Value of: Julius Honka to the Oilers

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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Am I crazy, am I the only one who feel Lindell, Honka, and the other D prospects for Dallas are massively overrated?

Make no mistake, I think some of them will be decent NHLers one day, but they get talked about like DAL has top pair dmen busting at the seams. I just havent been that impressed with them when Ive watched them
 

A91

Oilers + Real Madrid
May 21, 2011
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Oilers would be smart to acquire Ryan Murphy. He is now healthy and Dregger reported a few days ago that a few teams have inquired on him. Justin Faulk gets all the prime PP time for the Canes and they also have Pesce and Nakladal as right shooting dmen.
Murphy 23, needs a change of scenery. He has 65 points in 82 AHL games and 35 points in 125 NHL games with limited ice time. In the right situation, he can use his vision, shot and skating to run a pp.
I wonder where he will land?

Id make an offer if the price was right. The pick St.Louis owes for Yak (3rd or 2nd if he scores 15) and a D prospect.
 

Mr Misty

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Feb 20, 2012
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Am I crazy, am I the only one who feel Lindell, Honka, and the other D prospects for Dallas are massively overrated?

Make no mistake, I think some of them will be decent NHLers one day, but they get talked about like DAL has top pair dmen busting at the seams. I just havent been that impressed with them when Ive watched them

There are 8 Stars fans on HF, not sure who is out there massively hyping them up for you.

I'm not going to pretend to be unbiased, but just I don't see it. It seems like most people rank prospects on the criteria of whether he was drafted by my team and then by CHL results. Honka's AHL numbers don't seem to impress anybody on HF outside of the "please trade him to us for peanuts" crowd, and Lindel's draft position seems to be much more important to people than being the best defenseman in the Finish league and playing for the national team.

And it doesn't exactly make your argument stronger to straw man this "top pair bursting at the seems" business when there are only 2 prospects anywhere near that conversation.
 

WhatWhat

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Aug 7, 2014
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I notice that Honka is again starting in the AHL for the 3rd season in a row. However, he's put up some fine numbers there, and is very good on the PP and has a right-handed shot. All things the Oilers could use.

However, I have no idea how much the Dallas franchise value him. Has he been seen as a disappointment somehow? Are they just really taking their time with his development? Is he realistically available at all? What would the Stars be seeking in return for his services?

For the future, the following top-6 could be very nice for the Oilers.

Klefbom - Larsson
Sekera - Honka
Davidson - Benning

I might consider moving Nurse for him, if you need another young Dman coming back in a potential deal.

What's the knock on Honka? There must be a reason (or reasons) that he's starting in the AHL in what is basically his 21 year old season (which is still very young, mind you). But, as mentioned before, this is now 3 seasons in a row. Is his his smaller size really affecting his defensive play?

There is no knock. He played in the AHL at 18 and his draft class is just getting there this year. He is currently above PPG and our D in the NHL is questionable right now so he is about as untouchable as it gets
 

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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There are 8 Stars fans on HF, not sure who is out there massively hyping them up for you.

I'm not going to pretend to be unbiased, but just I don't see it. It seems like most people rank prospects on the criteria of whether he was drafted by my team and then by CHL results. Honka's AHL numbers don't seem to impress anybody on HF outside of the "please trade him to us for peanuts" crowd, and Lindel's draft position seems to be much more important to people than being the best defenseman in the Finish league and playing for the national team.

And it doesn't exactly make your argument stronger to straw man this "top pair bursting at the seems" business when there are only 2 prospects anywhere near that conversation.

I have long heard on HF that DAL's defensive deficiencies, now and moving forward, were not an issue because the Dallas D pipeline was ripe.

Especially with the D corps losses in recent years paired with Oduya and Hamhuis gone in the next 1-2 years.
 

WhatWhat

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Aug 7, 2014
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Am I crazy, am I the only one who feel Lindell, Honka, and the other D prospects for Dallas are massively overrated?

Make no mistake, I think some of them will be decent NHLers one day, but they get talked about like DAL has top pair dmen busting at the seams. I just havent been that impressed with them when Ive watched them

Stars fans on HF dont really exists. If he is being super hyped its by other fans. Stars fans think Lindell is a top 4 LD but was are excited for him because he is our only LD prospect with potential. As for Honka you can think he is overrated if you want but he has been compared to a Goligoski with more anger and grit. If he becomes that then he is worth all the hype he is getting
 

Mr Misty

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Feb 20, 2012
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I have long heard on HF that DAL's defensive deficiencies, now and moving forward, were not an issue because the Dallas D pipeline was ripe.

