Value of: Julius Honka to the Oilers

[BB88]

You really think Faulk and Eklbad arent 1D?

I dont know what to say to you then

Yes, I've watched every game this season both Carolina and Florida have played.
In the past Ekblad hasn't been tested like a true #1D and this year he's had a rough start to the season, you'll find Florida fans say the same, just check their threads.
For Faulk he hasn't played defense at high enough level to be said as a true #1D and some Carolina fans prefer Slavin.

I really like both and their potential. But I can't today say they are elite #1D's.
I think there are 10-13/15 elite #1D's, I consider them to be somewhere in the 16-25 range, they can be at the end of season.

 

[Rebuilt]

go look up the rules if you want, the point is Honka is 100% guaranteed exempt. Ill allow you to use google and figure it out for yourself. Or just take my word

No I went and looked it up already. I stand corrected. I didnt know there were funky rules for AHL when I was told AHL counted as pro.

Thanks for that. Well in that case we could take Honka but we arent giving up a core piece for it. What is it you want in return?

 

[KarmaPolice]

This is your third story. First was "Is Honka a disappointment?" then came "i know nothing about the AHL or Honka" and now "people are mad that I'm asking questions." It's silly to be so defensive and all this protesting your innocence makes you seem more and more guilty.

An 18 year old defenseman in the AHL who puts up 31 points is not a disappointment. A 19 year old defenseman who goes 44 in 73 AHL games is not a disappointment and going 9 so far in 8 is not a disappointment. I don't think anybody thinks you are stupid and just stumbled on to our top prospect by accident. If we stipulate that you are clever instead, then you can connect the dots and there's no need to dance around what you are about and no need to get all defensive when somebody points it out.

I never said he was a disappointment in any of those instances, so now you're stooping so low as to put words in my mouth. Desperate measures, I guess. I never have claimed to just "stumble" upon him. I said that I knew he was a highly thought of prospect; a RHD; and a guy who's good on the PP -- things the Oilers need. So that's why I was interested. Now what I DIDN'T know, is why he's back in the AHL again this year. When I noticed he was, I thought maybe the Dallas brass was not very high on him, or whatever. I saw that maybe -- MAYBE -- there was a chance he could be traded for. Hence, I started this thread. Now what I haven't had answered is why Honka is in the AHL this season. I would guess it's because he's not quite ready, but WHICH parts of his game are not quite ready? His defensive game? Or what is it? There's no reason to get all defensive about this. It's a simple question. Geez, lol.

I wasn't the first one to get defensive, so I think you have that backwards.

 

[snipes]

Well in that case we could take Honka but we arent giving up a core piece for it. What is it you want in return?

Yeah, the OP suggesting Nurse is out to lunch. **** that, Nurse has been very solid this year. He's taken massive strides.

Anyways, if we're going after a Dman it's not an unproven small AHLer. We're trying to win now, we'd be looking at proven players.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah, the OP suggesting Nurse is out to lunch. **** that, Nurse has been very solid this year. He's taken massive strides.

Anyways, if we're going after a Dman it's not an unproven small AHLer. We're trying to win now, we'd be looking at proven players.

I said I would CONSIDER Nurse (would have to be a larger deal); I didn't say I would outright do it.

 

[snipes]

I said I would CONSIDER Nurse (would have to be a larger deal); I didn't say I would outright do it.

You would need to give your head a shake if you thought we would move Nurse for that.

Go take a look at Nurses analytics this year and his controlled exit % numbers among other numbers. He's also leading our D in points and crushing it on the PK where we rank 2nd in the NHL in PK%.

Our 6'4 elite skating stud who is starting to establish himself as a legit NHLer isn't going anywhere.

 

[KarmaPolice]

You would need to give your head a shake if you thought we would move Nurse for that.

Go take a look at Nurses analytics this year and his controlled exit % numbers among other numbers. He's also leading our D in points and crushing it on the PK where we rank 2nd in the NHL in PK%.

Our 6'4 elite skating stud who is starting to establish himself as a legit NHLer isn't going anywhere.

Then I guess my consideration would have to be a "no." Does that satisfy you now? It's nothing to get worked up over. We're not the ones making the deals, anyway.

