Luke DeCock: Justin Faulk Speculation

[SlavinAway]

So, speculating our lineup with Kase?

NN-Aho-TT
Svech-Staal-Kase
Dzingel-Haula-Necas
Foegele-Wallmark-Martinook
Extra: McGinn??

Only change I would make is swap Kase and TT.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So, speculating our lineup with Kase?

NN-Aho-TT
Svech-Staal-Kase
Dzingel-Haula-Necas
Foegele-Wallmark-Martinook
Extra: McGinn??

Can't see any way McGinn is an extra. Or Foegele or Martinook for that matter either. If the Canes get Kase, then either a forward has to be traded or Necas goes to the AHL.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I know my view may look a bit idealized, if not downright fantasizing, but I see a legit goodwill value in helping an on-his-way-out player to get the best contract he can have, when you have already pretty much chosen to not try fit his ask in your own cap structure.

Assuming that we can get reasonable return from multiple teams, which is I think a fair assumption, I agree. I don't think anyone's going to scupper a deal over an extra 4th round pick here.

 

[sheriff bart]

Can't see any way McGinn is an extra. Or Foegele or Martinook for that matter either. If the Canes get Kase, then either a forward has to be traded or Necas goes to the AHL.

I don't see Necas going to the AHL. I also don't see one of the remaining guys being a scratch. Definitely looks like somebody gets moved for futures to a team needing a proven NHL forward (sorry, somebody is going to Edmonton).

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

EDIT: was a line-up discussion so moved to training camp thread.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Can't see any way McGinn is an extra. Or Foegele or Martinook for that matter either. If the Canes get Kase, then either a forward has to be traded or Necas goes to the AHL.

I don't personally think that anyone will be benched or traded if the Canes get Kase. They will just make the fourth line Foegele-Wallmark-McGinn-Martinook and rotate three of them every game depending on hot hands and the health of the players. When an inevitable injury occurs to our forward group, they can promote the most offensively productive guy to the third line.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't personally think that anyone will be benched if the Canes get Kase. They will just make the fourth line Foegele-Wallmark-McGinn-Martinook and rotate three of them every game depending on hot hands and the health of the players.

I could very well be wrong, but I disagree. I don't see Martinook or McGinn "rotating" in and out. I struggle seeing Foegele do that either.

If Kase comes to Carolina, I fully expect either Necas will be in Charlotte or someone like Wallmark or McGinn will be moved. Maybe not right away, but not too far into the season.

EDIT: Looks like same discussion is going on in the training camp thread

 

[My Special Purpose]

I mean, Justin definitely has the leverage here to negotiate with teams that are on his ok-trade list.

I dunno about that. I'm not sure how much rope the team gave him, but there have to be specific permissions granted to be negotiating contract terms. They said he could seek out a trade. I'm not sure that means "pretend you're a UFA."

My guess is there's backroom talk between the Canes and Faulk's agent that let's him/them know where possible, realistic trade options exist. It does nobody any good to have those discussions if there's not a viable trade in place. The Faulk value proposition becomes somewhat different based on this season's performance.

This is obviously true because Faulk is talking with Anaheim, which was not on his trade list. The Canes are looking for the best return, and Faulk is looking for the best fit/extension, so they're unlikely to match up 100 percent. So it comes down to, do the Canes get the best value and Justin has to figure it out, or does Justin get what he wants and the Canes have to figure it out. It will be a compromise.

The Canes came to Justin and said, "we'd appreciate you working out a deal with Anaheim because the return is excellent."

Justin may have come to the Canes and said, "Detroit is offering the best contract."

Obviously, neither is forced to do anything, but at some point, it will work out.

 

[Svechhammer]

I get the feeling like its increasingly likely that Faulk gets moved sometime soon

I also get the feeling that the odds of him going to Anaheim are decreasing by the second

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Those feelings seem to run counter to each other. There's a limited pool of teams that have the need, the cap space and the competitive motivation to trade for him. In a somewhat cursory glance around the league, Anaheim, Arizona and Edmonton (requires the Canes retaining or taking back some money) are the only teams that stand out.

