Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[morhilane]

For all of those who are defending Slaf.

You know eventually he will be shit on by the media and he'll be gone in exchange of some carrots.

If you care about his own good so much, you would want him to develop in the AHL asap

Having watched the 3rd period of the Rocket game last night, it's the entire NHL team that should be relegated and the AHL club brought up and then I realized that player who was always at the right place and doing amazing passes was Armia...

The AHL is the development leagues for prospects who can't hack it on the bottom pair D or 4th line in the NHL and the opposition concede so much ice that the rink looks 2x the size of an NHL one. Slaf of last year should have been send down after a few NHL games, but this year I don't think it would achieve anything. He would still have to adapt to the much faster (execution) and tighter NHL once brought up.

 

[Max2]

I look at players like Byfield and Lafreniere...top picks who struggled in their first couple of years and were prematurely labelled as busts, but are now coming along nicely.

Not all top picks explode out of the gates.Some take a few years to get going. I see Slaffer in this mould. A guy who is still adapting to how much time and space he has to work with and getting used to using his big body to make plays on the smaller ice.

Every now and then amongst the mistakes, you catch brief glimpses of how dominant he can potentially be in a few years.I am not worried about this guy at all. Kid is 19 and has played 59 NHL games, lol

 

[Adam Michaels]

I look at players like Byfield and Lafreniere...top picks who struggled in their first couple of years and were prematurely labelled as busts, but are now coming along nicely.

Not all top picks explode out of the gates.Some take a few years to get going. I see Slaffer in this mould. A guy who is still adapting to how much time and space he has to work with and getting used to using his big body to make plays on the smaller ice.

Every now and then amongst the mistakes, you catch brief glimpses of how dominant he can potentially be in a few years.I am not worried about this guy at all. Kid is 19 and has played 59 NHL games, lol

True that Laf and Byfield are good examples of high picks taking a few years before getting going this year. Not every top pick comes in guns ablazing. Byfield is more of a good example for me because he's also a player who already had a big frame when he was drafted. And it takes a little longer for 17-to-19 year olds to grow into those big bodies.

Byfield did play AHL games in his first 3 seasons. The last two years, he played more NHL games than he did AHL games, so most of his development has been at the NHL level.

 

[Max2]

True that Laf and Byfield are good examples of high picks taking a few years before getting going this year. Not every top pick comes in guns ablazing. Byfield is more of a good example for me because he's also a player who already had a big frame when he was drafted. And it takes a little longer for 17-to-19 year olds to grow into those big bodies.

Byfield did play AHL games in his first 3 seasons. The last two years, he played more NHL games than he did AHL games, so most of his development has been at the NHL level.

c'est vrai!

 

[cave troll]

I look at players like Byfield and Lafreniere...top picks who struggled in their first couple of years and were prematurely labelled as busts, but are now coming along nicely.

Not all top picks explode out of the gates.Some take a few years to get going. I see Slaffer in this mould. A guy who is still adapting to how much time and space he has to work with and getting used to using his big body to make plays on the smaller ice.

Every now and then amongst the mistakes, you catch brief glimpses of how dominant he can potentially be in a few years.I am not worried about this guy at all. Kid is 19 and has played 59 NHL games, lol

Laferniere scored 7 goals on 24 shots and is on unreal 29,2% shooting percentage.
Caufield would have scored around 20 goals already with that percentage - he is on 7,7%
Once the stats start to normalize Laf will end up on 40-50 pts season instead od 60-65.
He is on a steady progression, but that kind of progression is OK for a good 2nd round prospect. Not 1OA.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

True that Laf and Byfield are good examples of high picks taking a few years before getting going this year. Not every top pick comes in guns ablazing. Byfield is more of a good example for me because he's also a player who already had a big frame when he was drafted. And it takes a little longer for 17-to-19 year olds to grow into those big bodies.

Byfield did play AHL games in his first 3 seasons. The last two years, he played more NHL games than he did AHL games, so most of his development has been at the NHL level.

That's not how development works. It's not a question of a player playing X amount of time in one league or another. He might've had more development in less time spent in the A, for the simple reason he was able to learn what he needs to do at a lower pace. Once those habits and play reading are adapted to that speed of play, making the jump to a quicker game is less troublesome. Byfield benefited from his time in the AHL and that's point. He didn't spend all his time trying to adapt to the highest level without a buffer. Also, he was not a Euro player who also had to adapt to smaller ice.

 

[Adam Michaels]

That's not how development works. It's not a question of a player playing X amount of time in one league or another. He might've had more development in less time spent in the A, for the simple reason he was able to learn what he needs to do at a lower pace. Once those habits and play reading are adapted to that speed of play, making the jump to a quicker game is less troublesome. Byfield benefited from his time in the AHL and that's point. He didn't spend all his time trying to adapt to the highest level without a buffer. Also, he was not a Euro player who also had to adapt to smaller ice.

