Jvr $ (underated or overrated)

[Mess]

JVR is a key component of Marner's line.

He's big, stands in front of the net and has great hands in close. He deserves his 6-7 mil for the next 4 years. When his contract is up, we then have to start paying the kids.

I see no reason to move him

Marner is the key component of that line and his play is inflating JVR value.

Buy low and sell high and that makes JVR at perhaps its highest value that it has ever been.

That is great for trading and bad for re-signing.

Investing $7 mil in JVR when you will soon need to re-sign Matthews, Marner and Nylander etc would be a tight cap situation.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner is the key component of that line and his play is inflating JVR value.

Buy low and sell high and that makes JVR at perhaps its highest value that it has ever been.

That is great for trading and bad for re-signing.

Investing $7 mil in JVR when you will soon need to re-sign Matthews, Marner and Nylander etc would be a tight cap situation.

Well done, sums it up nicely IMO.

 

[Once]

The guy drives me nuts. Great game one day then disappears for 5, yet he'll still pop in 25+ goals. His defensive game is putrid & although big he is very passive. The number of games he disappears for while looking to go to UFA doesn't give me much confidence of what he'll do when he's signed long term.

Trade him to a cup contender for as high picks as we can get & keep building through the youth.

Spot on.... spot on.

 

[namttebih]

Marner is the key component of that line and his play is inflating JVR value.

Buy low and sell high and that makes JVR at perhaps its highest value that it has ever been.

That is great for trading and bad for re-signing.

Investing $7 mil in JVR when you will soon need to re-sign Matthews, Marner and Nylander etc would be a tight cap situation.

I don't disagree with anything that you've said here except for the fact that I'm not sure if his value is any higher than it has been in the past. He is scoring at his normal pace with a few extra assists. If anything I think that his value would be lower since he is on an expiring contract instead of a multi year sweetheart.

But I digress...I'm looking for the number that you would be ok with if he was resigned.

 

[Ulysses31]

JVR's value is in his current rate of production vs his current contract. Far too great of an asset to let walk for nothing.

Well leafs wouldnt be getting nothing IMO if you count a better chance of winning during the next two years

 

[Kingstonian84*]

JVR is not part of this team long term.

1.) He is too old for this team long term;
2.) As many have said he will be looking for a big pay day and a long term deal, we won't have the cap space with Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Zaitsev likely getting locked up long term;
3.) You don't spend the kind of money JVR will be expecting on complimentry players, if the Burke and Nonis era taught us anything its this. Also look at the Blackhawks and how they let pieces who are not essential get traded away out of necessity;

I have suggested a trade for Jenner from CLB with Carlsson as an add. While I think we are a good team on the rise but not ready for a real SC run. We need to be patient and continue to build this team.

1. JVR is 27, he's in his prime and still has 5 plus good to great years left. Andersen is the same age, Kadri is a year younger, so by your logic they shouldn't be "part of the long term plans" either.

2. This is a valid point, and probably the biggest factor to consider in terms of whether or not to sign him or not. Personally, I feel its more important to lock up the core, and fill in cheap secondary pieces, JVR is NOT a core player, and I have issues with paying a one dimensional inconsistent player north of 5.5 million

3. Haha we also agree on point #3.

 

[one77]

JVR is a perfect scenario for us at the moment. His value is probably at it's highest and we are in need of a promising young dman, and we have an abundance of quality young forwards.

Trading him makes 10x more sense than re-signing him, although I would love to have a JVR on this team for the next 10 years.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

JVR is a perfect scenario for us at the moment. His value is probably at it's highest and we are in need of a promising young dman, and we have an abundance of quality young forwards.

Trading him makes 10x more sense than re-signing him, although I would love to have a JVR on this team for the next 10 years.

Oye.... you do realize JVR doesn't fetch a promising young blueliner right? Heck even Kessel didn't net that return and he was far more skilled AND was locked into a longer contract. Sorry, but wingers typical DONT fetch a top 4D, espically a "young and promising one", his value is more in the range of a 1st rounder/b level pick/cap dump type return.

 

[Gary Nylund]

1. JVR is 27, he's in his prime and still has 5 plus good to great years left. Andersen is the same age, Kadri is a year younger, so by your logic they shouldn't be "part of the long term plans" either.

2. This is a valid point, and probably the biggest factor to consider in terms of whether or not to sign him or not. Personally, I feel its more important to lock up the core, and fill in cheap secondary pieces, JVR is NOT a core player, and I have issues with paying a one dimensional inconsistent player north of 5.5 million

3. Haha we also agree on point #3.

If you're going to compare Kadri and JVR by age, you should compare their age at the time they sign their contracts.

 

[Mess]

I don't disagree with anything that you've said here except for the fact that I'm not sure if his value is any higher than it has been in the past. He is scoring at his normal pace with a few extra assists. If anything I think that his value would be lower since he is on an expiring contract instead of a multi year sweetheart.

But I digress...I'm looking for the number that you would be ok with if he was resigned.

There is no number that I would re-sign him at.

The reason for that is that he will be a pending UFA and as such its not what the Leafs would be willing but what the market would dictate his value is.

If as a UFA teams would be willing to give him $7 mil X 7 years then Leafs aren't likely to get him for much less than that particularly not less term. They might even have to go the full 8 years to keep him. 28 year old JVR X 7/8 years = locked up until 35/36 years old.. No thanks !!!

I'm hoping Lou Lam can parlay JVR in trade for a top 4 Dman capable of playing 20 minutes a night and play in all situations ES and special teams and < 26 years of age.

 

[Stand Witness]

Starting to wonder who will be more valuable by the end of the season, Brown or JVR.

Brown is really starting to go now with Matthews and he is pretty much the model player when it comes to work ethic. He is probably the player you tell every kid to be. Only 4 goals behind JVR at this point too.

