Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[Mrb1p]

Using this logic, no player is worth being picked because you know…

Draft eligible players aren't playing against NHL players their draft years?

Logan Cooley played his draft year against USHL players

Jeremy Milner, Stephen Halliday and Mitchell Miller we’re the leading scorers in the USHL the year Cooleh got drafted.

Let's look at the top scorers in the Slovak league for Simon Nemec in case that's the player you would have preferred.

Samuel Bucek, Brant Harris, William Rapuzzi.

We could repeat this exercise for any player we could have picked 1st overall.

For me the ironic part is we shit on Slafkovsky for beating up on weak teams at the Olympics

While simultaneously coming on here every day for him to be played in the AHL where our 5th round pick from 3 years ago is the leading scorer.

Wild stuff

This is just dishonest, lets do better.

 

[Shawnathon]

But you never talked about numbers…you talked about the quality of competition that Slafkovsjy faced at the Olympics.

If producing against France and Kazakhstan is meaningless…

Then producing against the Fargo Force and Chicago Steel is what?

I posted the leading scorers in the olympics and how it wasn’t hard for bums to produce with that level of competition. That’s talking about numbers. If you want to bring league play you have to compare Slaf’s Liiga performance to the players league play you mentioned. Tournaments are short and not comparable.

 

[417]

This is just dishonest, lets do better.

By who? Me?

Is this a joke?

I'm not the one bending over backwards to try to dismiss Slafkovsky’s Olympic game performance.

You quoting the wrong post my guy

 

[Jaynki]

You’re comparing league play to a 7 game tournament. You need to use Slafkovsky’s Liiga numbers for your argument to work and it gets a WHOLE lot uglier for you if you do.

No it don't.

Slafkovsky started the season with a killer Hlinka. 9pts in 5 games.

Then he had a slow start in the Liiga with 4 points in 21 games. Despite that, his offensive metrics were higher than Kemell and Lambert. (Offensive opportunities generated for himself + offensive opportunities generated for his teammates). He was sent to the U18 were he obliterated his competition and had 18 points in 11 games so they called him back. Just want to point out that he played defensive minute, in a rigid defensive system in the team that had the less offense of the liiga, for what its worth. Bad excuse for his low production in 31 games imo.

WJC he had 1 points in 2 games but he was all over the f***ing place. GoldenHands posted his game against Sweden.

Then came his 6 points in 10 games for liiga end of season.
His playoffs 7 points in 18 games.
Then 16 points 15 games in international play.

Folks argue that the international play are a small sample size and we should not based our opinion on it. Fair, and i agree.

But, he had a stretch of 29 points in 43 games against liiga reg season, but mainly playoffs and tougher opposition than Liiga.

How does that sample compares to the 21 games where he had 4 points on the beginning of the season?

Isnt really his 21 games where he underproduced the small sample we should dismiss? Also considering his metrics were excellent.

I am all in for an healthy debate. We can argue that he was not a unanimous 1st pick, not in the tier of the Matthews and Mcdavid of this world. Fair.

Maybe Cooley would have been a better pick, fair.

Was he rushed? Fair.

But the constant extrapolation on how he did nothing good, he has no skills, he is closer to a 10ov pick, if not for his size he is a 2nd rounder, he only was good againt sudan, etc. Those are toxic argument and they dont make for an healthy debate.

 

[Mrb1p]

By who? Me?

Is this a joke?

I'm not the one bending over backwards to try to dismiss Slafkovsky’s Olympic game performance.

You quoting the wrong post my guy

No. Im quoting the right guy. Do better.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You have bet too many chips on the over-performance of Slovakia and Slafkovsky in two weak tournaments and you ignored his glaring red flags and inability to function in structured league play. Not our fault.

The tough truth is that hasn’t looked like a worthy 1OA draft pick at any point. And it isn’t his fault. He was not ready for NHL action, he was rushed.

Fine for you to criticize other posters for their opinions and to blast Habs management for drafting a guy who may have less upside than most #1s. Free speech is a thing. However, the fact is that 50% of the scouts Bob Mckenzie polled had Slaf at #1, and the other 50% had him at #2.

All those people saw him play much more than you or I did and all are aware of his work and progress in Liiga. Your unnuanced assessment of Slaf is frankly quite an outlier. Repeating it several times per week is really tiring for those of us who are trying to be objective, neither overhyping nor trashing the pick or the player.

 

[417]

I posted the leading scorers in the olympics and how it wasn’t hard for bums to produce with that level of competition.

So let me get this straight…and if I'm making a leap, please feel free to correct me.

But Slafkovsky is a bum because he produced points for his country at the Olympoc games?