Especially with the D corps losses in recent years paired with Oduya and Hamhuis gone in the next 1-2 years.

And you take a person who says a rookie can replace Alex Goligoski seriously? No defense can cope with the loss of Goligoski and Demers and Russell and Oduya in 2 years, and no team's top 4 can replace 2 players with rookies and expect normal service.

I assume there was sentiment that we shouldn't commit to Goligoski or Demers that was either poorly articulated by the poster or misinterpreted by you. There's reason for optimism especially on the right side but no sure things.
 

WhatWhat

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Aug 7, 2014
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I have long heard on HF that DAL's defensive deficiencies, now and moving forward, were not an issue because the Dallas D pipeline was ripe.

Especially with the D corps losses in recent years paired with Oduya and Hamhuis gone in the next 1-2 years.

the excitement stemmed from a couple things. One Honka is legit whether you think he is overrated or not. Lindell for the finnish norris at 20 years old in the Liiga so we got excited for that. Other than those 2 there hasnt been much hype for D prospect other than Johns because Nill Sold him to the fans.

So most stars fans saw a future of Kling, Honka, Lindell then Johns came in and we thought for the first time in a long time that we had a future top 4 locked in. Most of us still do but realize its not ready this year. Kling is established as a 1D (arguable based on your definition) and Johns made the Demers injury almost a non factor. After that Lindell has less than 10 games and Honka has yet to play.


As stars fans we realize that our D development is slightly off from our forward development (ie we would like to be ready now be the D arent quite there yet) however most fans from other teams seem to think that because we have Benn and Seguin if we don't win the cup its a failed season. Our D is coming. Kling is known, Johns is now here. Lindell has looked like the most natural Kling partner and we are missing Honka.

So if it works outwe have a core of 4 all around the same age that should last a while. However outside of those 4 I don't think many of our prospects are really turning heads
 

Ghost of Kyiv

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As I'm sure as any fanbase with defensive issues could sympathize with, the Stars have been offered a lot of mediocre bottom pairing defenseman over the past few years.

Ya know, want to sell Roman Polak? Send him to Dallas. Want to dump Luke Schenn? Send him to Dallas. Name a big physical #6 defenseman; chances are he has been offered to Stars fans at one time or another. So naturally, Stars fans had the response of "we have NHL ready defenseman" citing guys like Nemeth, Johns and Jokipakka in the process (who were in fact, better options than the mediocre vets people were trying to pawn off). Don't know if that really coincides with "talked about like DAL has top pair dmen busting at the seams" though.

I think Lindell was overhyped by Stars fans (though back last December, I was too). He's been good the past few games at least.
 

KarmaPolice

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This doesn't really come across as an honest inquiry about Honka. In fact, if I didn't know better, I'd go so far as to say this is just you intentionally trying to downplay his value. But, I'm sure it's just coming across that way completely by accident.

Well, you're reading me entirely wrong, and you're being WAY too paranoid. I really don't know much about Honka. How would I, unless I either a) was a Dallas Stars fan, which I'm not; or b) followed the AHL a lot, which is where he's been playing for the past 2+ seasons, which again, I don't follow. So yeah, you're wrong. This was an honest inquiry, and I know almost nothing about Honka. That's the truth.
 

Rebuilt

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Oiler dont want Honka unless you take someone like Eberle back and even then we can do this at the end of the year. Not that he has no value but we already have to protect 3 defenders and cant protect another.

p.s. On a side note...........Cubs 9 outs away (crosses fingers)
 

Ghost of Kyiv

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Well, you're reading me entirely wrong, and you're being WAY too paranoid. I really don't know much about Honka. How would I, unless I either a) was a Dallas Stars fan, which I'm not; or b) followed the AHL a lot, which is where he's been playing for the past 2+ seasons, which again, I don't follow. So yeah, you're wrong. This was an honest inquiry, and I know almost nothing about Honka. That's the truth.

I noticed that Darnell Nurse has seen his minutes decrease this year. However, he seems to be doing well on the bottom pairing, and is very good on the PK. All things the Stars could use.

However, I have no idea how the Oilers value him. Has he been seen as a disappointment somehow? Are they just really taking their time with his development? Is he realistically available at all? What would the Oilers be seeking in return for his services?