Slaf has improved since last year. So it's working in Slaf's case to learn solely at the NHL level. The only thing that hasn't improved is the production. But that doesn't mean if he goes to the AHL, he will suddenly come back to the NHL and start producing at will. That will come.

But there is noticeable improvements in his overall game. And for a player coming from Europe and adapting to the smaller ice and the quicker NHL pace, it should be praised. He's far from a finished product. But the product so far in 2023-24 is superior to the product in 2022-23.

 

[morhilane]

Slaf has improved since last year. So it's working in Slaf's case to learn at the NHL level. The only thing that hasn't improved is the production. But that doesn't mean if he goes to the AHL, he will suddenly come back to the NHL and start producing at will. That will come.

But there is noticeable improvements in his overall game.

One thing to say here, the Habs coaching staff are dedicated to develop Slafkovksy. It's not just playing him at the NHL level and asking him to swim. Just yesterday during practice, Slaf had a 1v1 session with Nicholas and then another session with just him and MSL.

 

[Deebs]

Slaf has improved since last year. So it's working in Slaf's case to learn solely at the NHL level. The only thing that hasn't improved is the production. But that doesn't mean if he goes to the AHL, he will suddenly come back to the NHL and start producing at will. That will come.

But there is noticeable improvements in his overall game.

I do agree there has been an improvement since last year. This year he can sometimes make the routine plays, actually uses his body at times, his conditioning is better, he's finding open spaces more often, etc...

I still feel he isn't ready to be an effective, productive, everyday NHL player as of right now and would look great playing alongside Farrell and Roy at the moment but it's not happening, so we continue with the current plan and hope his progress continues.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Slaf has improved since last year. So it's working in Slaf's case to learn solely at the NHL level.

That's not what I would call "working". Small improvements doesn't mean it's ideal. I have a firm and knowledge-based conviction that the process would be quicker in the AHL.

I have to believe that there is a raison d'être for avoiding the A, whether it is MSL wanting to monitor him closely, or they feel his personal life would be less prone to derailment if they keep him close. I'm sure they have good reasons, but it remains the least likely path for upwards progression.

 

[ReHabs]

You can’t be a tankophile and also state you’d be happy with a 50pt winger in his prime with the 1OA pick. No, that doesn’t jive. That’s incoherent.

 

[417]

Lame exchange granted but you did say this when @Jaynki said the ahl was not a developmental league.

That's not quite how that went, @Jaynki said that the AHL is a league where replacement-level players play, that is factual and that's what I agreed with, nowhere did I write what you are or he suggested I wrote.

What's to get annoyed about with that statement? Lol

It was a lame exchange, let's just leave it at that.

 

[Lshap]

I would consider 15-20 points to be missing the mark, yes. If we asked this question before the season began, 20 points would not be matching anyone’s expectation.

Now we seem afraid to call a spade a spade so that we can stay entrenched in our view point. Before Slaf, it was almost universally accepted here that the NHL is NOT a development league. Now, because we’ve taken this approach many are singing a different tune. Tbh, it’s bizarre. Posters that have always been for the slow and methodical approach are advocating for an 18-19 year old who is a step behind the play to be learning/developing in the toughest league in the world. MSL is some sort of god apparently and all that we thought was true previously is true no more.

I agree 15-20 pts is far less than what we were hoping for in his first season. However, again, the real issue isn't where he is at 19, but where he will be once he enters his prime. If he becomes a solid top-six forward in four/five years, does it really matter that he was slow out of the gate?

The rest of your post is aimed at people's reactions to Slaf, rather than Slaf himself. Sure, there are some wild disagreements on our board about Slafkovsky, our coaches and scouts, the role of the NHL versus the AHL, etc. None of that addresses the main point: Slafkovsky will either develop well or he won't, and the only thing we know for sure is that we DON'T know which it will be.

Massively.

A 1OA (even in a “weak draft”) is not meant to start so slow. This trajectory will be abysmal and much likelier to flatline than improve. There is value in expediency and the clock starts ticking toward their ELC and UFA from when they start in the NHL. A top dragged forward is meant to be an impact player.

It's a very slow start, no question. I thought he should've been sent down last season and I said the same through the first few weeks of this season. The last couple of game have given me a glimmer of concrete hope, so I'll shut up and see if the kid can build on his modest improvements. I don't think his future is dictated by what we've seen so far.