That’s talking about numbers. If you want to bring league play you have to compare Slaf’s Liiga performance to the players league play you mentioned. Tournaments are short and not comparable.

How do you compare Liiga performance, a professional league, to the USHL, an amateur league?

Yes, tournaments are short but that doesn't stop people from freaking out every time the WJC come around

 

[Jaynki]

Slaf deniers : the international play means nothing, we should not based our opinion on such a small sample size.

Fact : Slaf post og in liiga + og + wc + playoffs -> 29 points in 43 games.

Versus 4 points in 21 games pre OG.

So, which sample size is twice bigger than the others? Which sample size should we base our opinion on?

 

[417]

No. Im quoting the right guy. Do better.

Please…im not the one trying to dismiss leagues and performances.

But you can't on one hand dismiss Olympic Games and prop up the USHL…im sorry, that's who needs to do better.

You definitely got a cause, you're just misguided in identifying your target.

But I get it, trust me lol

 

[BaseballCoach]

By who? Me?

Is this a joke?

I'm not the one bending over backwards to try to dismiss Slafkovsky’s Olympic game performance.

You quoting the wrong post my guy

Don't take it too seriously.

@Mrb1p loves to play Gotcha, rarely posts a clear statement he can be evaluated on, and is often mistaken when reading into the intentions of other posters.

He sees liars everywhere. In real life that usually happens when..........

 

[417]

Short tournaments don't matter now…

This is the argument brought forth by the same people who have been crying, and will again in a few months, about the Montreal Canadiens needing to send Slafkovsky to the WJC to play for Slovakia.

The same folks who fawn over player’s production at these short tournaments.

And I'm the one who needs to “do better”. I'll remember these arguments come Xmas time during the WJC. We’ll see how meaningless short tournaments are then.

This is nasty, nasty work by some of yall.

 

[salbutera]

When I hear the term rebuild, I expect a 5 year period from the start until Cup contention - if of course, things go well. Some teams never compete for the Cup. They keep sucking, keep getting their consolation prizes most years, but never get to the 11 strong players they need.

I see the rebuild starting when Hughes arrived - January 2022. If things go well, we should be competing for the Cup in 2026-27. Working backwards, that means likely one playoff win in 2025-26 and strong push for the playoffs next year.

All this being said, there is nothing automatic about this process - no such thing as "suck for X years and you are guaranteed to become a contender in Y years."

Hughes started with Suzuki-Caufield-Guhle, as young Top 11 pieces and Toffoli-Petry as older ones that needed conversion to younger assets. Anderson is in-between age-wise and unclear if Top-11 material. Hughes needed more time to see if his cap hit would make sense when we would be ready to compete. I expect Hughes to make a decision about Anderson after this season.

We have now added Matheson, Dach, Monahan and likely Newhook to the strong player group and hopefully Slafkovsky joins them. That's potentially 8-9 impactful guys 30 and under by end of next year, We seem to be in line for competing for a playoff spot by then.

Can we bring aboard another 3 pieces, net of any who are traded, fail to re-sign or lose their mojo? That's they key question because the main rebuild phase is not yet complete.

Agreed - another point worth repeating, there is NO team that is successful at addressing all key positions via the draft during the rebuild process.

A successful rebuild incorporates drafting & development + external acquisitions (via trade and/or UFA)

 

[Jaynki]

Michkov’s league performance is contextualized with his age and historic comparable performances. There is no need to lie and suggest his performance is celebrated in and of itself — though, I haven’t kept up but I think he’s performing well in the KHL in general.

You have bet too many chips on the over-performance of Slovakia and Slafkovsky in two weak tournaments and you ignored his glaring red flags and inability to function in structured league play. Not our fault.

The tough truth is that hasn’t looked like a worthy 1OA draft pick at any point. And it isn’t his fault. He was not ready for NHL action, he was rushed.

Will rushing ruin him? I hope not, but I think it will if it hasn’t already.

Can he improve considerably and be a serious NHL player in 2-3 years? Yes of course he can and yes we want him. That said, the things we believe he needs to improve (decision making, playmaking, IQ) seem so far removed from his current skillset that it seems unlikely he can catch on and catch up whilst in the NHL. I’m not the only one who thinks so.


3. Tournament play is not indicative of anything. Joel Armia plays well for Finland. He is waiver tier in the NHL.

We can contextualize Slaf performance in the OG with the likes of Power, Mactavish and Beniers. Players he outplayed by a big margin.

We can contextualize his WC with a lot of other DY player. He performed better than every other guys there in recent year including Fantilli and Carlsson.

There are a lot of great comparables he outplayed there.

I would still bet a boatload on Slaf because he is an improved player and he is in his window of maximum growth. Im eager to see him produce tho.

