Player Discussion Juraj Slafkovsky, the high offensive potential edition.

[Guy Larose]

This obviously only happens when you're getting shut out for a month straight before being injured for the rest of the season. It's a very necessary part of the development process, succeeding at the lower levels is bad actually.



The only person in this thread who is even preparing to call him a bust is @Jaynki . That's what he'll call him if things don't work out (another failed pick), and he's said as much in this thread already.

WhiteKnightwhateverthefck has been as well...but he's the king of bad takes anyway. There's been quite a few actually.

 

[junyab]

Slaf is big, and big guys take longer to develop before they're really ready to be productive NHL players, so let's throw him into the NHL immediately.

That makes a lot of sense.

So you're saying you know more than MSL and Montreal management?

That makes a lot of sense.

It doesn't matter where he would play, it means 400 professional games to produce at the NHL level. He may have scored slightly more in the AHL but does that mean his development is better? It doesn't. It would only make guys like you to say "nice, he has 45 pts, he's developing well". If you're determining success purely on productivity you have zero clue what it means to develop.

Answer this - would he develop more with 100 AHL practices with AHL coaches or 100 NHL practices with NHL coaches?

 

[OnTheRun]

This obviously only happens when you're getting shut out for a month straight before being injured for the rest of the season. It's a very necessary part of the development process, succeeding at the lower levels is bad actually.



The only person in this thread who is even preparing to call him a bust is @Jaynki . That's what he'll call him if things don't work out (another failed pick), and he's said as much in this thread already.

If Slaf has some self-awareness in his game, he should have learned a few things this year.

The fans make a big deal of his 14 games pointless streak (it's not unfair, because expectations and all) but the coach didn't care that much, Slaf was averaging more ice time during those 14 games than in the 14 games prior. This is how a low pressure environment in the NHL look like, MSL did not cares about immediate results.

Was everything that happened this year necessary from Slaf development? No, not really. But putting up points in the AHL isn't necessary either. So it's not exactly the missed opportunity people make it to be.

 

[NotProkofievian]

So you're saying you know more than MSL and Montreal management?

That makes a lot of sense.

It doesn't matter where he would play, it means 400 professional games to produce at the NHL level. He may have scored slightly more in the AHL but does that mean his development is better? It doesn't. It would only make guys like you to say "nice, he has 45 pts, he's developing well". If you're determining success purely on productivity you have zero clue what it means to develop.

Answer this - would he develop more with 100 AHL practices with AHL coaches or 100 NHL practices with NHL coaches?

I literally just posted a quote from Stevie Y that agrees with me, I don't know if you know but he's kind of a big deal.

 

[NotProkofievian]

If Slaf has some self-awareness in his game, he should have learned a few things this year.

The fans make a big deal of his 14 games pointless streak (it's not unfair, because expectations and all) but the coach didn't care that much, Slaf was averaging more ice time during those 14 games than in the 14 games prior. This is how a low pressure environment in the NHL look like, MSL did not cares about immediate results.

Was everything that happened this year necessary from Slaf development? No, not really. But putting up points in the AHL isn't necessary either. So it's not exactly the missed opportunity people make it to be.

Funny you mention it, but I made a habit of asking hfboards in the PGTs what, specifically, Slaf learned from playing that game. I did it like 7 or 8 times. I never once got a coherent response.

A lot of these games Slaf wasn't even getting a look on net. I think it's reasonable to conclude that he wasn't exactly honing his offensive game at the time. His last point, for example, was a tip in before going off for a change.

 

[junyab]

I literally just posted a quote from Stevie Y that agrees with me, I don't know if you know but he's kind of a big deal.

Yep, he is. And he has an opinion, but what I provided was a counter argument that was based on historical evidence. Soooo.

 

[Jaynki]

The only person in this thread who is even preparing to call him a bust is @Jaynki . That's what he'll call him if things don't work out (another failed pick), and he's said as much in this thread already.

I believe he will be a legit star for us. I am S Bah-like high on him. I think you are confusing me with rehabs. This being said, if he bust, he will be a bust, no?

What will you call it if he bust?

 

[OnTheRun]

Funny you mention it, but I made a habit of asking hfboards in the PGTs what, specifically, Slaf learned from playing that game. I did it like 7 or 8 times. I never once got a coherent response.

A lot of these games Slaf wasn't even getting a look on net. I think it's reasonable to conclude that he wasn't exactly honing his offensive game at the time. His last point, for example, was a tip in before going off for a change.