I've been crystal clear that the ultimate job of an NHL winger is to produce points. At some point, the bar will be set higher than hints and signs and "If he had better linemates". He'll be judged on goals and assists, like every other winger. But right now, measuring Slaf's progress by hypotheticals is fair... if not absolute. I still expect SOME production this year, followed by exponential growth in production the following year or two.

As stated above, it's not about where he is at 19, it's where he'll be in his prime.

That's a nice progression for some late 1st round or 2nd round pick.
1OA forward who dwells at 45-50 pts after 4 seasons in NHL will start to be compared with worst 1OA forwards in history.

If Slafkovsky's prime ends up being 45-50 pts, it will be a blown opportunity for this org, even if 45-50 points is decent. It's fair for fans to expect a bonafide top-six forward when gifted a 1OA. 2022 may have been a best-guess draft, but it's high time our scouts were the ones making the best guess.

 

[Andy]

You can’t be a tankophile and also state you’d be happy with a 50pt winger in his prime with the 1OA pick. No, that doesn’t jive. That’s incoherent.

This is not so simple and depends on the draft. 2022 was long touted as a draft with not many high end forwards.

No a 50-60 point player is usually not worthy of 1OA pick, but it also depends how good the rest of the players in the draft are.

Look at 2012, the best forwards are Hertl, Forsberg, Teravainen. No single superstar forward in the draft. The best it produced was some quality top 6 guys, lower-tier first line players.

What if Slaf ends up as the best forward from that draft class, but only produces 50-60 points a season. Is it a failure? At some point, an organization can't shape the pool of eligible draftees. So, if Slaf ends up as the best forward from the draft, then he was worthy to go 1OA regardless of his point production. And we won't know if this is the case for many years.

The issue with a small fraction of posters in this thread is that they want to be right about Slaf and the draft right now after less than 2 full seasons of play. We won't know how things end up for the next couple of years.

People will say it's a cope out, but it's just a simple fact: it's too early to tell. Way too early to tell what's going on.

If Slafkovsky's prime ends up being 45-50 pts, it will be a blown opportunity for this org, even if 45-50 points is decent. It's fair for fans to expect a bonafide top-six forward when gifted a 1OA. 2022 may have been a best-guess draft, but it's high time our scouts were the ones making the best guess.

It's only a blown opportunity if the forwards drafted in a similar range end up as better offensively players. If the best the 2022 draft produces is a top 6 forward, then there really isn't much an organization can do.

 

[Lshap]

It's only a blown opportunity if the forwards drafted in a similar range end up as better offensively players. If the best the 2022 draft produces is a top 6 forward, then there really isn't much an organization can do.

I'm pretty sure most of us didn't care if we drafted a forward or defenceman in 2022. We simply wanted the best player. If Slafkovsky ends up being the best as a 45-50 point forward, it will represent an extraordinarily weak draft.

Even 2012 had Teraveinan and Forsberg who became 60 pt. forwards. You just know someone from the 2022 class will reach that level, maybe more. I know it's not an exact science, but can't Montreal find the best guy for once?

 

[Andy]

I'm pretty sure most of us didn't care if we drafted a forward or defenceman in 2022. We simply wanted the best player. If Slafkovsky ends up being the best as a 45-50 point forward, it will represent an extraordinarily weak draft.

Even 2012 had Teraveinan and Forsberg who became 60 pt. forwards. You just know someone from the 2022 class will reach that level, maybe more. I know it's not an exact science, but can't Montreal find the best guy for once?

We just don't know. Even the idea of claiming that Slaf will be a 45-50 point forward is just a guess that isn't based on much info right now.

Whether Slaf will have been worth the draft placement will not be known for many, many years.

Even this whole talk of 45-50 points vs 60 points is so simplistic. Would you take a 45-50 point player who impacts the game like Danault or a 55-60 point player who impacts the game like Max Domi? I know I choose Danault every single time.

The fact is we just do not know where anything will end up. For me it's all about progression. Slafkovsky has progressed very very well compared to last season. And other than that 3-4 game stretch he's played well all season without any major regression in play. The team wants him next to Marty and to me that makes sense for now.

We're all starving for a star, but that doesnt justify jumping to conclusions. This man's career has only just begun and anyone pretending to know his future is just spewing hot air.

Right now, he's looked like an nhler player and showed flashes of high skill. His overall trend is positive.

 

[Habit11]

Stu Cowan: Canadiens hope Shooter Tutor work pays off against Vegas

Practice devoted almost entirely to shooting drills with Juraj Slafkovsky getting help from director of player development Adam Nicholas.

montrealgazette.com

Article talks about MSL's thoughts on his progression and Slaf working with Adam Nicholas.

