Value of: Jvr

[Halla]

You nailed it. He is worth right in between what those 2 groups think.

His D isn't just a little weak. It is almost nonexistent. He is at his peak at 55-60 pts if he plays a full season.

He could raise his value quite a bit if he would make even a little effort to play defensively.

Late 1st + a decent B prospect sounds about right to me. Maybe a #4 D man if you get lucky.

late 1st and B prospect gets a dial tone.
why would the leafs consider that? both pieces would have a tough time cracking our top 10 prospects right now.

i think a #1LW that can put up 30/30 with a sweet contract is worth more than a #4 dman that we cant protect pre expansion draft, but thats just me

 

[Halla]

Ok so...

Juulsen
2017 1st
De la Rose
DD

For

JVR

not a bad offer but the leafs dont max out their contracts by doing a 3 for 1. De la Rose needs to be changed to a 2nd, especially if we are taking DD

 

[Caesium]

I dont get why the leafs would want to trade him at all given his size, skill, age and contract.

His contract is exactly the reason to trade him. The Leafs are rebuilding and aren't ready to fight for a playoff spot before he reaches UFA. Who knows what kind of dollars and term he'll want when he signs his new contract at 29 years old? His contract being cheap right now offers the Leafs no benefits, but it's worth a lot to teams that need high value per dollar spent, and that means a better return in a trade. JVR could walk for nothing when his contract is up, which is the worst case scenario for a rebuilding team.

 

[LeafsNation149]

Only way Leafs trade JVR is if they get a stud dman in return which isn't happening so there is no trade.

Leafs left side is pretty brutal minus JVR

 

[Halla]

His contract is exactly the reason to trade him. The Leafs are rebuilding and aren't ready to fight for a playoff spot before he reaches UFA. Who knows what kind of dollars and term he'll want when he signs his new contract at 29 years old? His contract being cheap right now offers the Leafs no benefits, but it's worth a lot to teams that need high value per dollar spent, and that means a better return in a trade. JVR could walk for nothing when his contract is up, which is the worst case scenario for a rebuilding team.

you think the leafs wouldnt move him at the deadline? 0% chance that happens

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

Ok so...

Juulsen
2017 1st
De la Rose
DD

For

JVR

That's actually... not too bad. Would the 1st be lottery protected? Depends on the time of the season I suppose, I don't see mtl doing it not lottery protected at the start of the season, tdl....yeah, I'd do it. Juulson is someone I kind of envy mtl having.

 

[mikeyp24]

Actual value would be a 1st 20th or later and a B prospect or a top 4 D and a 2nd or 3rd depending on who it is. Obviously a fringe 2-3D will be worth more so it would be the 3rd and a closer to 4 would be a 2nd.

Contract up in 2 years and hasn't been as good as he used to be. People calling him 30-30 is in his past. 25-25 more realistic. The only reason his value is high right now is price for production.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Actual value would be a 1st 20th or later and a B prospect or a top 4 D and a 2nd or 3rd depending on who it is. Obviously a fringe 2-3D will be worth more so it would be the 3rd and a closer to 4 would be a 2nd.

Contract up in 2 years and hasn't been as good as he used to be. People calling him 30-30 is in his past. 25-25 more realistic. The only reason his value is high right now is price for production.

30-30 is what he's been pacing for the last three years, or thereabout.

The Ryan comparable is a good one, but I can see it being a bit less as well.

 

[mikeyp24]

^pacing is different then actual production though because 1 means you have to play at the exact pace you were all year. Everyone has hot and cold streaks. I used to be a big JVR fan but he hasn't played as well the past 2 or 3 years. I was beyond disappointed in him with the WC stuff this summer.

 

[LV*]

Clarke MacArthur (LTIR not insured), Logan Brown/Colin White, Curtis Lazar, pick

If Mac is not able to return...

Done.

To TOR:
MacArthur
Brown/White you pick
Lazar
2nd

To OTT:
JVR
Holland

 

[mikeyp24]

^^^ 2 1sts and a 2nd for jvr?? That's rediculous. JVR couldn't get Logan brown by himself let alone adding Lazer and a 2nd.

 

[loyaltotheend]

^^^ 2 1sts and a 2nd for jvr?? That's rediculous. JVR couldn't get Logan brown by himself let alone adding Lazer and a 2nd.

It's not two 1st's, they've been used. Lazar might become a 3rd liner, which is not garbage, but nothing to brag about. Logan Brown is a maybe to even be an nhl player, no matter how much hype hf puts on prospects.
So yeah, those guys, a 2nd rounder, and a huge cap dump from a team that can't afford to pay someone NOT to play is pretty reasonable price.

Someone might disagree with that, but your statement that a 1LW with size, speed, and a great contract wouldn't return a prospect like brown?? Give me a break.
Also I just noticed the post you are pointing too includes Holland going back. And although he is also nothing to brag about, he can certainly replace Lazar on the 4th line...

 

[Halla]

30-30 is what he's been pacing for the last three years, or thereabout.

The Ryan comparable is a good one, but I can see it being a bit less as well.

29/29/58 avg as a leaf, but i get a kick out of those that call him a 20-25g player.

If JVR plays a full season he will be about a 30/30 guy again
cue the sens fans saying he isnt worth lazar and a 1st

 

[Liferleafer]

Ok so...

Juulsen
2017 1st
De la Rose
DD

For

JVR

Easy pass. If....and that's a big if JVR is dealt, it will ve for a youngish top 4 D, preferably right hand. And DD? Seriously? Bozak/Kadri/Mathews/ Nylander/Holland/Komarov/Laich are all centers.....DD?

