Value of: Julius Honka to the Oilers

[Mr Misty]

Well, you're reading me entirely wrong, and you're being WAY too paranoid. I really don't know much about Honka. How would I, unless I either a) was a Dallas Stars fan, which I'm not; or b) followed the AHL a lot, which is where he's been playing for the past 2+ seasons, which again, I don't follow. So yeah, you're wrong. This was an honest inquiry, and I know almost nothing about Honka. That's the truth.

This player I know almost nothing about is one I am going to propose a trade for. I also don't know his AHL numbers at all yet I still think he'd be a future NHL player for my favorite team.

Seems legit.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

So Aaron Ekblad is 'exempt' ?

No, he played more than 10 NHL games in each of his first two years.

 

[Rebuilt]

No, he played more than 10 NHL games in each of his first two years.

Show me again where AHL play DOESNT COUNT as pro years.

 

[Crocoduck]

Show me where it says that. lol. So if you brought the player up from junior to the NHL his first 2 years dont count because they 'kudda' sent him back to junior? Wat? lol

"Players with less than two years of professional experience are exempt. Professional experience means 10 or more NHL games in seasons where the player is 18 or 19, or any NHL or AHL season at the age of 20 or older..."

"Stars prized prospect Julius Honka will be ineligible to be drafted. Honka has two seasons of professional experience in the AHL, but those were his age 18 and 19 seasons. The definition should make him safe given that seasons accrued in the AHL count for players out of their teenage years."

 

[serp]

So Aaron Ekblad is 'exempt' ?

and your link says nothing about players playing PRO but it 'doesnt count' cuz they coulda played junior.

Is this better ?

 

[WhatWhat]

Show me where it says that. lol. So if you brought the player up from junior to the NHL his first 2 years dont count because they 'kudda' sent him back to junior? Wat? lol

go look up the rules if you want, the point is Honka is 100% guaranteed exempt. Ill allow you to use google and figure it out for yourself. Or just take my word

 

[Mr Misty]

It was more from posts like the below (taken from the Lundqvist to Dallas thread where people were GLOWING over the Dallas D prospects)

David's all in on Honka, there's no doubting that, but that isn't really what you were complaining about. I can't speak to the quality of their AHL play but his post doesn't say the things you represented.

 

[WhatWhat]

Lets be honest though, is Johns ever going to be more than a physical 4D on a cup team? I dont think so .

I think Klingberg is a nice offensive top pair dman but is certainly not a 1D because he really lacks a well rounded game. If we are weighting offensive abilities so heavily then guys like Yandle are a 1D too.

I think Klingberg is an offensive #2D and Johns is a #4D. IMO Dallas is missing a legit #1D and a legit #3D. I think Oduya and Hamhuis kind of muddy the waters there at the moment but the Dallas D really is average at best right now and poorer moving forward unless guys like Lindell and Honka make HUGE strides

Johns doesnt need to be more than a #4. So we are fine, Also if you don't think think Kling is #1 then we are simply on different pages because he is, in my eyes, a clear cut #1 D. He can be better and that would make him elite but he is a 1D and we are not missing a 1D

 

[WhatWhat]

Show me where it says that. lol. So if you brought the player up from junior to the NHL his first 2 years dont count because they 'kudda' sent him back to junior? Wat? lol

Dude read the expansion rules instead of just spitting out non sense. The rules have been out for a while and things like Honka being expempt has been clarified for months.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

David's all in on Honka, there's no doubting that, but that isn't really what you were complaining about. I can't speak to the quality of their AHL play but his post doesn't say the things you represented.

Come on. Saying he can change the Dallas blue line overnight is about as bold of a statement you can make after highly touting 3 dallas D prospects

 

[mc3488]

Klingberg looks like a #7 this year lol

 

[Crocoduck]

Klingberg looks like a #7 this year lol

He hasn't looked great, but to be fair, most of the roster has looked brutal.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Johns doesnt need to be more than a #4. So we are fine, Also if you don't think think Kling is #1 then we are simply on different pages because he is, in my eyes, a clear cut #1 D. He can be better and that would make him elite but he is a 1D and we are not missing a 1D

I think he is a 1D ON DALLAS, but I dont think he is a true 1D

Here, IMO, are the only true 1D in the NHL (in no order)

Weber
Subban
Suter
Josi
Keith
Doughty
McDonagh
Lindholm (im on the fence here, I would like to see more, but i will list him for now)
Giordano
Faulk
Ekblad
Karlsson
Letang
Ekman Larsson
Pietrangelo
Hedman
Vlasic

So by my count, only 17 TRUE 1dmen in the NHL

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Klingberg looks like a #7 this year lol