In fact, if my math skills are right (I hate counting back seasons to age), I believe JVR and Brown are scoring at a similar rate in their 22/23 season.

Not saying Brown is the better player but does he become more valuable if JVR has a 6M contract?

 

[one77]

Oye.... you do realize JVR doesn't fetch a promising young blueliner right? Heck even Kessel didn't net that return and he was far more skilled AND was locked into a longer contract. Sorry, but wingers typical DONT fetch a top 4D, espically a "young and promising one", his value is more in the range of a 1st rounder/b level pick/cap dump type return.

For a team like Anaheim that has an ABUNDANCE of young dmen that they might lose for nothing during the expansion draft, and a team that needs some help on the wing... yes JVR could fetch a young promising dman.

 

[one77]

Starting to wonder who will be more valuable by the end of the season, Brown or JVR.

Brown is really starting to go now with Matthews and he is pretty much the model player when it comes to work ethic. He is probably the player you tell every kid to be. Only 4 goals behind JVR at this point too.

In fact, if my math skills are right (I hate counting back seasons to age), I believe JVR and Brown are scoring at a similar rate in their 22/23 season.

Not saying Brown is the better player but does he become more valuable if JVR has a 6M contract?

I keep Brown over JVR 10 out of 10 times

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

no way is jvr getting 7 mil, put down the bottle, hes speculated to get high 5's or low 6's.

 

[Stand Witness]

I keep Brown over JVR 10 out of 10 times

Agreed.

Day by day I am starting to think JVR will be moved in season and that is partly because his contract is very favourable. In fact I would probably retain half his salary for the sake that the contender will be only responsible for slightly over 2.1M per season which is ridiculously good value for a team close to the limit. We won't need the cap space next season and it actually helps keep us closer to the floor without needing to dress players.

I'd imagine the bidding war for JVR at 1.5 seasons at 2.1M will return us a very good return.

 

[ShaneFalco]

There's a thread about this every month or so.
JVR will be 29 when his deal is up looking for big money on a long-term deal. Don't kid yourselves about home town discounts or wanting to be here so taking less term.

The time to sell high on him is now, or soon.

 

[Mess]

no way is jvr getting 7 mil, put down the bottle, hes speculated to get high 5's or low 6's.

30 goal scorer 70 point player getting < low $6 mil on the open market that is 28 years old?

Jakub Vorachek a player comparable to JVR in age and offense received a 8 year $66 mil deal with an AAV or $8.25 mil per and is in the 1st year of that deal to re-sign in Philly.

 

[pspot]

Saad got an avv of 6
Hoffman got 5.2

JVR is getting 6+

at that price i wouldnt want him as part of the group going forward

to much for a complimentary player. a good one yes but to inconsistent and doesn't do enough away from the puck to risk causing issues in a few years when they're current prospects are hitting next contracts

 

[Mess]

I keep Brown over JVR 10 out of 10 times

Brown is already on the team..

Dealing JVR would likely be with the intent of giving a Marlie like Kapanen and NHL roster spot in the top 6 eventually.

Keep in mind Kapanen is the main Kessel return, so there is added incentive to make room for him among the management team to show they got some real value from that trade.

 

[Menzinger]

Saad got an avv of 6
Hoffman got 5.2

JVR is getting 6+

at that price i wouldnt want him as part of the group going forward

to much for a complimentary player. a good one yes but to inconsistent and doesn't do enough away from the puck to risk causing issues in a few years when they're current prospects are hitting next contracts

I think he gets 6.5-7.5 over 6-7 years. Which is just a bit much for my liking.

 

[GrizzLeaf]

Have that many players ever really done the discount thing?

I know UFA's will sometimes turn down more money from one team to either stay or go to a more attractive team. But they usually get a contract that's close to or more than what people expect.

Only way JVR gives a discount is if he gets great term and believes that Toronto has a chance to compete for the cup before his term is up. Even then, his desire for a cup has to be greater than his desire to make as much coin as possible.

 

[Mess]

Saad got an avv of 6
Hoffman got 5.2

JVR is getting 6+

at that price i wouldnt want him as part of the group going forward

to much for a complimentary player. a good one yes but to inconsistent and doesn't do enough away from the puck to risk causing issues in a few years when they're current prospects are hitting next contracts

Bobby Ryan got 7 X $7.25 mil AAV recently and JVR is a much more consistent potential 30 goal scorer.

So his agent is going to have enough fuel to get him a significant deal.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

For a team like Anaheim that has an ABUNDANCE of young dmen that they might lose for nothing during the expansion draft, and a team that needs some help on the wing... yes JVR could fetch a young promising dman.

Anahiem is also a budget team who is right up against the cap, although I'm not sure of their numbers next year. JVR makes 4.2 million, while he would give 25-30 goals, can they afford him?

 

[Stand Witness]

Anahiem is also a budget team who is right up against the cap, although I'm not sure of their numbers next year. JVR makes 4.2 million, while he would give 25-30 goals, can they afford him?

At half salary retained (down to about 2.1M), they would have a hard time not finding the room to add 25-30 goals though.

 

[Doc300c]

Agreed.

Day by day I am starting to think JVR will be moved in season and that is partly because his contract is very favourable. In fact I would probably retain half his salary for the sake that the contender will be only responsible for slightly over 2.1M per season which is ridiculously good value for a team close to the limit. We won't need the cap space next season and it actually helps keep us closer to the floor without needing to dress players.

I'd imagine the bidding war for JVR at 1.5 seasons at 2.1M will return us a very good return.

I'd wait and see where our 1st ends up. Packaging JVR @ 2.1M and a 1st round pick could get us a really good Top 4 D. Obviously this is dependent on where our pick is, too high and we would want to keep it, too long and it wont add much value.