Player Discussion JT Miller Thread

[NYVanfan]

Consecutive summers doing OEL then Miller deals is the undoing of this iteration of the canucks, im afraid. Think where we’d be if had done neither. Guenther, maybe Chytl, Lundqvist and a ton of picks and cap space with a young core. But no, our dink owner needed to push for the playoffs with such an obviously lacking roster and now we are effectively the sharks (but worse prospect pool)

Id still love a rangers-esque mini rebuid around demko, EP, QH, maybe Podz and Kuz …but so many big $ deals they just wont be able to get away from…

 

[NYVanfan]

Important question to me – is there any conceivable market for Miller ?
Is it complete fantasy to think that if there were serious suitors over the past six months that they would’ve been contemplating acquisition with the sort of extension Miller received in mind? And therefore having him locked him up doesn’t necessarily diminish the value for say, one of the New York teams? (excluding NYR since Trocheck of course)
And that’s the problem at this time of the year there’s so little cap space especially on contenders and more, trade partners with no the Canucks are over a barrel

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Important question to me – is there any conceivable market for Miller ?
Is it complete fantasy to think that if there were serious suitors over the past six months that they would’ve been contemplating acquisition with the sort of extension Miller received in mind? And therefore having him locked him up doesn’t necessarily diminish the value for say, one of the New York teams? (excluding NYR since Trocheck of course)
And that’s the problem at this time of the year there’s so little calf space especially on contenders and more, trade partners with no the Canucks are over a barrel

His value has to be way lower than what it was at the TDL last season.


I hate the extension, but I dont for a second believe JT Miller suddenly forgot how to play hockey. Just like I didn't believe that was the case with EP last season. Miller will regain value as the season moves along.

 

[NYVanfan]

It’s so frustrating to me because if this team did not have Miller and OEL they wouldn’t be decidedly worse (at least not in terms of their cup odds) and they would be infinitely more flexible and set up for the future

 

[Luck 6]

It’s so frustrating to me because if this team did not have Miller and OEL they wouldn’t be decidedly worse (at least not in terms of their cup odds) and they would be infinitely more flexible and set up for the future

Yaaaaa… Those two deals aren’t looking great….

Out:
OEL
Miller
Garland

In:
Guenther
Haight
1st (Miller return)
Top Prospect (Miller return)
20mil in cap space

That would certainly give us some flexibility to build this roster, and some young pieces to work with..

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Went and asked the Dallas board about a possible Miller <-> Benn trade and they deleted my post.

 

[David71]

did we get royally screwed and got baited by millers agent signing him to that 7yr deal 56 million? what if van just took Nyr's offer of cytil 1st +prospect it would have been okay.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

did we get royally screwed and got baited by millers agent signing him to that 7yr deal 56 million? what if van just took Nyr's offer of cytil 1st +prospect it would have been okay.

Its not a bad contract if we were contending these next 3 seasons.

But it makes zero sense with where we are at.

 

[F A N]

Miller does have 4 goals 5 points in 7 games. I think the speculation that he has declined is premature.

Personally, I think his extension is what any team would have / should have expected so I actually think the fact that he is signed makes him more valuable to most teams than being a potential pure rental.

 

[tantalum]

Miller does have 4 goals 5 points in 7 games. I think the speculation that he has declined is premature.

Personally, I think his extension is what any team would have / should have expected so I actually think the fact that he is signed makes him more valuable to most teams than being a potential pure rental.

I don't think anyone is really saying Miller has declined. The concern doesn't stem from his ability but his attitude. If JT Miller wants to be an impactful player I have no doubt he can still be an impactful player. But right now JT Miller is getting dummied at ES and his attention to detail is severely lacking. Well all players not named Pettersson and Kuzmenko (when with Pettersson) are getting dummied.

However, I don't believe in any world that a 7 year extension makes him more valuable. Rentals have a lot of value for a reason...teams don't need to worry about the tagging room in subsequent years when they make the deal among other things. Unless the player will still be cost controlled (i.e. the contract is lower than the player role; player will remain RFA after contract) I don't think extensions help trade value.

 

[F A N]

However, I don't believe in any world that a 7 year extension makes him more valuable. Rentals have a lot of value for a reason...teams don't need to worry about the tagging room in subsequent years when they make the deal among other things. Unless the player will still be cost controlled (i.e. the contract is lower than the player role; player will remain RFA after contract) I don't think extensions help trade value.

Teams (when it was previously allowed) did throw in conditional picks if a player resigns. An example is when Kane was traded to San Jose. So I can imagine a world where a signed Miller would have more value to a team than if he was a pending UFA. We don't have to agree on this of course.

 

[ottawa]

What's the injury situation like, how long is he out?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

What on earth is going on with his skating?

Is he playing through an injury? Out of shape?

 

[credulous]

newborn is keeping him up all night. we just need his kids to age up to 6-7+ and he'll stop being distracted by them

 

[4Twenty]

What on earth is going on with his skating?

Is he playing through an injury? Out of shape?

My theory. Out of shape.

No off-season training - that’s why they caved on some contractual demands to push the extension through.

Had to capitalize on the career season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

My theory. Out of shape.

No off-season training - that’s why they caved on some contractual demands to push the extension through.

Had to capitalize on the career season.

Bold move going in to a contract year.

 

[MikeK]

What on earth is going on with his skating?

Is he playing through an injury? Out of shape?