 

[snipes]

Then I guess my consideration would have to be a "no." Does that satisfy you now? It's nothing to get worked up over. We're not the ones making the deals, anyway.

I'm not worked up, just passing on knowledge. You're a fellow Oiler fan, how can you be selling Nurse this short having watched him this year? The last few games he's been our best Dman and the underlying analytics support the eye test.

Nurse is just coming into his own and getting comfortable in the NHL. His ceiling is insanely high with his 6'4 frame, elite skating, and he's a smart kid (OHL Scholastic Player of the Year). We haven't even scratched the surface with him.

Oh yeah, he's also got a nasty streak to him and isn't afraid to hit, ask Marner how it feels to get dropped in the open ice by Nurse.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'm not worked up, just passing on knowledge. You're a fellow Oiler fan, how can you be selling Nurse this short having watched him this year? The last few games he's been our best Dman and the underlying analytics support the eye test.

Nurse is just coming into his own and getting comfortable in the NHL. His ceiling is insanely high with his 6'4 frame, elite skating, and he's a smart kid (OHL Scholastic Player of the Year). We haven't even scratched the surface with him.

Oh yeah, he's also got a nasty streak to him and isn't afraid to hit, ask Marner how it feels to get dropped in the open ice by Nurse.

Oh trust me; I know all these things. He has looked better lately, for sure, and arguably been one of our best D, if not our best, and at only age 21. But we all have our favorites, and I do have my concerns about him, and his limits. But yeah, at this point it would be crazy to trade him 1 for 1. Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Have a good one.

 

[snipes]

Oh trust me; I know all these things. He has looked better lately, for sure, and arguably been one of our best D, if not our best, and at only age 21. But we all have our favorites, and I do have my concerns about him, and his limits. But yeah, at this point it would be crazy to trade him 1 for 1. Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Have a good one.

It's crazy talk to even suggest moving Nurse, especially after what he's shown this year. Nurse is completely off the table, Chia loves Nurse, he's absolutely not moving him. Exclamation point is Nurse being expansion draft exempt.

You have the right idea, we need an offensive RHD upgrade, but Honka isn't that guy. We'll likely have to wait until the trade deadline or later on in the year and move our 1st round pick + to a rebuilding team for what we need. Cheers.

 

[me2]

Reading is hard I guess?

bah, that was posted between when i started and finished my reply. I was off reading some of the links and googling for examples..... (thanks to serp for find that, clarifies it)

 

[cbzblaze]

Nurse isn't going anywhere, management loves him and rightfully so. Someone earlier asked why his Minutes have gone down. Last year oilers were decimated by injuries, especially on the blue line. Forced guys like Nurse who should have been playing in the AHL into heavy NHL minutes, at times playing top pair as a rookie. He struggled, as most would given that scenario. This year he's playing bottom pair and has really impressed.
From the sounds of it, Honka seems to be a good player but I doubt the oilers would be interested. They probably could have made a deal with minnisota for Dumba this offseason but I think the oilers are looking for someone with a bit more experience.

 

[alphahelix]

I think the Oilers could have had some big fish this summer but Nurse was asked for as part of the packages. Do you think Chiarelli is gonna trade a guy with the size, character, pedigree, skating, physicality, and skill of Nurse before he matures? I'd say this guy is quietly one of the top protected assets on the team.

 

[snipes]

I think the Oilers could have had some big fish this summer but Nurse was asked for as part of the packages. Do you think Chiarelli is gonna trade a guy with the size, character, pedigree, skating, physicality, and skill of Nurse before he matures? I'd say this guy is quietly one of the top protected assets on the team.

Chia would move Eberle and Nuge before he'd even think about moving Nurse. Nurse is a core part of our team and he'll be an Oiler for many, many years to come. He is absolutely a top protected asset.

Wait until he fills out into his man body. He'll be 6'4 225-240 pounds with elite skating, intelligence, and a nasty streak. Look out NHL forwards, Nurse is going to **** them up.

Add in the fact that him and McDavid are very close, you have that team bond and family type connection with those guys. Nurse isn't going anywhere.

 

[Halla]

Nurse has better skating, strength, physicality, and he's very good on the PK. He's on the first unit PK team and the Oilers are 2nd in PK%. Nurse has looked good this year, vastly improved.

