Confirmed with Link: Juuse Saros Extended

[nine_inch_fang]

I wouldn't say they aren't in the way, 8-9 million in dead space could get you one heck of another player. That said buying out Saros in 4 years doesn't kill you if Askarov turns into the goalie he was drafted to be.

Yeah you can certainly work around having to get rid of bad contracts but that doesn't mean they aren't problematic. At a minimum, because of the Duchene, Johansen, Turris contracts we're going to have to get rid of someone we would otherwise keep this year and as you say we could have added another good player into the mix without the dead cap hit we have.

To me, the only dead cap that was a bad contract is Turris (which isn’t a high number).

Duchene was a stylistic choice that Trotz made, he'll have to live with that 6ish million dead cap number for the next 2 years.

Johansen's salary is unfortunately still dead cap for the team even though he'll be LTIRetired. But that's gone after this season so whatever.

Dead cap seems to be a standard operating procedure for the NHL now. You have to hope your team keeps the DC % low to get the most available capspace but there will be some % of "waste" every season.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I wouldn't say they aren't in the way, 8-9 million in dead space could get you one heck of another player. That said buying out Saros in 4 years doesn't kill you if Askarov turns into the goalie he was drafted to be.

Yeah, plus we kind of got lucky/miracle escapes on Subban and Ellis. I don't think you should rely on miracles.

Flip side, while we're actually sitting on $12M in dead Cap atm, it's not like ALL of it could have been flipped into improving the team. If we didn't buy out Duchene, he'd have an $8M Cap hit this season. Johansen would be another $8M. Or maybe he'd be LTIRable, but would ownership pay to go $8M over the Cap via LTIR? Turris would have expired just last week. It's hard to tell for sure what could have been. But it would definitely be nicer to not have to deal with those "what ifs" and just instead put out the best possible team without having to factor in past mistakes or some amount of "luck".

I get the sense Trotz wants to try to make it seem like Nashville is A Place To Be, that we aren't bound by small market restrictions anymore. Throwing around the candy contracts feels like a classic sort of overcompensation. It doesn't feel "smart". I respect the more cautious approach Poile took. It took discipline, but I believe he was genuinely looking out for the longterm viability of the franchise. Trotz is being more ostentatious so far, he's throwing around money and term on older players, he's being flashy and reckless. Maybe that's going to pay off. It has elsewhere. Poile's approach didn't work, after all, so it's not like Trotz can fare much worse. Worst case, all that candy is wasted and we still don't win anything. But hopefully we'll have had a fun time finding out.

 

[Kat Predator]

Honestly, we've managed to skate past some "bad" contracts in the nick of time in recent memory. PK Subban was trailing off on thin ice. We let the Flyers "steal" Ryan Ellis. Then they also agreed to help pony up for Ryan Johansen. I guess we should send them a fruit basket or something. The real clunkers were Poile's shoot-for-the-moon stabs at a 2C. Turris was ok at first and blew up and Duchene just never delivered on that "best UFA available" press clipping. That high-risk, high-reward gamble is pretty much what's to be expected in swinging for the fences for a stud 2C to take you deep in the playoffs though.

If it comes to it, I like our chances of swinging Saros at just the right moment. It actually helps to have someone like Askarov (in terms of pedigree anyway) here to keep pushing the doorbell and camping on the steps. He's not ready now, but in a couple seasons, should things go well, he should be entrenched as our backup and goalie of the future. If he can handle that role, it gives us damn good options for our next "tanking" period. [PS: Of course, the NMC does up the degree of difficulty. Can't just mail him to the Flyers in a manilla envelope.]

 

[Armourboy]

Honestly, we've managed to skate past some "bad" contracts in the nick of time in recent memory. PK Subban was trailing off on thin ice. We let the Flyers "steal" Ryan Ellis. Then they also agreed to help pony up for Ryan Johansen. I guess we should send them a fruit basket or something. The real clunkers were Poile's shoot-for-the-moon stabs at a 2C. Turris was ok at first and blew up and Duchene just never delivered on that "best UFA available" press clipping. That high-risk, high-reward gamble is pretty much what's to be expected in swinging for the fences for a stud 2C to take you deep in the playoffs though.

If it comes to it, I like our chances of swinging Saros at just the right moment. It actually helps to have someone like Askarov (in terms of pedigree anyway) here to keep pushing the doorbell and camping on the steps. He's not ready now, but in a couple seasons, should things go well, he should be entrenched as our backup and goalie of the future. If he can handle that role, it gives us damn good options for our next "tanking" period. [PS: Of course, the NMC does up the degree of difficulty. Can't just mail him to the Flyers in a manilla envelope.]