Slaf knows how to play hockey, he's not at a stage where he needs to learn the basics on a game-to-game basis.

This year he was a kid overwhelmed by the NHL speed, but he had the tendency to do the right play in the rare situation where he had time and space. Through experience he will reach a point where the game slow down for him and he will also learn how to create his own space, and this is when his game will take a real step forward.

 

[NORiculous]

If you're determining success purely on productivity you have zero clue what it means to develop.

That is a pretty lame argument… at best.

Does Slaf need to ONLY work on offense? No, and I don’t see anyone saying this.

To develop something you have to work at it, though. No work, no progress.

Does Slaf need to work at a bunch of stuff outside of offense? Yes.

But Slaf still needs to works on offense too… and he did almost nothing of that in the last season.

Slaf also wasn’t sent down for the wrong reasons. Don’t believe me? Go watch the press conference where Hughes answers that question.

Just to put Slaf’s ice time in perspective… he played against very easy toughness of opposition and had trouble following. If you compare all Habs (ice time vs toughness of opposition vs. Ability to drive possession, etc) Slafkovsky was BY FAR the worse Habs last year.

You can argue that it’s not the full picture but it still shows that he sucked in almost everything. That is called being in a league that is too strong for you.

If you add the fact that he kept his confidence up during that time… that to me doesn’t show « great character »… it shows the light is dim.

We can see WAY too many signs that something wasn’t right.

Going back to that press conference where Hughes gave a complete insane response as to why they kept him up...

If a guy with that much hockey experience (Hughes) gives an answer like that… all I can say is wow. It’s worse then the crying shit show Woodcroft gave a few days ago.

 

[Jaynki]

Just to put Slaf’s ice time in perspective… he played against very easy toughness of opposition and had trouble following. If you compare all Habs (ice time vs toughness of opposition vs. Ability to drive possession, etc) Slafkovsky was BY FAR the worse Habs last year.

I would like to see those data

 

[Archijerej]

An old Russian wisdom says that player playing bad is not good.

 

[OnTheRun]

That is a pretty lame argument… at best.

Does Slaf need to ONLY work on offense? No, and I don’t see anyone saying this.

To develop something you have to work at it, though. No work, no progress.

Does Slaf need to work at a bunch of stuff outside of offense? Yes.

But Slaf still needs to works on offense too… and he did almost nothing of that in the last season.

Slaf also wasn’t sent down for the wrong reasons. Don’t believe me? Go watch the press conference where Hughes answers that question.

Just to put Slaf’s ice time in perspective… he played against very easy toughness of opposition and had trouble following. If you compare all Habs (ice time vs toughness of opposition vs. Ability to drive possession, etc) Slafkovsky was BY FAR the worse Habs last year.

You can argue that it’s not the full picture but it still shows that he sucked in almost everything. That is called being in a league that is too strong for you.

If you add the fact that he kept his confidence up during that time… that to me doesn’t show « great character »… it shows the light is dim.

We can see WAY too many signs that something wasn’t right.

Going back to that press conference where Hughes gave a complete insane response as to why they kept him up...

If a guy with that much hockey experience (Hughes) gives an answer like that… all I can say is wow. It’s worse then the crying shit show Woodcroft gave a few days ago.

For the wrong reason according to you... of course.

The idea of keeping him in a low pressure environment in the NHL where he doesn't even need to be the best player on his line as opposed to the AHL where he kinda need to the best player of the Rocket and arguably one of the best player of the league is not without merit.

His confidence is fine because he knows and understand what the org wants from him at this stage of his career and the org supported him so far, not because he is oblivious to his achievement.

And seriously if he is the precious little flower whose confidence get destroyed after less than 4 months in the NHL, as some people make him to be. He needs to be traded, yesterday, you cannot work with something that brittle at that level.

 

[NORiculous]

I would like to see those data

Look up advanced stats.

 

[NORiculous]

The idea of keeping him in a low pressure environment in the NHL where he doesn't even need to be the best player on his line as opposed to the AHL where he kinda need to the best player of the Rocket and arguably one of the best player of the league is not without merit.

Protecting a 1st overall… from himself? From being exposed? From what?

 

[OnTheRun]

Protecting a 1st overall… from himself? From being exposed? From what?

Protecting? No. It's about not putting unnecessary pressure on the kid when you have an alternative.