This shouldn't end with the team taking whatever they can get. He has value as an own-rental.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Those feelings seem to run counter to each other. There's a limited pool of teams that have the need, the cap space and the competitive motivation to trade for him. In a somewhat cursory glance around the league, Anaheim, Arizona and Edmonton (requires the Canes retaining or taking back some money) are the only teams that stand out.

This shouldn't end with the team taking whatever they can get. He has value as an own-rental.

There's several teams that can use him with an extension, such as Dallas (requires Hanzal to LTIR), Winnipeg (Extended Faulk + prospects for Ehlers), and Detroit (Mantha or Athanasiou). If Colorado wants to let Byram develop and stick him in juniors for a year, they can use Faulk as a rental for perhaps a late 1st. Nashville could also use some RHD help considering the Subban trade, though IMO they may be more interested in TVR than Faulk. There's more choices than you may think, though Kase is far and away my favorite of the bunch.

 

[MinJaBen]

There's several teams that can use him with an extension, such as Dallas (requires Hanzal to LTIR), Winnipeg (Extended Faulk + prospects for Ehlers), and Detroit (Mantha or Athanasiou). If Colorado wants to let Byram develop and stick him in juniors for a year, they can use Faulk as a rental for perhaps a late 1st. Nashville could also use some RHD help considering the Subban trade, though IMO they may be more interested in TVR than Faulk. There's more choices than you may think, though Kase is far and away my favorite of the bunch.

I doubt we can do either of those as the cap coming back this year would be larger than what we moved out with Faulk. We'd be further over the cap and now have to trade instead of just sending AHLers down.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I doubt we can do either of those as the cap coming back this year would be larger than what we moved out with Faulk. We'd be further over the cap and now have to trade instead of just sending AHLers down.

If you add McGinn's salary to Faulk in an Ehlers trade, Canes would clear more than enough space. Mantha also only makes $3.3M this year, so much like with the Kase trade, you can do it straight-up.

 

[MinJaBen]

If you add McGinn's salary to Faulk in an Ehlers trade, Canes would clear more than enough space. Mantha also only makes $3.3M this year.

Ah, yes, I misread Mantha's salary, so that is true. However, I think part of the motivation for the Jets to possibly move Ehlers was to reduce cap for their two RFAs and get defense. If we send the same cap back to them, they may not be as willing to move him.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

There's several teams that can use him with an extension, such as Dallas (requires Hanzal to LTIR), Winnipeg (Extended Faulk + prospects for Ehlers), and Detroit (Mantha or Athanasiou). If Colorado wants to let Byram develop and stick him in juniors for a year, they can use Faulk as a rental for perhaps a late 1st. Nashville could also use some RHD help considering the Subban trade, though IMO they may be more interested in TVR than Faulk. There's more choices than you may think, though Kase is far and away my favorite of the bunch.

Dallas is a possible option, I'll grant you that. Winnipeg isn't trading Ehlers for Faulk+, extension or not. Otherwise, the Jets don't have the cap space to acquire him once Laine and Connor sign, unless the Canes take back a Kulikov or Perrault. That seems pointless. I have no idea why Detroit would trade Mantha or Athanasiou for Faulk given its competitive situation. Yzerman knows what he's doing; the time isn't right for that. Byram is irrelevant; Colorado will have Johnson and Makar on the right side in its Top 4. Trading a 1st for a rental doesn't strike me as something Sakic would do. Nashville won't be a player unless Carolina is giving him away.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Dallas is a possible option, I'll grant you that. Winnipeg isn't trading Ehlers for Faulk+, extension or not. Otherwise, the Jets don't have the cap space to acquire him once Laine and Connor sign, unless the Canes take back a Kulikov or Perrault. That seems pointless. I have no idea why Detroit would trade Mantha or Athanasiou for Faulk given its competitive situation. Yzerman knows what he's doing; the time isn't right for that. Byram is irrelevant; Colorado will have Johnson and Makar on the right side in its Top 4. Trading a 1st for a rental doesn't strike me as something Sakic would do. Nashville won't be a player unless Carolina is giving him away.

