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Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

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Really overthinking things rather than just playing.

Not being able to move the puck because of indecision really points to his lack of confidence.

It's not the end of the world for him if he moves on ... career earnings of over $4mm. He can feed his family, and it isn't like his contract is horrible, just the Leafs Cap doesn't give much room to maneuver, and they'll have to pay Sandin and Liljegren, and cover Rielly's increase next year. I'd say he's gone from the team next year regardless of what he does from here forward.
 
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I thought the past couple years he played really well. You can say Muzzin carried him, but positionally he played well. He was physical when he needed to be, he was decent at getting the puck out, and good at board battles, and very good on the PK. This year he has the yips bad! Everything is wrong.. bad passes, rushed/blind passes, not in position correctly. Something definitely happened to the guy.
 
ULF_55 said:
Really overthinking things rather than just playing.

Not being able to move the puck because of indecision really points to his lack of confidence.

It's not the end of the world for him if he moves on ... career earnings of over $4mm. He can feed his family, and it isn't like his contract is horrible, just the Leafs Cap doesn't give much room to maneuver, and they'll have to pay Sandin and Liljegren, and cover Rielly's increase next year. I'd say he's gone from the team next year regardless of what he does from here forward.
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not to mention something for Campbell
 
Holl has obviously been dumped on a lot because he's easily been the Leafs worst defenseman so far this season & we've witnessed a lot of it so far.

It's not his fault that he's been their 3rd highest played defenseman (who happens to still be playing tough matchup minutes for whatever reason). I've been a fan of his since his comeback story & think he can still turn it around. I don't think he's been as bad as he's been made out to be on here; the position he's in, expectations are obviously very high & he's the guy who will habitually get criticized when younger upcoming defensemen are underplayed.

IDK what they're doing with him but he's obviously a guy who is off right now & has lost his confidence/rhythm ; continuing to play him 20+ minutes a night (in the position he's in) ahead of Liljegren, Sandin, & Dermott just seems really stupid at this point.
 
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123offtheglass said:
Holl has obviously been dumped on a lot because he's easily been the Leafs worst defenseman so far this season & we've witnessed a lot of it so far.

It's not his fault that he's been their 3rd highest played defenseman (who happens to still be playing tough matchup minutes for whatever reason). I've been a fan of his since his comeback story & think he can still turn it around. I don't think he's been as bad as he's been made out to be on here; the position he's in, expectations are obviously very high & he's the guy who will habitually get criticized when younger upcoming defensemen are underplayed.

IDK what they're doing with him but he's obviously a guy who is off right now & has lost his confidence/rhythm ; continuing to play him 20+ minutes a night (in the position he's in) ahead of Liljegren, Sandin, & Dermott just seems really stupid at this point.
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The guy is 29. Time to move on. Don’t see how we are any worse with a guy like Rubins playing at this point.
 
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One of these days!! To the moon!!

5xbr79.jpg
 
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When Sandin returns I would like to see these pairings given a shot for a few games:

Rielly-Holl
Muzzin-Liljegren
Sandin-Brodie

Reasoning: Holl/Rielly have over 70% CF in limited action so far this year 5 on 5. Takes Holl off of the primary defensive pair. Liljegren has been great with both Sandin and Muzzin, and makes both of them better as well. Gives Muzzin a steadier partner for the time being. Sandin has been good with everybody and has pretty decent numbers with Brodie as well.

Dermott has been great with Sandin but hasn't played well outside of that pairing this year. He's the odd man out for now.
 
KapG said:
The guy is 29. Time to move on. Don’t see how we are any worse with a guy like Rubins playing at this point.
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If they end up needing to get under the cap, I think Holl is the guy to go & Rubins does look very promising for the future.

Holl is 29 but he's also a late bloomer; as a D he also hasn't had any recent significant injuries.

This season, I think he can still turn it around & be much closer to how good he had been. ATM though I think the best thing to do is to move him if they can get close to a 2nd round pick or equivalent.
 
123offtheglass said:
If they end up needing to get under the cap, I think Holl is the guy to go & Rubins does look very promising for the future.

Holl is 29 but he's also a late bloomer; as a D he also hasn't had any recent significant injuries.

This season, I think he can still turn it around & be much closer to how good he had been. ATM though I think the best thing to do is to move him if they can get close to a 2nd round pick or equivalent.
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There is probably zero chance we get a 2nd for him . I’d just move him as a cap dump. He’s a bum
 
KapG said:
There is probably zero chance we get a 2nd for him . I’d just move him as a cap dump. He’s a bum
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Seems like they're 'showcasing' him but idk how much his play this year has lowered his value. He has a lot of qualities which GMs have been overpaying or paying premium for. IF any teams still views him as a potential top 4, penalty killing shutdown D @2m for 1.5 years, a 2nd is very plausible based on previous trades. I think he could still bounce back to being a legit top 4 shutdown D.

Trade value is hard to predict until it actually happens, especially with players underperforming.
 
LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
When Sandin returns I would like to see these pairings given a shot for a few games:

Rielly-Holl
Muzzin-Liljegren
Sandin-Brodie

Reasoning: Holl/Rielly have over 70% CF in limited action so far this year 5 on 5. Takes Holl off of the primary defensive pair. Liljegren has been great with both Sandin and Muzzin, and makes both of them better as well. Gives Muzzin a steadier partner for the time being. Sandin has been good with everybody and has pretty decent numbers with Brodie as well.

Dermott has been great with Sandin but hasn't played well outside of that pairing this year. He's the odd man out for now.
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I definitely like the balance of those pairings, and that there really isn't a bottom pairing in that bunch. The potential drawback is that there might not be a true, top pairing either. Would need to distribute the minutes so all of Rielly, Muzzin and Brodie receive the requisite amount of ice time as well.
 
ottomaddox said:
People are always going to think about McCann now...
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As they should. The McCann trade was a great move by Dubas, but, then followed it up by completely negating it with that boneheaded move to not protect him over Holl.
 
Buds17 said:
I definitely like the balance of those pairings, and that there really isn't a bottom pairing in that bunch. The potential drawback is that there might not be a true, top pairing either. Would need to distribute the minutes so all of Rielly, Muzzin and Brodie receive the requisite amount of ice time as well.
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The only guys that haven't been great 5 on 5 really are Holl and Dermott, but in that scenario you still give Muzzin/Liljegren the primary defensive matchup and then balance the secomdary between the other two pairs
 
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New drinking game; take a shot every time he's on the ice for a goal...but here's the twist - you have to take 2 shots if the cameraman post-goal zooms into Holl and he's just gliding on the ice. His feet aren't moving = 2 shots.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
The only guys that haven't been great 5 on 5 really are Holl and Dermott, but in that scenario you still give Muzzin/Liljegren the primary defensive matchup and then balance the secomdary between the other two pairs
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He's been every bit as good with Sandin on the bottom pairing as Liljegren has.

Hasn't been great with Rielly, who has been his only other main partner. He hasn't played significant minutes with anyone else, but he hasn't been great with those guys in limited minutes either.

He has played well with Holl in the past, and I think that could be a very high end 3rd pairing. If you get Liljegren or Sandin to work on the 2nd pairing, then you don't even need to touch the defense at the TDL.
 
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