What’s the knock on Nurse. There must be a reason (or reasons) that he’s seen his minutes decrease in what is basically his age 22 year old season (which is still very young mind you). But, as mentioned before, he’s on the bottom pairing. Is his decision making really affecting his play?


Seem innocuous enough to me.

And an Islander fan reached the same conclusion as me btw.
 

WhatWhat

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Aug 7, 2014
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Oiler dont want Honka unless you take someone like Eberle back and even then we can do this at the end of the year. Not that he has no value but we already have to protect 3 defenders and cant protect another.

p.s. On a side note...........Cubs 9 outs away (crosses fingers)

For what its worth Honka is exempt. That doesnt matter tho because there is nothing you could offer that you would be willing to that would make Nill consider saying yes
 

WhatWhat

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Aug 7, 2014
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I noticed that Darnell Nurse has seen his minutes decrease this year. However, he seems to be doing well on the bottom pairing, and is very good on the PK. All things the Stars could use.

However, I have no idea how the Oilers value him. Has he been seen as a disappointment somehow? Are they just really taking their time with his development? Is he realistically available at all? What would the Oilers be seeking in return for his services?

What’s the knock on Nurse. There must be a reason (or reasons) that he’s seen his minutes decrease in what is basically his age 22 year old season (which is still very young mind you). But, as mentioned before, he’s on the bottom pairing. Is his decision making really affecting his play?


Seem innocuous enough to me.

And an Islander fan reached the same conclusion as me btw.


This is too meta
 

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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the excitement stemmed from a couple things. One Honka is legit whether you think he is overrated or not. Lindell for the finnish norris at 20 years old in the Liiga so we got excited for that. Other than those 2 there hasnt been much hype for D prospect other than Johns because Nill Sold him to the fans.

So most stars fans saw a future of Kling, Honka, Lindell then Johns came in and we thought for the first time in a long time that we had a future top 4 locked in. Most of us still do but realize its not ready this year. Kling is established as a 1D (arguable based on your definition) and Johns made the Demers injury almost a non factor. After that Lindell has less than 10 games and Honka has yet to play.


As stars fans we realize that our D development is slightly off from our forward development (ie we would like to be ready now be the D arent quite there yet) however most fans from other teams seem to think that because we have Benn and Seguin if we don't win the cup its a failed season. Our D is coming. Kling is known, Johns is now here. Lindell has looked like the most natural Kling partner and we are missing Honka.

So if it works outwe have a core of 4 all around the same age that should last a while. However outside of those 4 I don't think many of our prospects are really turning heads

Lets be honest though, is Johns ever going to be more than a physical 4D on a cup team? I dont think so .

I think Klingberg is a nice offensive top pair dman but is certainly not a 1D because he really lacks a well rounded game. If we are weighting offensive abilities so heavily then guys like Yandle are a 1D too.

I think Klingberg is an offensive #2D and Johns is a #4D. IMO Dallas is missing a legit #1D and a legit #3D. I think Oduya and Hamhuis kind of muddy the waters there at the moment but the Dallas D really is average at best right now and poorer moving forward unless guys like Lindell and Honka make HUGE strides
 

Rebuilt

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For what its worth Honka is exempt. That doesnt matter tho because there is nothing you could offer that you would be willing to that would make Nill consider saying yes

Honka has played 2 years in the AHL and this is his THIRD. How is he exempt? AHL is a pro league. The rule is the player can be exempted IF he has played 2 or less years in any pro league by the end of this year.

Honka will have played 3.

Cubs 6 outs away. Even non baseball fans have to tune in for this. They havent won the world series since 1908
 
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serp

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Jan 17, 2016
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Honka has played 2 years in the AHL and this is his THIRD. How is he exempt? AHL is a pro league. The rule is the player can be exempted IF he has played 2 or less years in any pro league by the end of this year.

Honka will have played 3.


Cubs 6 outs away. Even non baseball fans have to tune in for this. They havent won the world series since 1908


Two of those AHL seasons he was still eligible to play in junior . Those don't count as pro-years for the expansion . Thats how he is exempt .
 

KarmaPolice

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I noticed that Darnell Nurse has seen his minutes decrease this year. However, he seems to be doing well on the bottom pairing, and is very good on the PK. All things the Stars could use.

However, I have no idea how the Oilers value him. Has he been seen as a disappointment somehow? Are they just really taking their time with his development? Is he realistically available at all? What would the Oilers be seeking in return for his services?