 

[Scriptor]

No it don't.

Slafkovsky started the season with a killer Hlinka. 9pts in 5 games.

Then he had a slow start in the Liiga with 4 points in 21 games. Despite that, his offensive metrics were higher than Kemell and Lambert. (Offensive opportunities generated for himself + offensive opportunities generated for his teammates). He was sent to the U18 were he obliterated his competition and had 18 points in 11 games so they called him back. Just want to point out that he played defensive minute, in a rigid defensive system in the team that had the less offense of the liiga, for what its worth. Bad excuse for his low production in 31 games imo.

WJC he had 1 points in 2 games but he was all over the f***ing place. GoldenHands posted his game against Sweden.

Then came his 6 points in 10 games for liiga end of season.
His playoffs 7 points in 18 games.
Then 16 points 15 games in international play.

Folks argue that the international play are a small sample size and we should not based our opinion on it. Fair, and i agree.

But, he had a stretch of 29 points in 43 games against liiga reg season, but mainly playoffs and tougher opposition than Liiga.

How does that sample compares to the 21 games where he had 4 points on the beginning of the season?

Isnt really his 21 games where he underproduced the small sample we should dismiss? Also considering his metrics were excellent.

I am all in for an healthy debate. We can argue that he was not a unanimous 1st pick, not in the tier of the Matthews and Mcdavid of this world. Fair.

Maybe Cooley would have been a better pick, fair.

Was he rushed? Fair.

But the constant extrapolation on how he did nothing good, he has no skills, he is closer to a 10ov pick, if not for his size he is a 2nd rounder, he only was good againt sudan, etc. Those are toxic argument and they dont make for an healthy debate.

Isnt really his 21 games where he underproduced the small sample we should dismiss? Also considering his metrics were excellent.

That's the whole point to make, right here -- And it'snot just a question of convenience. A lot of people looking at the overall results for the season are forgetting that, at this agent's not uncommon for players to progress rapidly as the season unfolds.

More accent on the progression as the season wore on is a truer reflection of the player's evolving game.

At 17 -- or 18 -- Slafkovsky was not a veteran NHLer for whose can say that his overall production that season was meh. He was growing adolescent, coming into his own as the season wore on and producing better and better against tougher and tougher competition.

Late riser, sure but, still, an improving player that became much better than when the season started.

 

[417]

Don't take it too seriously.

@Mrb1p loves to play Gotcha, rarely posts a clear statement he can be evaluated on, and is often mistaken when reading into the intentions of other posters.

He sees liars everywhere. In real life that usually happens when..........

It's just ironic to see the same guy who was crying yesterday about being called a “Slaf hater”, now go around and call other peoples arguments dishonest.

Incroyable lol

 

[BaseballCoach]

Short tournaments don't matter now…

This is the argument brought forth by the same people who have been crying, and will again in a few months, about the Montreal Canadiens needing to send Slafkovsky to the WJC to play for Slovakia.

The same folks who fawn over player’s production at these short tournaments.

And I'm the one who needs to “do better”.

This is nasty, nasty work by some of yall.

The more cocksure people are of their amateur opnions, the more nasty, by and large.

We all need to be humble. We're often going to be wrong. For example, I can now see that I over-rated 2023 Petry and under-rated Kovacevic and Pearson. I can say that and still smile through life, lol.

 

[Mrb1p]

Don't take it too seriously.

@Mrb1p loves to play Gotcha, rarely posts a clear statement he can be evaluated on, and is often mistaken when reading into the intentions of other posters.

He sees liars everywhere. In real life that usually happens when..........

I dont think you read my posts if you think i dont make clear statements lol

 

[BaseballCoach]

Isnt really his 21 games where he underproduced the small sample we should dismiss? Also considering his metrics were excellent.

Also the lower producing 21 games were at the start of the season.

I dont think you read my posts if you think i dont make clear statements lol

Were you high on Adam Boqvist or not? You never said, just dissed a post of mine without stating your own position assd top which team was getting the raw deal. Not the first time.

 

[Scriptor]

Also the lower producing 21 games were at the start of the season.

That's my point in underlining that the young player, growing into his frame, kept getting better and better as the season wore on.

While we can't arbitrarily just remove those initial 21 games from the equation, their value in analyzing the player's performance should be weighted properly.

 

[Mrb1p]

Short tournaments don't matter now…

This is the argument brought forth by the same people who have been crying, and will again in a few months, about the Montreal Canadiens needing to send Slafkovsky to the WJC to play for Slovakia.

The same folks who fawn over player’s production at these short tournaments.

And I'm the one who needs to “do better”. I'll remember three arguments come Xmas time during the WJC. We’ll see how meaningless short tournaments are then.