Again, Faulk with an extension is something that a team would do if they view Faulk as a potential long-term veteran piece, sort of like Vegas with Mark Stone and Max Pacioretty. That's why I placed Detroit as an option, since they seem to have lots of NHL-ready forward prospects and less NHL-ready defensive pieces. Anaheim seems to covet Faulk the most, though, at least in terms of that regard.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Anaheim seems to covet Faulk the most, though, at least in terms of that regard.

Why would you say that? If that were true, this deal would have been done two days ago.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I get the feeling like its increasingly likely that Faulk gets moved sometime soon

Agreed. He's not coming back.

I also get the feeling that the odds of him going to Anaheim are decreasing by the second

Agreed. I think this was the Canes hoping something would work out, but knowing it probably wouldn't. Once this officially falls through -- if it hasn't already -- they'll move on to a team on Justin's list.

 

[Chrispy]

Why would you say that? If that were true, this deal would have been done two days ago.

Anaheim coveting Faulk the most != Anaheim coveting Faulk enough to make it worth Faulk waiving.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Anaheim coveting Faulk the most != Anaheim coveting Faulk enough to make it worth Faulk waiving.

Faulk is talking with Anaheim because they made the offer the Canes like the best. If that means they covet him the most, then so be it. But if they really liked him, they'd sign him.

 

[A Star is Burns]

It's not always as easy as looking at a roster and saying there is no need. Otherwise the Canes wouldn't have Gardiner in the first place.

 

[Svechhammer]

Faulk is talking with Anaheim because they made the offer the Canes like the best. If that means they covet him the most, then so be it. But if they really liked him, they'd sign him.

I don't know if they've necessarily offered the best deal, but they're the ones coming with a player we've targeted for a while, so there is mutual interest to get something done there. The problem is, I just don't think Faulk is going to waive to go there.

So we're going to have to look at other options. It certainly sounds like there are multiple other suitors who are coming with comparable offers. As long as they're not all on the NTC, as soon as the Anaheim opportunity is dead, I think something would be done quickly.

 

[Chrispy]

Faulk is talking with Anaheim because they made the offer the Canes like the best. If that means they covet him the most, then so be it. But if they really liked him, they'd sign him.

Much like we've seen with the Borg, there is a price point at which you no longer "like" a player.

Anaheim will make the offer they deem to be right for Faulk. Then it's Faulk's choice whether that extension is enough to waive or he'd rather play out this season and test his luck in the UFA market.

 

[geehaad]

Faulk is talking with Anaheim because they made the offer the Canes like the best. If that means they covet him the most, then so be it. But if they really liked him, they'd sign him.

Your point seems to be that the Anaheim offer does not necessarily represent the team who covets Faulk the most simply because they gave the best offer. If a different team coveted Faulk more, isn't it more likely that their offer would show that desire, and therefore be a stronger offer?

It's unclear to me why you are pushing back against this.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Your point seems to be that the Anaheim offer does not necessarily represent the team who covets Faulk the most simply because they gave the best offer. If a different team coveted Faulk more, isn't it more likely that their offer would show that desire, and therefore be a stronger offer?

It's unclear to me why you are pushing back against this.

I'm pushing back on the characterization of Anaheim as the team that covets Faulk the most because they offered the best return in trade. But, evidently they haven't offered enough money. So, it's a Catch-22. Do we determine the team that covets Faulk the most by what they offer in trade, or what they offer in a contract? If Detroit, for example, is willing to offer the contract he wants, but will only offer us a third-round pick, do they covet him more? It's a ridiculous debate, and we can be all finished now if you want, but I just wanted to be clear about which I was commenting.