Proposal: JT Miller to the Rangers for futures (proposal)

[PettersonHughes]

As a Vancouver fan I'd be open to see where the team is at the TDL before moving Miller.

There's renewed hope given the good start and track record that Boudreau brings to the team, so maybe we'll want to hold on to him and move him next deadline if he prices himself out. But yes, I agree with the cost starting at Schneider + 1st round pick, and maybe a lesser roster center (I get that Miller isn't Jack Eichel, but given that he's a point per game guy and 1st line regular I don't think he's worth half of Eichel either, and Jack + 3rd got a prospect (Krebs), young forward (Tuch), cond. 1st and 2nd, so only 2 pieces seems too little). Maybe the add could be a early-mid 20's center who's a lesser replacement for him?

 

[zcaptain]

As a Vancouver fan I'd be open to see where the team is at the TDL before moving Miller.

There's renewed hope given the good start and track record that Boudreau brings to the team, so maybe we'll want to hold on to him and move him next deadline if he prices himself out. But yes, I agree with the cost starting at Schneider + 1st round pick, and maybe a lesser roster center (I get that Miller isn't Jack Eichel, but given that he's a point per game guy and 1st line regular I don't think he's worth half of Eichel either, and Jack + 3rd got a prospect (Krebs), young forward (Tuch), cond. 1st and 2nd, so only 2 pieces seems too little). Maybe the add could be a early-mid 20's center who's a lesser replacement for him?

I agree on your trade assessment........it is funny how the ranger fans see no benefit of a 1st line multi tool, that has a winning F/O percentage, kill penalties, plays 1st line PP, and is at a point per game on a loosing team, play all 3 positions well, and only paying pennies on the dollar...............It actually blows me away.

The fact that they do not see the benefit of a 1.3 Million first line player, when next year they have to open the coffers for Fox, is kind of funny.

Throw me an offer I cant refuse...............Nope! It will cost, and all I want to pay is nothing....we can get better! We are not good enough yet!
LOL...........best winning percentage in the 32 team league and they are not good enough! LOL They are good and these next couple of years, are pretty important to Panarin, I am sure!

As for Miller, and the Canucks, I agree in that Miller is our premium player, but we are no where near the Rangers skill and depth and we will not be able to afford him and re-sign everyone else, so I would rather offer him this year, while the trading team gets 2 years at a discount, and we get futures worth something..............

Oh, well!

Any other teams, like to make an offer?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That's an absolutely awful deal for the Rangers. Laughably bad.

 

[Akrapovince]

Teams that are going to be competing for a long time should look long and hard at players with two years remaining and the discount you get for acquiring a player like that.

Instead of spending a first + prospect at the deadline for an expiring contract, you can essentially just pay a bit more to get two years instead of going out the next year and paying the same for another expiring contract.

1st + prospect in year one, then first + prospect the year after is a lot more steep than the value you would get for a player with 2YR no?

 

[Peen]

Miller is what he is. The exact guy you want going to war for your team come playoff team. Really a great offensive player. Not good with the puck on his stuck in his own end; these issues are exacerbated playing center. Can he play C? Yes. Will he play it a top end first line level like he does LW? No, not even close.

His contract is ridiculously cheap for what he can do. And, you get two years of playoff runs.

It got really bad last season when the team was bad, but the culture here was so rotten. It still is, but it's clear that the firings alone had a huge benefit to the culture improving. I think that experience matured JT a bit. I hope it did, because that childishness he displayed was pretty gross.

Either way, I'm not usually one to gas up our own players or anything, but this is one of the better possible deadline acquisitions that has come up in the last few years.

But this discussion will be meaningless until Vancouver makes a hockey-ops change. If they go with a dinosaur like Rutherford who will pump this team up in the short term, Miller is getting a 6 year deal in seven months. If they go get people who legitimately care about the long-term future of this franchise, Miller is going to be traded for a massive haul in the spring.

 

[Flan the incredible]

I agree on your trade assessment........it is funny how the ranger fans see no benefit of a 1st line multi tool, that has a winning F/O percentage, kill penalties, plays 1st line PP, and is at a point per game on a loosing team, play all 3 positions well, and only paying pennies on the dollar...............It actually blows me away.

The fact that they do not see the benefit of a 1.3 Million first line player, when next year they have to open the coffers for Fox, is kind of funny.