What’s the knock on Nurse. There must be a reason (or reasons) that he’s seen his minutes decrease in what is basically his age 22 year old season (which is still very young mind you). But, as mentioned before, he’s on the bottom pairing. Is his decision making really affecting his play?


Seem innocuous enough to me.

And an Islander fan reached the same conclusion as me btw.

Yeah, I was asking questions. They weren't statements. Or if I did make a statement, it a was a rhetorical 'why is this the case?' type statement, basically wondering what the answer was. I didn't mean to say anything negative about him. Why else would I want to trade for him, and put him on our 2nd pairing? That doesn't make much sense to think low of a guy, yet want him in such an important role, wouldn't you say? So what is it you were worried about, again?

Look, I just wanted to know his value, and if there was a deal that might be worked out with the Oilers. That all. The rest, believe what you want. I don't care.
 
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serp

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His value is an overpayment. The Stars need another offensive minded puckmover badly . Can't trade the only guy in the system that brings that .
 

Rebuilt

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Two of those AHL seasons he was still eligible to play in junior . Those don't count as pro-years for the expansion . Thats how he is exempt .

Show me where it says that. lol. So if you brought the player up from junior to the NHL his first 2 years dont count because they 'kudda' sent him back to junior? Wat? lol
 

serp

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Show me where it says that. lol. So if you brought the player up from junior to the NHL his first 2 years dont count because they 'kudda' sent him back to junior? Wat? lol

Via the CBA
Player aged 18 or 19 earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more NHL Games in a given NHL Season, and a Player aged 20 or older (or who turns 20 between September 16 and December 31 of the year in which he signs his first SPC) earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more Professional Games under an SPC in a given League Year.
And

"Professional Games" includes the following: any NHL Games played, all minor league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games played, including but not limited to, games played in any European league or any other league outside North America, by a Player pursuant to his SPC.

You can read it here http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-teams-receiving-information-potential-expansion-draft/
 

McFlyingV

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Feb 22, 2013
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Show me where it says that. lol. So if you brought the player up from junior to the NHL his first 2 years dont count because they 'kudda' sent him back to junior? Wat? lol

He's right the players who have their ELC slide in the AHL don't count towards expansion years. It was confirmed a while back, but I'm too lazy to look for the source. Honka is exempt, just like Nylander is exempt.
 

Mr Misty

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Feb 20, 2012
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Show me where it says that. lol. So if you brought the player up from junior to the NHL his first 2 years dont count because they 'kudda' sent him back to junior? Wat? lol

The NHL and European pro leagues are classified as "pro leagues" in the CBA. Time in the AHL when you are in your teens doesn't count as "professional experience" because nobody expects a situation where a player's European club loans them to the CHL and then the contract with that European club expires following that players draft year.

This is not news.
 

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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And you take a person who says a rookie can replace Alex Goligoski seriously? No defense can cope with the loss of Goligoski and Demers and Russell and Oduya in 2 years, and no team's top 4 can replace 2 players with rookies and expect normal service.

I assume there was sentiment that we shouldn't commit to Goligoski or Demers that was either poorly articulated by the poster or misinterpreted by you. There's reason for optimism especially on the right side but no sure things.

It was more from posts like the below (taken from the Lundqvist to Dallas thread where people were GLOWING over the Dallas D prospects)

Nill is a brilliant cap manager. For one, he's not the one who gave Kari that idiotic contract. Two, they have a lot of UFA's next year (Goligoski, Demers, Benn, Fiddler, Eaves, Sceviour, Russell) that will clear up a minimum of SOME space, and all of their current UFA signings (Sharp, Oduya, Hemsky) end when Benn and Seguin are due raises. In other words, they'll be fine in two years.

The massive need on defense is aided by the fact that they have three VERY promising blueline prospects in Honka, Lindell, and Backman: all three of whom are playing brilliant hockey in the AHL right now against San Diego (Anaheim).

Nill won't do it, but if he moved Kari (which is a step below Toronto moving Clarkson's contract) and got Hank, and then let most of the expensive blueline UFA's walk in favor of at least two prospects graduating, they'd be fine cap wise.

He's got a lot of work to do but that's what he does best (Russell trade aside, which has actually worked out despite it costing more than Russell is worth). I'd be wary of giving up Honka as part of the deal for Hank personally, but only because I think Honka is legit, and can help transform Dallas' blueline overnight. But if that's what New York wanted (and it's who they asked for when Dallas asked about Talbot), Nill just might pull the trigger.
 

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