Nah Philly owed us for that crap they did with Weber and basically getting Timonen and Hartnell for basically nothing.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Please see Matt Murray and MA Fleury as an example of a way things fix themselves even in an expansion period.

 

[Armourboy]

Yeah, plus we kind of got lucky/miracle escapes on Subban and Ellis. I don't think you should rely on miracles.

Flip side, while we're actually sitting on $12M in dead Cap atm, it's not like ALL of it could have been flipped into improving the team. If we didn't buy out Duchene, he'd have an $8M Cap hit this season. Johansen would be another $8M. Or maybe he'd be LTIRable, but would ownership pay to go $8M over the Cap via LTIR? Turris would have expired just last week. It's hard to tell for sure what could have been. But it would definitely be nicer to not have to deal with those "what ifs" and just instead put out the best possible team without having to factor in past mistakes or some amount of "luck".

I get the sense Trotz wants to try to make it seem like Nashville is A Place To Be, that we aren't bound by small market restrictions anymore. Throwing around the candy contracts feels like a classic sort of overcompensation. It doesn't feel "smart". I respect the more cautious approach Poile took. It took discipline, but I believe he was genuinely looking out for the longterm viability of the franchise. Trotz is being more ostentatious so far, he's throwing around money and term on older players, he's being flashy and reckless. Maybe that's going to pay off. It has elsewhere. Poile's approach didn't work, after all, so it's not like Trotz can fare much worse. Worst case, all that candy is wasted and we still don't win anything. But hopefully we'll have had a fun time finding out.

Keep in mind Trotz also has a different majority owner as well, and we have no clue just how that is changing the way things are run.

Poile mostly always had to deal with keeping things in check and making sure the franchise could stay afloat. Haslam may have given Trotz free reign to gamble.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Keep in mind Trotz also has a different majority owner as well, and we have no clue just how that is changing the way things are run.

Poile mostly always had to deal with keeping things in check and making sure the franchise could stay afloat. Haslam may have given Trotz free reign to gamble.

Something like, "Take some gambles, if we miss a few years of playoffs and attendance wanes a little I've got the bank account. Just win a cup!"?

 

[Armourboy]

Something like, "Take some gambles, if we miss a few years of playoffs and attendance wanes a little I've got the bank account. Just win a cup!"?

Could be, I mean truthfully we don't know unless one of them says it. That said I'm also not sold Poile just got in a mode of doing his best by the owners and never really got out of that rut.

 

[PredsV82]

Nah Philly owed us for that crap they did with Weber and basically getting Timonen and Hartnell for basically nothing.

Philly didn't take Joey off our hands, Colorado did. Philly took him as a cap dump in a part of a bigger deal

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Could be, I mean truthfully we don't know unless one of them says it. That said I'm also not sold Poile just got in a mode of doing his best by the owners and never really got out of that rut.

There for a few years he was definitely selling the future for the now but I think was still very cognizant of the "need" to make the playoffs, whether real or perceived.

 

[Kat Predator]

Nah Philly owed us for that crap they did with Weber and basically getting Timonen and Hartnell for basically nothing.

Who doesn't like a fruit basket though?

 

[Armourboy]

There for a few years he was definitely selling the future for the now but I think was still very cognizant of the "need" to make the playoffs, whether real or perceived.

Yeah Poile would make moves but it always felt like he still had one eye 3-4 years down the road to make sure that wasn't going to go badly. Oddly enough this feels like its more dangerous? but I'm not sure it really is tbh. He did it and still has all of his prospects with the last guys coming off soonish.

 

[Armourboy]

Philly didn't take Joey off our hands, Colorado did. Philly took him as a cap dump in a part of a bigger deal

• I didn't say anything about Joey?

 

[PredsV82]

• I didn't say anything about Joey?

Yeah the post you replied to did, not specifically you.

 

[Kat Predator]

• I didn't say anything about Joey?

No one said Philadelphia "took Joey", since that didn't happen. The Flyers ended up with Joey LTIRetired. That did happen.

 

[PredsV82]

No one said Philadelphia "took Joey", since that didn't happen. The Flyers ended up with Joey LTIRetired. That did happen.

Right, but none of the LTIR cap relief benefit accrued to us, right? So their taking him didn't help us with his contract in any way

 

[Kat Predator]

Right, but none of the LTIR cap relief benefit accrued to us, right? So their taking him didn't help us with his contract in any way

Again, no one said it did. Why are you moving moving goal posts around strawmen?

The point of the original post was that we were able to move some players at the end of their careers. A couple of them ended up in Philadelphia finally. That's it. I never claimed we got 100% out of contracts, the trades were always with Philadelphia, or that oranges were apples.