Throw me an offer I cant refuse...............Nope! It will cost, and all I want to pay is nothing....we can get better! We are not good enough yet!
LOL...........best winning percentage in the 32 team league and they are not good enough! LOL They are good and these next couple of years, are pretty important to Panarin, I am sure!

As for Miller, and the Canucks, I agree in that Miller is our premium player, but we are no where near the Rangers skill and depth and we will not be able to afford him and re-sign everyone else, so I would rather offer him this year, while the trading team gets 2 years at a discount, and we get futures worth something..............

Oh, well!

Any other teams, like to make an offer?

Pretty sure the Rangers do see the benefit of Miller considering they watched him for 6 years when he was on the team. Has he gotten a bit better sure but that still doesn't mean they want to give up a huge haul for a guy they can't sign after the year and a half.

Its ironic you are saying to trade him because you can't sign him but its okay for them to give up numerous pieces when they can't sign him either. If you want to use the excuse of they are going for a cup they could easily spend much less for other rentals over the next 2 years. They also have plenty of space this year so the salary retention means nothing this year.

This trade is awful.

 

[bernmeister]

Well, the Ranger have the best winning percentage in the league and the 5th most points, and are legitimate
Cup contenders (Congrats to them) IMO, JT Miller gives even a better chance of winning. He is the Canucks
emotional and point leader. He plays all 3 forward positions, and does not lose a beat, at any of them. He is not the same player he was in Tampa, or when he was first a Ranger. He does fit our rebuild or Cap situation.

JT Miller has this and next season signed at $5,250,000......2 runs at the cup.............for the Rangers

I propose a 3 deal, where Vancouver carries 50% = $2,625,000
a 2nd team carries 50% of the remaining $$2,625,000 = $1,312,500
and the Rangers get Miller for $1,312,500 for 2 years

Proposal (At TDL)

Vancouver trades JT Miller @ 50% to NY Rangers for Schneider, NYR 2022-1st (32OA), and Chytil/Othmann

New York Rangers trade 2022-2nd (STL) to Arizona for assistance in retention of Miller contract


JT MILLER TO NY RANGERS FOR $1,312,500 cap hit per year

NO NO NO
and
NO

to

a) massive overpay gutting team w/another bad judgment of short term win now.

and

b) even setting aside every other aspect
NYR has zero cap for next season for any splurge of any kind
period

once Trouba agrees to let us deal him which may come during next season
or middle of the following season
[as opposed to when we control doing it at end of that following season]
at that pt we will have a tiny bit of recovered cap after paying multiple guys a mil here or there in raises

just no

 

[bernmeister]

I think Rangers fans need to get over there persistence on replacing Strome. He is probably going to resign there.

If they make a move its for RW or LD and there are way cheaper options out there.

Don't see them giving up that much on any trade.

Agree on giving up too much in almost any trade
an exception could be a larger blockbuster where we surrender added currency for premium piece(s), but general agree.

Best move is internal, should not trade at this time.
Reunanen + Jones a cup o coffee each if LD needed, which is not clear at this pt.

Barron should already be here, ditto Krav first chance.

Strome needs to go b'c cap.
Any other discussion aspect yields to that.

Top top $ raises to both Zib + Fox have sealed that.
He deserves more than 4.5 he's paid now and will get that.
We can't even offer him a cut to stay here
next season is super brutal tight cap wise and will remain so until Trouba replaced by Schneider

 

[bernmeister]

He is the 18th best center in points in the league. On a better team, he will see better matchups and more points...........

He plays PP and PK, and plays all 3 positions, and almost never with the same guys

He also never takes a shift off

I would like to see a respectful counter proposal, from those that object to the cost..............I get the price is rich

but those picks are late in every round, and have lesser value than early or mid round picks..........retaining 50% has value above the player

It might be a little rich, so lets see the counter proposal.......

But it starts with Schneider and the 1st..................what is the plus?

Hey Guys!

Send me a Counter proposal

But take into consideration 2 things.............

