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Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

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Happy Holl got his $$$ TBH .. luv to see a guy without NHL skill get some $$$ .. but as I have told you guys, when everyone jumped up and told me i did not know what i was saying, he was always a 7th dman at best if he keeps a real simple game .. he got to play with Muzzy and Muzzy is a top end NHL #2 (or used to be past few seasons) so he looked far far better then he ever was .. Muzzy clearly has slipped a little and now you are all seeing what I have told you past 2 years .. what is sad is Dubie thought he was better then he really was (again stats/analytics clearly are still in their novel stages of development so I can understand why some of you guys thought he was better then he is) .. but a GM needs to be smarter than that .. now another bad move announcing they are looking to trade him for CAP relief .. so guess what folks Holl has found out NO one else in league wants him .. and now he looks defeated completely .. would have been far better off having Seattle pick him up (although they would have taken Dermy from my sources anywho) but we could have maybe given a late pick in 2023 to Seattle to take Holl and get him off our books .. as someone stated in game thread he will be completely out of league in 12 months and likely retired
 
Marner being out is really exposing how inferior Holl makes us. Pretty obvious most of our defense success is team-wise I.e forwards contribute half or more (probably more)

Marner injury is a blessing in disguise. Get Holl dumped. He can't survive unless the defense as a whole is elite. Without Marner it went from elite to just good.
 
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last night was extra disappointing for me because I thought Holl had his best game of the year against Columbus the game before, and the Muzz-Holl pairing in general was great that game.

But they stunk again in this one, though tbh I probably blame Muzz more than Holl in this one.

The good news is that Lilly is playing so damn well that there's a potential very easy fix here. No guarantees that Lilly will be great against the tougher competition but he definitely has the potential to be.

I don't blame Keefe for sticking with it this long, but I think after last night the time may have come to give Lilly an extended look with Muzz and see if dermott-Holl can dominate as the bottom pair.
 
zeke said:
last night was extra disappointing for me because I thought Holl had his best game of the year against Columbus the game before, and the Muzz-Holl pairing in general was great that game.

But they stunk again in this one, though tbh I probably blame Muzz more than Holl in this one.

The good news is that Lilly is playing so damn well that there's a potential very easy fix here. No guarantees that Lilly will be great against the tougher competition but he definitely has the potential to be.

I don't blame Keefe for sticking with it this long, but I think after last night the time may have come to give Lilly an extended look with Muzz and see if dermott-Rubins can dominate as the bottom pair.
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I agree on the last point. :thumbu:
 
The Best Leafs Ever said:
There is a reason why Babcock didn't like him, for someone who had worked with some of the best defensemen over the years clearly knows what he was doing by sending Holl down. Meh though, he is still serviceable D for the bottom teams that aren't willing to spend too much money for the depth guys.
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Babs also didn't like Spezza, despite coaching Hall of Fame forwards in Detroit. Holl is a bottom pairing D who is asked to play in a top 4 role. Both him and Muzz are too slow and with Muzz's noticeable decline, he can no longer prop up Holl.
 
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AvroArrow said:
The eye test determined, you were telling the truth. Holl sucks. But Muzzin was pretty bad last night too, but Holl is on another level.
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Muzzin has been bad but Holl has been awful. After being such a revelation last year too. Like others have said he needs to simplify his game again. Stop with the overaggressive pinches.
 
Looks like the new pairings are staying together in practice today.

Muzz - Liljegren
Rubins - Holl

yuge chance for Lilly here. and he's certainly earned it.

If Lilly can keep up his level of play in the top-4, I don't think we need to be looking to trade for any upgrades.
 
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zeke said:
Looks like the new pairings are staying together in practice today.

Muzz - Liljegren
Rubins - Holl

yuge chance for Lilly here. and he's certainly earned it.

If Lilly can keep up his level of play in the top-4, I don't think we need to be looking to trade for any upgrades.
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Chicago is one of the better teams for Liljegren to play against in this increased role. They are not a a terrifying team. It also is a chance for Rubins, he can gain experience against a team that is not overly big, and can use this experience to learn how he can leverage his size.
 
Captain34 said:
Babs also didn't like Spezza, despite coaching Hall of Fame forwards in Detroit. Holl is a bottom pairing D who is asked to play in a top 4 role. Both him and Muzz are too slow and with Muzz's noticeable decline, he can no longer prop up Holl.
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It's noy just Detroit, he worked with some of the best D in Olympics and won gold medals. Yea he might be biased about Spezza but working with forwards was never his strong point to begin with. Another thing is that Holl is not a bottom pairing D, he is at best Marincin level with barely being #7.
 
Never been a fan. I subscribe to the Muzzin carry theory as well. good news is Holl isn't overpaid or overcommitted to. he can easily slot in on the bottom pairing just fine, provided Liljegren or Sandin can fill the 4 spot of course.
 
Captain34 said:
Babs also didn't like Spezza, despite coaching Hall of Fame forwards in Detroit. Holl is a bottom pairing D who is asked to play in a top 4 role. Both him and Muzz are too slow and with Muzz's noticeable decline, he can no longer prop up Holl.
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Babcocks issue with Spezza has nothing to do with the player. He was just being a prick and letting everyone know he runs the team.
 
Holl is not Holl this year. Something is distracting him.

On many nights he looks like a guy who is playing not to lose his job vs a guy who is playing to compete.
 
Jimmy Firecracker said:
Muzzin has been bad but Holl has been awful. After being such a revelation last year too. Like others have said he needs to simplify his game again. Stop with the overaggressive pinches.
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Muzzin was given a glimpse of his future replacement in Rubin. Whether it was incidental or not, it should put a fire under his ass if he has aspirations of longevity in key positions on this team.
 
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