 

[PredsV82]

Again, no one said it did. Why are you moving moving goal posts around strawmen?

The point of the original post was that we were able to move some players at the end of their careers. A couple of them ended up in Philadelphia finally. That's it. I never claimed we got 100% out of contracts, the trades were always with Philadelphia, or that oranges were apples.

Goddammit I hate semantic arguments but my second case cancelled this morning and I've got nothing better to do so I'll explain myself.

Here's exactly what you said

We let the Flyers "steal" Ryan Ellis. Then they also agreed to help pony up for Ryan Johansen. I guess we should send them a fruit basket or something.

Now if you can't see how I interpreted this as you implying that Philly in some way did us a favor with Johansen(when in fact they didnt help us in any way with Joey), then that's on you not me.

 

[triggrman]

Holy shit, it's for real summertime.

 

[GoldOnGold]

Honestly, we've managed to skate past some "bad" contracts in the nick of time in recent memory. PK Subban was trailing off on thin ice. We let the Flyers "steal" Ryan Ellis. Then they also agreed to help pony up for Ryan Johansen. I guess we should send them a fruit basket or something. The real clunkers were Poile's shoot-for-the-moon stabs at a 2C. Turris was ok at first and blew up and Duchene just never delivered on that "best UFA available" press clipping. That high-risk, high-reward gamble is pretty much what's to be expected in swinging for the fences for a stud 2C to take you deep in the playoffs though.

If it comes to it, I like our chances of swinging Saros at just the right moment. It actually helps to have someone like Askarov (in terms of pedigree anyway) here to keep pushing the doorbell and camping on the steps. He's not ready now, but in a couple seasons, should things go well, he should be entrenched as our backup and goalie of the future. If he can handle that role, it gives us damn good options for our next "tanking" period. [PS: Of course, the NMC does up the degree of difficulty. Can't just mail him to the Flyers in a manilla envelope.]

I'll always wonder what it would have taken to get the Flyers 2022 1st in the Ellis trade instead of Patrick/Glass - it turned out to be the 5th overall, which was unexpected after an offseason when they got Ellis, Ristolainen, Atkinson, etc., and hired Tortorella (It turned out to be Cutter Gauthier, but hey - you win some and you lose some).

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'll always wonder what it would have taken to get the Flyers 2022 1st in the Ellis trade instead of Patrick/Glass - it turned out to be the 5th overall, which was unexpected after an offseason when they got Ellis, Ristolainen, Atkinson, etc., and hired Tortorella (It turned out to be Cutter Gauthier, but hey - you win some and you lose some).

All the chatter before the draft was that Philly might have been willing to trade that 1st. Of course we have no way of knowing how true that might have been. It would definitely have sucked if we took the Patrick/Glass angle instead. Oh well... we will never know.

 

[Armourboy]

All the chatter before the draft was that Philly might have been willing to trade that 1st. Of course we have no way of knowing how true that might have been. It would definitely have sucked if we took the Patrick/Glass angle instead. Oh well... we will never know.

I mean if Poile had known it was going to be a top 5 pick I'm sure he takes that option instead if available, but he would have no way of knowing that at the time, Philly was expected to be a playoff team.

My guess is Poile went with the option that gave him what he thought was a young NHL player rather than a prospect that would need time. I mean we were still trying to compete ourselves at that time.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I mean if Poile had known it was going to be a top 5 pick I'm sure he takes that option instead if available, but he would have no way of knowing that at the time, Philly was expected to be a playoff team.

My guess is Poile went with the option that gave him what he thought was a young NHL player rather than a prospect that would need time. I mean we were still trying to compete ourselves at that time.

Yeah, it's all ok the way it played out. We definitely had threads and discussions on here with Flyers fans about doing it for the 1st instead. But it kinda relies on the Flyers being dumb... they might have been... but you can't lean on somebody else f***ing up.

 

[Kat Predator]

Yeah, it's all ok the way it played out. We definitely had threads and discussions on here with Flyers fans about doing it for the 1st instead. But it kinda relies on the Flyers being dumb... they might have been... but you can't lean on somebody else f***ing up.

That's the rub. As it went down, it was 3 teams trading guys with recent injury histories. Those players got a change of scenery, and the teams took gambles. And the net result looks like a wipeout for everyone.

 

[Armourboy]

That's the rub. As it went down, it was 3 teams trading guys with recent injury histories. Those players got a change of scenery, and the teams took gambles. And the net result looks like a wipeout for everyone.

Player wise maybe, but the real win in that whole thing was getting rid of that contract.