 

[NORiculous]

Protecting? No. It's about not putting unnecessary pressure on the kid when you have an alternative.

Did you hear what Hughes said when he was asked if they thought about sending him down?

I call that protecting and it is far from a reach call.

 

[OnTheRun]

Did you hear what Hughes said when he was asked if they thought about sending him down?

I call that protecting and it is far from a reach call.

You can call it whatever you want. since you failed to understand what Hughes meant when he said it... It doesn't matter what you call it.

 

[junyab]

Did you hear what Hughes said when he was asked if they thought about sending him down?

I call that protecting and it is far from a reach call.

He said he'd rather have Slaf under MSL's wing, learning to play the game how they want him to play it, and not be sent down where the focus would be only on scoring.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

 

[417]

I saw the press conference. Those were his words.

Edit: just to clarify we are talking about the same thing. He was asked if he thought of sending Slaf down to the AHL.

He said: Yes and then said the quote I gave previously.

Ok but you're ignoring the context, it was just in the frame of how the spotlight would be just as bright in Laval for him as it is in Montreal and maybe even more because the expectations would be higher (given the competition would be inferior).

 

[NORiculous]

Ok but you're ignoring the context, it was just in the frame of how the spotlight would be just as bright in Laval for him as it is in Montreal and maybe even more because the expectations would be higher (given the competition would be inferior).

No that’s not the context.

First off, no matter how you want to look at it, MTL has more pressure and spotlight then Laval. The only way Laval would have more spotlight is if Mario Lemieux comes out of retirement and plays a game for the Rocket.

Then, Slaf knows the AHL is easier, like everyone else.

Which brings us to the quote.

Hughes said « Slaf would expect to produce because he is here [AHL]. What happens if he [Slaf] doesn’t… »

That is the reason he didn’t send him down!!!

That was his answer!

Trying to protect Slaf from himself or from something related to producing or not in a lesser league…. Which a #1 OVERALL should be able do to…. ( Otherwise, why is he 1st overall!) is a little crazy. Because a 1st overall, yes should work on a bunch of stuff…, but offence is one of them!

If you think about it, the offence and the degree to which it translates to the NHL is what separates the top players from the others!!! Why not work on that skill at least a little!!

Crazy. That is what it is.

 

[NORiculous]

You can call it whatever you want. since you failed to understand what Hughes meant when he said it... It doesn't matter what you call it.

Says you?

So your argument is « your wrong and I am right and that is that »? lol

 

[NORiculous]

He said he'd rather have Slaf under MSL's wing, learning to play the game how they want him to play it, and not be sent down where the focus would be only on scoring.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

Right.

I have never seen a guy, 1st overall nonetheless, be protected IN the NHL while getting smashed in all the advanced stats possible and having very little development work of his offensive tools because the league is too quick/good/fast for him.

 

[Destopcorner]

For the wrong reason according to you... of course.

The idea of keeping him in a low pressure environment in the NHL where he doesn't even need to be the best player on his line as opposed to the AHL where he kinda need to the best player of the Rocket and arguably one of the best player of the league is not without merit.

His confidence is fine because he knows and understand what the org wants from him at this stage of his career and the org supported him so far, not because he is oblivious to his achievement.

And seriously if he is the precious little flower whose confidence get destroyed after less than 4 months in the NHL, as some people make him to be. He needs to be traded, yesterday, you cannot work with something that brittle at that level.

What the hell are you talking about? Nobody would expect him to be the best player of the rocket and one of the best player in the AHL at 18... Where are those expectations coming from and how is it a favorable argument to play him in a league he can't compete in?

Yzerman knows what's up and always say as long as you don't dominate a lower tier league, there is something to be learn. It's not sorcery, just logic.

 

[Sorinth]

What the hell are you talking about? Nobody would expect him to be the best player of the rocket and one of the best player in the AHL at 18... Where are those expectations coming from and how is it a favorable argument to play him in a league he can't compete in?

Yzerman knows what's up and always say as long as you don't dominate a lower tier league, there is something to be learn. It's not sorcery, just logic.

I would imagine it comes from all the people crapping on him for never dominating a league, they would no doubt say a 1st OA player should dominate the AHL.

 

[NORiculous]

I would imagine it comes from all the people crapping on him for never dominating a league, they would no doubt say a 1st OA player should dominate the AHL.

Eventually…yes he should, not at 18. That is why it is called… learning to dominate.

Superstars do dominate at 18 but Slaf is a weak draft so he would need more time