This is nasty, nasty work by some of yall.

False dillema at best.

On a pure sample size, league play has always been more important to evaluate a player.

Player evaluation and player development are two very different things. Sending a player to the WJC or the AHL falls in the latter, using a short tournament to justify picking a guy first overall while everyone who watched him in Liiga said they were cautious about him is player evaluation.

Go read the opinion of Finnish posters on the prospect board from september 2021 to april 2022, nobody thought he was NHL ready. Then the tournaments happened and history was made.

It turns out league play was a more accurate representation of his NHL readiness, afterall.

Also the lower producing 21 games were at the start of the season.


Were you high on Adam Boqvist or not? You never said, just dissed a post of mine without stating your own position assd top which team was getting the raw deal. Not the first time.

I put out a draft list every year and I put out an affiliated prospect list every year. I make my opinions known to literally everyone.

 

[Scriptor]

False dillema at best.

On a pure sample size, league play has always been more important to evaluate a player.

Player evaluation and player development are two very different things. Sending a player to the WJC or the AHL falls in the latter, using a short tournament to justify picking a guy first overall while everyone who watched him in Liiga said they were cautious about him is player evaluation.

Go read the opinion of Finnish posters on the prospect board from september 2021 to april 2022, nobody thought he was NHL ready. Then the tournaments happened and history was made.

It turns out league play was a more accurate representation of his NHL readiness, afterall.

Purely statistical analysis is as flawed as the point one is trying to make when analyzing the data. After that, random opinions of a player's game can be plucked out from a huge basin of opinions to support one's view.

"See, that ONE guy's opinion was right all along. It's not just my faulty assumptions based on a purely statistical approach to judging a player I would rather we had not picked."

Unfortunately, the quoted portion of my post is exactly the impression I'm getting from your posts, right or wrong.

Like a good poll, my impressions are right 19 out of 20 times, four out of five times, or, basically, I could be wrong.

 

[417]

False dillema at best.

You're just saying things to say things right now lol

On a pure sample size, league play has always been more important to evaluate a player

I'll remember this come Xmas.

Player evaluation and player development are two very different things. Sending a player to the WJC or the AHL falls in the latter, using a short tournament to justify picking a guy first overall while everyone who watched him in Liiga said they were cautious about him is player evaluation.

More irony: believing the Montreal Canadiens picked him exclusively because of his performance at the Olympics..

Then coming on here and telling others they're being intellectually dishonest with their post.

Nasty, nasty work going on today.

Go read the opinion of Finnish posters on the prospect board from september 2021 to april 2022, nobody thought he was NHL ready. Then the tournaments happened and history was made.

It turns out league play was a more accurate representation of his NHL readiness, afterall.

I couldn't careless about opinions from September 2021…its irrelevant today and has nothing to do with what I engaged that poster with.

He was trying to downplay his performance at that tournament because of the quality of competition he faced.

None of this has anything to do with that.

 

[Mrb1p]

Purely statistical analysis is as flawed as the point one is trying to make when analyzing the data. After that, random opinions of a player's game can be plucked out from a huge basin of opinions to support one's view.

"See, that ONE guy's opinion was right all along. It's not just my faulty assumptions based on a purely statistical approach to judging a player I would rather we had not picked."

Unfortunately, the quoted portion of my post is exactly the impression I'm getting from your posts, right or wrong.

Like a good poll, my impressions are right 19 out of 20 times, four out of five times, or, basically, I could be wrong.

What makes you say Im basing my opinion on stats?

Thats also a double-edged sword, on one hand Slaf didnt produce in Liiga over a large sample size (normalized a bit more, but still small to be reliable) and on the other hand he produced a lot while relying on insane PDO stats and shooting % in a short tournament.

The best way would have been to watch him play, which I did and which said finnish posters (emphasis on plural) also did. Its safe to say that none of the persons Im debating this with in this thread have done so, as the number of draft thread poster is very small.

 

[MON4NHLTOR4MLB]

Slaf sucks still. Doesn’t get open space, the time he uses his shot it’s a muffin or wide of the net, he’s a good passer when it’s not in their skates I’ll give him that and using his body, skating a bit better but there’s just no “elite” in there. He’ll be a 3rd liner 45 point max player

 

[BaseballCoach]

I put out a draft list every year and I put out an affiliated prospect list every year. I make my opinions known to literally everyone.

REPEATING - Were you high on Adam Boqvist or not? You never said, just dissed a post of mine (Evans for Boqvist) without stating your own position as to which team was getting the raw deal. Not the first time.

Care to say why and for whom the idea was so ridiculous that you dissed it like that?