 

[morhilane]

I'm pretty sure most of us didn't care if we drafted a forward or defenceman in 2022. We simply wanted the best player. If Slafkovsky ends up being the best as a 45-50 point forward, it will represent an extraordinarily weak draft.

Even 2012 had Teraveinan and Forsberg who became 60 pt. forwards. You just know someone from the 2022 class will reach that level, maybe more. I know it's not an exact science, but can't Montreal find the best guy for once?

Nothing stop the 2022 from being an extraordinarily weak draft. You get one of those about every decades and the scouting community did warn that it was a weak draft in term of top talent.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

You can’t be a tankophile and also state you’d be happy with a 50pt winger in his prime with the 1OA pick. No, that doesn’t jive. That’s incoherent.

why not? If the guy is a 50 point player that just means we need to TANK MORE

 

[Sasha Orlov]

why not? If the guy is a 50 point player that just means we need to TANK MORE

Getting 1st overall is basically a Stanley Cup so idk why we would ever try to win again tbh

 

[nhlfan9191]

Nothing stop the 2022 from being an extraordinarily weak draft. You get one of those about every decades and the scouting community did warn that it was a weak draft in term of top talent.

To be fair, we don’t know if 2022 is going to be a weak draft. It’s not even a year and a half old. For all we know, it could be the scouts projections that end up being the only weak part because of all the variables Covid brought.

 

[Lshap]

We just don't know. Even the idea of claiming that Slaf will be a 45-50 point forward is just a guess that isn't based on much info right now.

Whether Slaf will have been worth the draft placement will not be known for many, many years.

Even this whole talk of 45-50 points vs 60 points is so simplistic. Would you take a 45-50 point player who impacts the game like Danault or a 55-60 point player who impacts the game like Max Domi? I know I choose Danault every single time.

The fact is we just do not know where anything will end up. For me it's all about progression. Slafkovsky has progressed very very well compared to last season. And other than that 3-4 game stretch he's played well all season without any major regression in play. The team wants him next to Marty and to me that makes sense for now.

We're all starving for a star, but that doesnt justify jumping to conclusions. This man's career has only just begun and anyone pretending to know his future is just spewing hot air.

Right now, he's looked like an nhler player and showed flashes of high skill. His overall trend is positive.

Yes, all point predictions are guesses and I'm making no conclusions about Slaf. I'm just trying to keep the conversation from spiralling completely into vague hypotheticals. 45-50 points is a rough measurement for solid middle-six production. 60+ is top-six. 20 pts is my personal minimum expectation for Slaf's second season (taking into account his half first season). Development may be intangible, but impact on the ice must take measurable form. Not right now, maybe not next year, but eventually.

I have no idea where Slafkovsky will end up on that spectrum of success, but let's acknowledge that he's not a defensive specialist nor a C. His success will depend on the goals and assists he generates.

 

[Lshap]

Nothing stop the 2022 from being an extraordinarily weak draft. You get one of those about every decades and the scouting community did warn that it was a weak draft in term of top talent.

If 2022 produces no 1st pair D or 1st line forward, so be it. I have no plans to yell at the universe for not delivering us a superstar.

But if there is a superstar we passed over, I will yell at Habs management.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Laferniere scored 7 goals on 24 shots and is on unreal 29,2% shooting percentage.
Caufield would have scored around 20 goals already with that percentage - he is on 7,7%
Once the stats start to normalize Laf will end up on 40-50 pts season instead od 60-65.
He is on a steady progression, but that kind of progression is OK for a good 2nd round prospect. Not 1OA.

Why not? If both he and Slaf eventually reach their potential, but take a longer time doing so, that's somehow not okay? It's only acceptable if they reach their pinnacle in 2-3 years and not 4-6 or whatever arbitrary standard you're using as justification to keep complaining?

 

[cave troll]

Why not? If both he and Slaf eventually reach their potential, but take a longer time doing so, that's somehow not okay? It's only acceptable if they reach their pinnacle in 2-3 years and not 4-6 or whatever arbitrary standard you're using as justification to keep complaining?

What arbitrary standard you talk about?
I was talking about 1OA picks. There are no arbitrary standards about them. They become franchise players or top NHL players or they are considered busts.
Laferniere was given a 2 years contract after ELC. His own club decided he was worth a 2 years long second chance for 2,325 mil dollars. They don't even seen him as a long term lock but just a guy who was given another chance. A 2 years "do or die" bridge.
If you think he's having some kind of break out, just count the number of his shots. 24. Like Slaf. He converted 30% of them which is unsustainable. It's 3 times bigger than league average.
Things are simple. You draft a high pick and he doesn't deliver in 4,5 years, he becomes relegated to bottom lines or traded away cause there are new prospects ready to take his place.