Here's the easy answer....a deal with Fowler being the main piece coming back.

 

[Trapper]

^^^ 2 1sts and a 2nd for jvr?? That's rediculous. JVR couldn't get Logan brown by himself let alone adding Lazer and a 2nd.

This board can argue all day what they think JVR is worth. It doesn't matter.
Some will be right, some with greatly overvalue and some will need to destroy any value.

At the end of the day, if the Leafs are trading JVR, they should be looking for a RHD for the top 4. That's it.

 

[4thline]

Value is pretty established-
1st + B+ prospect (late 1st or 2nd rounder type, progressing well but not crazy- Dano/ Kapanen type) as a deadline deal with expiring contract. Want an extra 1.6 seasons + playoffs add from there to make it worthwhile.

 

[YennoItFlames]

Wotherspoon + Wideman + 2nd for Jvr

 

[4thline]

Wotherspoon + Wideman + 2nd for Jvr

Always smart to come in low, Poirier+Hickey+1st would be what you're looking at as a package. Maybe even Shink instead of Poirier or Kylington instead of Hickey.

 

[Caesium]

you think the leafs wouldnt move him at the deadline? 0% chance that happens

They would, but the return is lower for a rental compared to what a team would give for two full seasons of him.

 

[YennoItFlames]

Always smart to come in low, Poirier+Hickey+1st would be what you're looking at as a package. Maybe even Shink instead of Poirier or Kylington instead of Hickey.

Has to be some cap going back, and Wideman can eat minutes and score points, he always seems to have a good year then bad then good, etc... so I wouldn't fought him hitting 40 points if he was given the time, he's a great leader in the home, could help all the young guns in Tor, Rhd, and the leafs have an abundance of forwards, so I'll re offer,
Wideman + Hickey + 2nd(conditional 1st if Wideman gets under 30 points)(conditional 3rd if Wideman reaches 50 points) For Jvr

 

[Boud]

^^^ 2 1sts and a 2nd for jvr?? That's rediculous. JVR couldn't get Logan brown by himself let alone adding Lazer and a 2nd.

Ever try to dump a 20 Millions debt to your neighbor?

I noted in the offer that this was only IF MacArthur can't return which isn't that unlikely after missing a full year and having 4 concussions in 2 years.

MarcArthurs contract is NOT insured, which means Ottawa will not only have to pay him 4.6M a year even if he doesn't play, but it also means that they can't use that money to find a replacement.

Ottawa is a team that's trying to win now. Brown/White are great prospects, but at some point you need to give to get, and JVR makes us a much better team. Lazar is expandable in Ottawa since we have guys like Paul, Chlapik and others coming up (Paul is ready).

So basically this comes to sending Logan Brown or Colin White and a 20M dollar debt in return for a 60 point player.

It hurts to lose a player like Brown or White because of the team not insuring a player with a large contract, but it would hurt a lot more to stay a bubble team and not take advantage of Turris making 3.5, Brassard making 3, Karlsson making 6.5, Stone making 3.5.

Besides that.. Try to find a team thatd be able to take on MacArthurs contract... Aint many teams able to do that and even less willing to.

 

[Halla]

Wotherspoon + Wideman + 2nd for Jvr

this probably gets the flames michalek

 

[Halla]

Has to be some cap going back, and Wideman can eat minutes and score points, he always seems to have a good year then bad then good, etc... so I wouldn't fought him hitting 40 points if he was given the time, he's a great leader in the home, could help all the young guns in Tor, Rhd, and the leafs have an abundance of forwards, so I'll re offer,
Wideman + Hickey + 2nd(conditional 1st if Wideman gets under 30 points)(conditional 3rd if Wideman reaches 50 points) For Jvr

Wideman is a cap dump. his value is negative after his terrible season, bloated contract, and suspension for hitting a ref.

a B prospect, 2nd and cap dump isnt even close.
leafs would need the 2nd just to take wideman, so that leaves JVR for hickey? dialtone...

 

[Boud]

Done.

To TOR:
MacArthur
Brown/White you pick
Lazar
2nd

To OTT:
JVR
Holland

I'd do this trade if it was confirmed that Mac is not coming back. I think it's a fair deal in the event that we need to pay Mac sitting.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Good value comparison: Bobby Ryan in 2013

Ryan was 27, JVR is 27 now
Ryan had 2 years to UFA when he was traded, JVR has 2 year to UFA right now
Ryan is a big-bodied RW, JVR is a big-bodied LW
Ryan had a very similar PPG and GPG in 2012/13 as JVR in 2015/16
Ryan had a history of scoring 30 goals, JVR has had a pace of around 30 goals on a worse team with worse linemates
Ryan was a rather one-dimensional guy, JVR is a rather one-dimensional guy

If JVR was to be traded, I think he'd probably return a good young forward (eg. Silfverberg), good prospect (eg. Noesen) and a 1st round pick, just like Ryan. Although maybe GMs around the league are aware what a bad trade that was for the Sens and are unwilling to follow in their footsteps.

I don't know why Leafs fans are so eager to throw him around in trade proposals. Their forward group and all their forward prospects are small, JVR looks like he fills a big niche as a big power winger. Probably will be a great complement to Matthews/Nylander as well. Unless he's not willing to re-sign in Toronto long-term, don't understand why the Leafs would trade him.

Can a mod edit OP to this and lock it up?