Miller is the best of my examples

and

his salary is cut by 3/4's which gives you a premium player at an entry level price

But give me a Realistic Counter Proposal

no on any counterproposal
your inane suggestion was beyond attrocious

 

[bernmeister]

We should not gut this team for ElPete, let alone Miller.

best teams recently win principally w/depth [Botls, Bruins]
some get lucky w/coupla stars dominating short series [Pens]

Rangers are lucky to have Fox and breadman covering superstar angle
and
rest of team has balance + depth

Hot goalie is an x factor in any series
but we have that covered w/Shesty
who may be best value of production v cost for netminder in the league


NO to OP
no to counter

we need to focus on good value returns for Strome + to lesser extent Geo, neither of whom we can afford to bring back.
THOSE are the kind of rock the steady boat hits to the chin you take b'c self renting and getting nothing at season end when they walk is unacceptable.

You don't eff with the rest of the lineup.

 

[Paddys Pub]

F that noise.
Miller isn’t available.
He is awesome and the Canucks need him big time. Id much rather just resign him.
First line power guy who scored at PPG, plays PP and PK. Heart and soul guy who gives it his all.

Trade Horvat and make Miller the captain.

 

[Paddys Pub]

While the OPs double retention idea is ridiculous, I find it really funny to see all the Rags fans aggressively shut down the idea of getting Miller, even though it’s super obvious they are an average team getting dragged to the top by fantastic goaltending.
If something happens to the goalie, the team will plummet down the standings.
They need a Miller. Maybe 2. Lol.
Miller at 5 mill is super cheap. Miller at half that means adding a 1st liner with some cap left to get another player they obviously need.

 

[rangersfansince08]

As a Vancouver fan I'd be open to see where the team is at the TDL before moving Miller.

There's renewed hope given the good start and track record that Boudreau brings to the team, so maybe we'll want to hold on to him and move him next deadline if he prices himself out. But yes, I agree with the cost starting at Schneider + 1st round pick, and maybe a lesser roster center (I get that Miller isn't Jack Eichel, but given that he's a point per game guy and 1st line regular I don't think he's worth half of Eichel either, and Jack + 3rd got a prospect (Krebs), young forward (Tuch), cond. 1st and 2nd, so only 2 pieces seems too little). Maybe the add could be a early-mid 20's center who's a lesser replacement for him?

Eichel had 5 year on his contract. Vegas should get 4 seasons and a playoff run this year. JT Miller has 1.5 seasons. So he is actually worth a lot less than Eichel.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Teams that are going to be competing for a long time should look long and hard at players with two years remaining and the discount you get for acquiring a player like that.

Instead of spending a first + prospect at the deadline for an expiring contract, you can essentially just pay a bit more to get two years instead of going out the next year and paying the same for another expiring contract.

1st + prospect in year one, then first + prospect the year after is a lot more steep than the value you would get for a player with 2YR no?

Eichel with 4-5 years got 4 assets. Are you saying he was actually worth 8-10?

 

[rangersfansince08]

While the OPs double retention idea is ridiculous, I find it really funny to see all the Rags fans aggressively shut down the idea of getting Miller, even though it’s super obvious they are an average team getting dragged to the top by fantastic goaltending.
If something happens to the goalie, the team will plummet down the standings.
They need a Miller. Maybe 2. Lol.
Miller at 5 mill is super cheap. Miller at half that means adding a 1st liner with some cap left to get another player they obviously need.

lol. Georgiev sucks. Is a literal turnstile and somehow we are 4-1-1 with him.

 

[Richter35]

what is a package around kravtsov with 50% retention that works for VAN? Kravtsov + 1st? Anything more? I think that would work from both sides.

 

[bernmeister]

what is a package around kravtsov with 50% retention that works for VAN? Kravtsov + 1st? Anything more? I think that would work from both sides.

we can't add any salary

we are best off holding Kravtsov

dealing Strome to DET for 3rd this year and 2nd next
promoting Barron

and reassess Krav after he has legit shot w/varsity

we can't afford Miller or other vets
stop giving up youth for age
stop w/win now illusions that usually do not work long term

best chance for repeat success and hits at the cup
is to maintain depth via youth
don't cannibalize that

 

[cwede]

NYR not bringing back Miller
Schneider not available

 

[Akrapovince]

Eichel with 4-5 years got 4 assets. Are you saying he was actually worth 8-10?

No, it kind of just proves my point. Like anything, you get a discount on buying bulk or in this case getting a player with more term.

Think about acquiring Eichel as a UFA every year for 4-5 years. Would cost way more than just taking him on as he was.

Eichel with 4-5 years is worth the four assets. Eichel as a trade deadline pickup 5 times year after year would be worth 8-10.

