn has him scared to turn the puck over and he is not taking ANY chances at the offensive blue line which takes potential rush chances and turns them into dump and chase.

He’s had good scoring chances that have been saved because his shot wasn’t great. It’s not absolutely terrible, but it’s not great and it’s keeping him from reaching another level. I don’t know how much a player’s shot can improve. But maybe a little more oommph a little quicker can allow him to score some more goals. I’m less concerned about his skating than his shot.

 

[Synergy27]

This organization has no proven track-record when it comes to developing players in their D+1 and D+2 seasons.

7 Rangers since 1945 have played more than 10 games in their D+1 season
Only 24 in their D+2 season in that same span.

This organization just does not have the experience, and it shows. I am convinced that Farabee, Pastrnak, Thomas or Aho would not have been the players they are today if they played on the Rangers. We always talk about how we are bad at drafting. What if we aren't? What if we are just historically bad at developing players? And yes, the lack of high picks doesn't help but it's not like we never drafted high. It just feels like this org is always trying to re-invent the wheel with everything.

Or maybe it's just a coincidence that their best prospects have come through Europe or the NCAA developing 2, 3 or sometimes 4 years. I think in the end, Kakko and Lafrenière will be fine. They are too talented to mess up, right?

This is what I think the truth is, but the question then becomes, how does that persist as regimes change over the course of nearly a century?

 

[MysticLeviathan]

they keep trying to turn our skilled guys into grinders and it’s pissing me off. let them be skill guys. let them do their thing.

 

[haveandare]

The every bit as good was reference to his quality as a prospect prior to the NHL. He also looked great when he first joined the team. He was oozing confidence all over the ice. I don’t think he’s a PPG player in his rookie year in another system, but the discrepancy in points between him and Laine is far smaller.

You don’t need to be “in the know” to see that Kakko was not put in a position to succeed in his rookie year. A coach can simultaneously help a player work out his flaws while putting him in a favorable environment. He failed at the latter. Claiming that Quinn is great at his job and knows exactly what he’s doing is just as naive as saying Kakko’s struggles can be placed on his summer workout routine. He’s handled our forward prospects like dog shit.

I really can’t imagine the mental gymnastics you had to go through to defend the Rangers in the Kravstov and Andersson situations. They’re not disasters, like what we’ve seen this year with DeAngelo and Panarin, but they were crap situations that the organization handled poorly. Both guys basically came out and said they weren’t put in a position to succeed.

We put Quinn, Gorton and JD on these pedestals where they seemingly can do no wrong, to the extent that we had posters insinuating JD was negotiating with the Russian government to defend Panarin. They’re regular guys and are plenty capable of doing a poor job. I don’t need to be in the organization to identify these flaws.

Also, I’m not implying that Quinn hasn’t done some good with Kakko. The two-way game and the board work have come a long way. But I think there was too much emphasis on these factors, to the point where they basically forgot to just let Kakko go out there and figure it out himself.

I don’t recall him “oozing confidence all over the ice” at any point last year. He looked pretty rough and out of nhl shape most if not all of the year.

Never said Quinn is great and knows exactly what he’s doing, there’s an ocean of reality between that and handling prospects as poorly as you’re claiming.

It’s more mental gymnastics to defend Lias. He thought he earned more than he did. He had mental health issues he openly talked about. He’s in another org with a family member now and still not good. His issues are his own.

Kravstov went to develop in his home country rather than the AHL. That’s not a situations where anyone has to be defended, it’s a common move for young Russian players who aren’t quite ready yet.

I’ve never said or even implied the org can do no wrong - I’d argue you’re making hyperbolic arguments that they can do nearly no right and that things are their fault which simply aren’t

 

[pld459666]

I hesitate to get into this with you again, but expectations for top 2 draft picks are simply different than those of late first rounders or thirds like Buch. They by definition should have less developing to do. If Kakko develops and produces on a similar timeline as Buchnevich that is a failure, bottom line.

Not necessarily a failure, but certainly not what was expected.

I am not happy with his numbers, but he is playing aa more rounded game.

I think there is legit reason to be concerned, but I also think it's fair to acknowledge that he is aa better player today than he was last year and that's part of what we want to see. Year over Year improvement.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

This organization has no proven track-record when it comes to developing players in their D+1 and D+2 seasons.

7 Rangers since 1945 have played more than 10 games in their D+1 season
Only 24 in their D+2 season in that same span.

This organization just does not have the experience, and it shows. I am convinced that Farabee, Pastrnak, Thomas or Aho would not have been the players they are today if they played on the Rangers. We always talk about how we are bad at drafting. What if we aren't? What if we are just historically bad at developing players? And yes, the lack of high picks doesn't help but it's not like we never drafted high. It just feels like this org is always trying to re-invent the wheel with everything.

Or maybe it's just a coincidence that their best prospects have come through Europe or the NCAA developing 2, 3 or sometimes 4 years. I think in the end, Kakko and Lafrenière will be fine. They are too talented to mess up, right?

They’ll be fine. Kakko has played some good hockey this year.

But I think fans being upset with their production to date is totally justified because it wouldn’t be the case on another team.

 

[pld459666]

they keep trying to turn our skilled guys into grinders and it’s pissing me off. let them be skill guys. let them do their thing.

Agree 1000%

I would rather they get comfortable being the offensive players they were drafted to be, and learn to be responsible later.

too much pressure to be a two-way player when all they (KK and AL) have done to this point is be offensive catalysts. Let them continue THAT path and then coach them on the defensive side of the puck.

I can't imagine they are enjoying the game right now.

 

[CLW]

Add in what have you. But youth and inexperience plays in. You should take a look at the records of teams for a few years after they got the 1OA pick. Far from world beaters

Again that observation has nothing to do with the point I made.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

KK defensive specialist

 

[MysticLeviathan]

KK defensive specialist

you don’t draft a player #2 overall to be a defensive specialist.

 

[haveandare]

This organization has no proven track-record when it comes to developing players in their D+1 and D+2 seasons.

7 Rangers since 1945 have played more than 10 games in their D+1 season
Only 24 in their D+2 season in that same span.

This organization just does not have the experience, and it shows. I am convinced that Farabee, Pastrnak, Thomas or Aho would not have been the players they are today if they played on the Rangers. We always talk about how we are bad at drafting. What if we aren't? What if we are just historically bad at developing players? And yes, the lack of high picks doesn't help but it's not like we never drafted high. It just feels like this org is always trying to re-invent the wheel with everything.

Or maybe it's just a coincidence that their best prospects have come through Europe or the NCAA developing 2, 3 or sometimes 4 years. I think in the end, Kakko and Lafrenière will be fine. They are too talented to mess up, right?

IMO it’s legit magical thinking to think the logo or organization name has anything to do with ability to develop prospects. Maybe some management group or another isn’t good at something but the organization going back decades is pure supersition

 

[aufheben]

Clueless college coach all of the sudden as a rigid NHL system?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

IMO it’s legit magical thinking to think the logo or organization name has anything to do with ability to develop prospects. Maybe some management group or another isn’t good at something but the organization going back decades is pure supersition

Out of all teams, one of them has to be the worst at it.

 

[haveandare]

Clueless college coach all of the sudden as a rigid NHL system?

Yeah I’ve noticed this too. He has no system but also has a rigid system that’s stifling skilled kids except for when it doesn’t. Chytil scored a forsberg goal and gets fed minutes. Laf forces passes between four defenders for beautiful assists and gets first line minutes.

Maybe the kids don’t want to, and shouldn’t, be trying to flash skill unless there’s a reasonable chance it’ll pay off?