Here is my knock on klingberg:
-not a good skater
-not very physical, especially given his size
-if he isnt generating high scoring chances, he isnt very impactful

A true #1D can play in every and all situations, and I think Klingberg gets eaten alive in true defensive situations against elite talent. Every one of the 17 1D I listed above can handle top line assignments and be VERY effective defensively. I would not have that confidence in Klingberg

 

[Mr Misty]

Come on. Saying he can change the Dallas blue line overnight is about as bold of a statement you can make after highly touting 3 dallas D prospects

Let's be clear, this is what you said

Am I crazy, am I the only one who feel Lindell, Honka, and the other D prospects for Dallas are massively overrated?

Make no mistake, I think some of them will be decent NHLers one day, but they get talked about like DAL has top pair dmen busting at the seams. I just havent been that impressed with them when Ive watched them

The burden here is on you, you need to back up not just Honka is massively overrated, but that Lindell and others are also.

You have one post. David is all in on Honka; I bet I can find more posts to that effect by David than you can from all other HFStars combined.

It says nothing about Lindell besides he is playing well in the AHL. I'd say his stock has cratered since his WC and the WCoH performances, but if you want to present evidence to the contrary I'll yield that point to you.

I assume you don't think Backman is overrated because you haven't said his name outside the quote.

If you read one post by one poster on HF about that poster's favorite team's prospects and take it as the ultimate universal truth, that's on you. For me, it sends up a million red flags.

 

[me2]

Time in the AHL doesn't count for expansion as long as you are still eligible for junior while playing there. Pretty much only will effect european players.

Yeah, they don't count. Stars hockey ops confirmed it over the summer too.

Shinkaruk would qualify. Good news then for us flames anyway...

 

[Mr Misty]

Shinkaruk would qualify. Good news then for us flames anyway...

Is this better ?

Reading is hard I guess?

 

[BB88]

I think he is a 1D ON DALLAS, but I dont think he is a true 1D

Here, IMO, are the only true 1D in the NHL (in no order)

Weber
Subban
Suter
Josi
Keith
Doughty
McDonagh
Lindholm (im on the fence here, I would like to see more, but i will list him for now)
Giordano
Faulk
Ekblad
Karlsson
Letang
Ekman Larsson
Pietrangelo
Hedman
Vlasic

So by my count, only 17 TRUE 1dmen in the NHL

Those 2 aren't true #1D's today.

Honka would be a fantastic fit for Edmonton but he is that to Dallas also.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Let's be clear, this is what you said



The burden here is on you, you need to back up not just Honka is massively overrated, but that Lindell and others are also.

You have one post. David is all in on Honka; I bet I can find more posts to that effect by David than you can from all other HFStars combined.

It says nothing about Lindell besides he is playing well in the AHL. I'd say his stock has cratered since his WC and the WCoH performances, but if you want to present evidence to the contrary I'll yield that point to you.

I assume you don't think Backman is overrated because you haven't said his name outside the quote.

If you read one post by one poster on HF about that poster's favorite team's prospects and take it as the ultimate universal truth, that's on you. For me, it sends up a million red flags.

Here is one post from the bold predictions thread (I get it, its a bold prediction, but it was still a statement of where Lindell COULD be this year) from WhatWhat:

Didn't really happen last year so let's go take 2.

Nichuskin score 25-30 on the season.

New prediction Esa Lindell is an undisputed top pair LHD by season end

Here is another one from oconnorsean9 that called lindell a darkhorse calder candidate and pretty much an immediate top 4 dman from the "Which Defensemen have a shot at The Calder in 2017?" thread

Esa Lindell has pro/WCoH experience, will be relied upon to be a top 4 defenseman, and will certainly put up points playing on the Stars. He's a dark horse candidate.

I get he didnt call him a top 2 dman out of the gate, but lets not play ignorant like a top 4 dman immediately in his rookie season at 22 doesnt have the expectation of being a top 2 dman in the near to long term

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Those 2 aren't true #1D's today.

Honka would be a fantastic fit for Edmonton but he is that to Dallas also.

You really think Faulk and Eklbad arent 1D?

I dont know what to say to you then

 

[KarmaPolice]

This player I know almost nothing about is one I am going to propose a trade for. I also don't know his AHL numbers at all yet I still think he'd be a future NHL player for my favorite team.

Seems legit.