I don't see how you can say an AHLer has more value when he's a tiny Dman who has never even played an NHL game.

neutral fan here. I feel for stars fans having to put up with comments like this. Honka is gonna be a stud and would have made the oilers roster last year. to infer he isnt good because he hasnt made a cup contender is laughable.

 

[snipes]

neutral fan here. I feel for stars fans having to put up with comments like this. Honka is gonna be a stud and would have made the oilers roster last year. to infer he isnt good because he hasnt made a cup contender is laughable.

No guarantee though, and especially not being slotted into the top 4. He's a good player, but lots of guys tear up the AHL and don't do **** in the NHL.

Sorry, magic beans and "potential" are overplayed now. We're trying to win right now.

 

[dechire]

No guarantee though, and especially not being slotted into the top 4. He's a good player, but lots of guys tear up the AHL and don't do **** in the NHL.

Sorry, magic beans and "potential" are overplayed now. We're trying to win right now.

Okay cool then the Stars will keep their best prospect that was never available anyway and you can look for a more proven player

 

[snipes]

Okay cool then the Stars will keep their best prospect that was never available anyway and you can look for a more proven player

Sounds good. Nurse wouldn't even come close to being on the table either. OP while having good intentions, was misguided.

 

[glovesave_35]

I can't imagine Honka being available. OP seems based on the fact that Honka is in his third year in the AHL but he started there as an 18 year old. He is the opposite of a disappointment.

 

[glovesave_35]

Thanks for that. Well in that case we could take Honka but we arent giving up a core piece for it. What is it you want in return?

Nothing. We want to keep him. Honka could be better than Klingberg.

 

[trick9]

I doubt the Stars would do this.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

The real problem from the Stars perspective is they don't need to deal for a glut of players for one really good one, as is in a typical proposal. If Honka goes, its for a stud at a position of need, a la Bishop. Not sure what they would want from EDM in terms of what would be realistically available.

Nurse is very good, but what does either team gain in more or less a lateral swap?

Stars have some young size on D, which probably won't end up as good as Nurse, but after losing so many vet D, do need that second puck mover starting ASAP to jumpstart their offense and zone break outs, more than they need an upgrade on defensive defensemen right now, given their preferred style of play.

 

[WhatWhat]

I think he is a 1D ON DALLAS, but I dont think he is a true 1D

Here, IMO, are the only true 1D in the NHL (in no order)

Weber
Subban
Suter
Josi
Keith
Doughty
McDonagh
Lindholm (im on the fence here, I would like to see more, but i will list him for now)
Giordano
Faulk
Ekblad
Karlsson
Letang
Ekman Larsson
Pietrangelo
Hedman
Vlasic

So by my count, only 17 TRUE 1dmen in the NHL

And here is where the fine line of 1D stands. If you don't think Klingberg is a 1D then I dont know how you think Faulk or Ekblad are there yet

 

[WhatWhat]

Here is one post from the bold predictions thread (I get it, its a bold prediction, but it was still a statement of where Lindell COULD be this year) from WhatWhat:

Didn't really happen last year so let's go take 2.

Nichuskin score 25-30 on the season.

New prediction Esa Lindell is an undisputed top pair LHD by season end

Here is another one from oconnorsean9 that called lindell a darkhorse calder candidate and pretty much an immediate top 4 dman from the "Which Defensemen have a shot at The Calder in 2017?" thread

Esa Lindell has pro/WCoH experience, will be relied upon to be a top 4 defenseman, and will certainly put up points playing on the Stars. He's a dark horse candidate.

I get he didnt call him a top 2 dman out of the gate, but lets not play ignorant like a top 4 dman immediately in his rookie season at 22 doesnt have the expectation of being a top 2 dman in the near to long term

dude... its a bold prediction. The whole point is to make a prediction that probably has less than 5% chance of happening.

For what its worth Lindell has looked the best next to Klingberg. So him being our top pairing LHD by season end is actually possible

 

[THall4]

Honka is more well rounded. He may not have the size of nurse, but he does play physical, while actually having a better offensive and defensive game. Nurse really only has size on him. Add in that he is the ultra coveted right handed d, I dont see them equally valued.

in the AHL ...