Obvious caveat which I didn’t think through however is that when you acquire a UFA of that caliber most likely you’ll have an extension in place. But Eichel doesn’t really fall under the category of “rental” for my point.

 

[McJedi]

Well, the Ranger have the best winning percentage in the league and the 5th most points, and are legitimate
Cup contenders (Congrats to them) IMO, JT Miller gives even a better chance of winning. He is the Canucks
emotional and point leader. He plays all 3 forward positions, and does not lose a beat, at any of them. He is not the same player he was in Tampa, or when he was first a Ranger. He does fit our rebuild or Cap situation.

JT Miller has this and next season signed at $5,250,000......2 runs at the cup.............for the Rangers

I propose a 3 deal, where Vancouver carries 50% = $2,625,000
a 2nd team carries 50% of the remaining $$2,625,000 = $1,312,500
and the Rangers get Miller for $1,312,500 for 2 years

Proposal (At TDL)

Vancouver trades JT Miller @ 50% to NY Rangers for Schneider, NYR 2022-1st (32OA), and Chytil/Othmann

New York Rangers trade 2022-2nd (STL) to Arizona for assistance in retention of Miller contract


JT MILLER TO NY RANGERS FOR $1,312,500 cap hit per year

Vancouver should hit that offer.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

No one is making a counter offer because no Ranger fan is even mildly interested in paying anything near the stratosphere of what you’ve proposed.

Because they don't know how to value players.
Miller goes to market to market and a deal like Schneider, Chytil, 2nd is the minimum value. Add retention and the 2nd is a 1st, add dbl retention and a 2nd gets added.
It doesn't matter if Rangers fans like it or not, but that is fair value. If the Rangers GM doesn't want to pay, feel free to go dumpster diving.

 

[topshelf15]

Cant the Rangers going this route,but fully expect them to be a major player in the offseason...They always seem to snag what they want,cap or no cap

 

[Richter35]

we can't add any salary

we are best off holding Kravtsov

dealing Strome to DET for 3rd this year and 2nd next
promoting Barron

and reassess Krav after he has legit shot w/varsity

we can't afford Miller or other vets
stop giving up youth for age
stop w/win now illusions that usually do not work long term

best chance for repeat success and hits at the cup
is to maintain depth via youth
don't cannibalize that

plenty of cap this year. next year i don't see how they retain strome and miller could slot into his spot - they can make space for a 2.6m player.

I think Krav is done with the organization. other thread people are offering a 2nd - i'd rather move him for someone like Miller who could make this team even better.

That said i'm happy to sit tight - team is rolling. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. am just concerned for any big injury to the top 6- don't really have depth to address it at the NHL level

 

[TGWL]

#1 - That's too much from NYR. 3 first round picks is a little steep for Miller w/ retention from Vancouver.
#2 - I don't think we need to take an additional 50% off the 50% Vancouver is retaining. So losing a 2nd seems pointless.

Where do you see Miller playing in the line-up? Considering how much Panarin loves playing with Strome, and Zibanejad anchoring (or being a sinking anchor) on the first line.
Do you think Miller is going to get over 20 minutes a night like he's currently doing on Vancouver?

J.T Miller has 9 even strength 5 on 5 points. Kakko has 2 less even strength points in 6 less games. Forwards over 15 games, Miller ranks 151 for 5 on 5 points. There's far more to the game than just even strength points, and obviously Miller is the far better player than Kakko so this isn't to crap on Miller, but where is he playing in the line-up that's going to justify giving up all that? Is he going to take the right side on Kreider/ Zibanejad line? If so - will he be the one taking the faceoffs because it would be extremely foolish to pay that much and not even use one of Miller's strengths. Or do you see Miller being the 3c?

 

[TGWL]

I don't know?????

Certainly Schneider is a solid 1st....no arguement
the 2022-1st is 32 OA (IMO).....I like your team it equals a early 2nd rounder
STL 2nd rounder is pretty much a 3rd rounder............you could change it to NYR's 2nd (64OA)?
Chytil/Othmann..............sure they equal a 1st

Maybe it is a little rich................

Counter proposal ??????????

Schneider is a must, and so is the 2022-1st..............what's the 3rd piece?

and / or we could add Motte, which you will now hear cries from Vancouver Fans about that suggestion

If you can promise we'll have the #32 pick (which belongs to us - not a trade), sure I'll do this deal...