Well, I know he's a promising Dman, a right-hander, and puts up a decent amount of points on the PP. As I said in the OP, these are things the Oilers need. I slotted him in our second pairing. You really think I'm out to trash Honka? You really think the OP reads that way, when I want to ACQUIRE him and put him in our 2nd pairing? And I was willing to trade Nurse -- something most Oiler fans would NOT want to do, as an Oiler fan said in like the 2nd post. Okay, think what you want. There was a reason I was asking a lot of questions. But instead of having them answered, the questions are being taken by people like you as direct statements and shots against the player, which is ridiculous. Think what you want; this is officially bonkers now.

In terms of one of my statements, I was simply wondering why he's in the AHL again this year. Is the Dallas front office not high on him? Is he having trouble defending? There must be a reason. There is always a reason for these things. I wasn't saying that OR anything else to trash him, but to ask and wonder WHY. That is 100% legitimate, yes. It's legitimate to ask questions when you don't know the reasons why. It's irrational to be over-sensitive of such questions.

I also never said I didn't know his AHL stats. Clearly I do, as I stated that I know he's good on the PP and puts up a good amount of points there. I got that from his AHL stats, so boom goes your argument. Putting words in people's mouths I guess is how you roll.

 

[snipes]

Well, I know he's a promising Dman, a right-hander, and puts up a decent amount of points on the PP. As I said in the OP, these are things the Oilers need. I slotted him in our second pairing. You really think I'm out to trash Honka? You really think the OP reads that way, when I want to ACQUIRE him and put him in our 2nd pairing? And I was willing to trade Nurse -- something most Oiler fans would NOT want to do, as an Oiler fan said in like the 2nd post. Okay, think what you want. There was a reason I was asking a lot of questions. But instead of having them answered, the questions are being taken by people like you as direct statements and shots against the player, which is ridiculous. Think what you want; this is officially bonkers now.

Yeah we're not moving Nurse.

 

[serp]

You really think Faulk and Eklbad arent 1D?

I dont know what to say to you then

Ekblad is def not a 1D yet. He was heavily sheltered in his first two years .

 

[Mr Misty]

Here is one post from the bold predictions thread (I get it, its a bold prediction, but it was still a statement of where Lindell COULD be this year) from WhatWhat:

Didn't really happen last year so let's go take 2.

Nichuskin score 25-30 on the season.

New prediction Esa Lindell is an undisputed top pair LHD by season end

Here is another one from oconnorsean9 that called lindell a darkhorse calder candidate and pretty much an immediate top 4 dman from the "Which Defensemen have a shot at The Calder in 2017?" thread

Esa Lindell has pro/WCoH experience, will be relied upon to be a top 4 defenseman, and will certainly put up points playing on the Stars. He's a dark horse candidate.

I get he didnt call him a top 2 dman out of the gate, but lets not play ignorant like a top 4 dman immediately in his rookie season at 22 doesnt have the expectation of being a top 2 dman in the near to long term

I dunno man, do other fanbases not put forth their team's rookies as dark horse calder candidates? If you turn back the clock about 6 weeks you might expect the Stars to have scored a million goals by now and Lindell to have a significant point total.

If that adds up to your threshold for "massively overrated," fine. I tend to ignore everything said by a fanbase about its own prospects, but everybody can choose their own standard.

 

[Mr Misty]

Well, I know he's a promising Dman, a right-hander, and puts up a decent amount of points on the PP. As I said in the OP, these are things the Oilers need. I slotted him in our second pairing, should we acquire him. You really think I'm out to trash Honka? Should I slot him as our #1 Dman or something? Maybe make him our #1 centerman, too -- just so I'm no shortchanging the guy? Geez. You really think the OP reads that way, when I want to ACQUIRE him and put him in our 2nd pairing? And I was willing to trade Nurse -- something most Oiler fans would NOT want to do, as an Oiler fan said in like the 2nd post, because almost all of us would consider that a very high price. That's giving Honka respect on my part -- more than most Oiler fans, apparently. But okay, think what you want. There was a reason I was asking a lot of questions. But instead of having them answered, the questions are being taken by people like you as direct statements and shots against the player, which is ridiculous. Think what you want; this is officially bonkers now.

This is your third story. First was "Is Honka a disappointment?" then came "i know nothing about the AHL or Honka" and now "people are mad that I'm asking questions." It's silly to be so defensive and all this protesting your innocence makes you seem more and more guilty.

An 18 year old defenseman in the AHL who puts up 31 points is not a disappointment. A 19 year old defenseman who goes 44 in 73 AHL games is not a disappointment and going 9 so far in 8 is not a disappointment. I don't think anybody thinks you are stupid and just stumbled on to our top prospect by accident. If we stipulate that you are clever instead, then you can connect the dots and there's no need to dance around what you are about and no need to get all defensive when somebody points it out.