He'll be 30 years old in the spring and was never an elite level player. He's definitely past his prime years and his best games are likely behind him. We're going to start seeing regression with Miller and I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. His extension will go down as one of the worst contracts this Franchise has ever handed out. Just a terrible contract and one this fan base will hate for years to come. I shudder to think how he's going to look at 32yrs old and just 2 years into his new contract. Disgusting.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

He'll be 30 years old in the spring and was never an elite level player. He's definitely past his prime years and his best games are likely behind him. We're going to start seeing regression with Miller and I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. His extension will go down as one of the worst contracts this Franchise has ever handed out. Just a terrible contract and one this fan base will hate for years to come. I shudder to think how he's going to look at 32yrs old and just 2 years into his new contract. Disgusting.

I refuse to believe he forgot how to skate over the summer.

He is not as bad as he has looked so far... The rest I agree. Maybe not the worst contract we have signed but definitely a boat anchor deal that makes very little sense for a team that wont be competing for the cup in the first ~3 years of this extension.

 

[MikeK]

I refuse to believe he forgot how to skate over the summer.

He is not as bad as he has looked so far... The rest I agree. Maybe not the worst contract we have signed but definitely a boat anchor deal that makes very little sense for a team that wont be competing for the cup in the first ~3 years of this extension.

This is what regression looks like. It's doesn't happen all at once. It's a process that starts to look exactly like this. The foot speed is usually the first to go. Then the hands. Soon all that will be left is a hockey player with whatever hockey IQ he had. I guarantee things are not going to improve with Miller as time goes on. He's 30 yrs old this spring. He is a good hockey player, maybe even great. But he was never an elite level player so don't expect him to be some beast out there well into his 30s. I predict this next 2 years will be the last good years he has. We aren't going to see a 33yr old Miller out there leading the Canucks. Never going to happen.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This is what regression looks like. It's doesn't happen all at once. It's a process that starts to look exactly like this. The foot speed is usually the first to go. Then the hands. Soon all that will be left is a hockey player with whatever hockey IQ he had. I guarantee things are not going to improve with Miller as time goes on. He's 30 yrs old this spring. He is a good hockey player, maybe even great. But he was never an elite level player so don't expect him to be some beast out there well into his 30s. I predict this next 2 years will be the last good years he has. We aren't going to see a 33yr old Miller out there leading the Canucks. Never going to happen.

I wont.

I never bought in to his production last season.

 

[VanJack]

What amazes me is how the guys running the franchise continually look at this team with rose-colored glasses.

IMO the worst thing to happen with this team, was making the playoffs in the COVID year based on nothing more than winning percentage, when they were actually below the playoff bar.....then beating a bad Wild team and taking out a disinterested Blues team that had won the Cup the year before.

The on to last year...when against all the odds the Canucks went 32-15 down the stretch and closed within six points of a playoff spot. If you eliminate those two 'blips of success', this team would legitimately rank as one of the worst teams in the NHL over an eight-year period.

Seems to me that so many of the bad trades and awful UFA signings were based on the mistaken belief that this team was somehow ready to take the next step. And I put the re-signing of Miller in the same category. Should have dealt him when they had the chance.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

What amazes me is how the guys running the franchise continually look at this team with rose-colored glasses.

IMO the worst thing to happen with this team, was making the playoffs in the COVID year based on nothing more than winning percentage, when they were actually below the playoff bar.....then beating a bad Wild team and taking out a disinterested Blues team that had won the Cup the year before.

The on to last year...when against all the odds the Canucks went 32-15 down the stretch and closed within six points of a playoff spot. If you eliminate those two 'blips of success', this team would legitimately rank as one of the worst teams in the NHL over an eight-year period.

Seems to me that so many of the bad trades and awful UFA signings were based on the mistaken belief that this team was somehow ready to take the next step. And I put the re-signing of Miller in the same category. Should have dealt him when they had the chance.

I mean... We are.

 

[4Twenty]

I can’t be the only one lol’ing at van Jack remarking about rose coloured glasses. Go read his posts before this season started if you want to get the joke.

 

[Cancuks]

I don't think the team was ever considering dealing Miller. They looked at their roster and saw their center depth, thought it was the best in the league with Pettersson, Horvat, and Miller and thought they'd be contenders. Any defensive deficiencies would be overcome by simply outscoring every team and relaying on Demko to save them. It's a miracle this team didn't get off to a 5-0 start or something because we'd be looking at Horvat extended as well to another boat anchor of a contract. I think the Canucks are now desperately trying to move Miller before his NMC clause kicks in. They'll spin it if they manage to deal him as needing to change the core after their poor start. The return is going to be terrible and likely will require us taking back another large contract in return.

 

[credulous]

I don't think the team was ever considering dealing Miller. They looked at their roster and saw their center depth, thought it was the best in the league with Pettersson, Horvat, and Miller and thought they'd be contenders. Any defensive deficiencies would be overcome by simply outscoring every team and relaying on Demko to save them. It's a miracle this team didn't get off to a 5-0 start or something because we'd be looking at Horvat extended as well to another boat anchor of a contract. I think the Canucks are now desperately trying to move Miller before his NMC clause kicks in. They'll spin it if they manage to deal him as needing to change the core after their poor start. The return is going to be terrible and likely will require us taking back another large contract in return.

i think they did. there were too many rumours for it to not at least have been floated. i think when aquilini got word of the unimpressive return on offer he shut it down and insisted on an extension

management had confidence they could make cap room by dealing myers and garland and i think they probably assumed they could get marino out of pittsburgh or sign klingberg to a reasonable deal. myers and garland proved too hard to move without giving up pieces they weren't willing to give up or without taking back money and they ended up having to go into the season just kind of hoping the team could make things work because they lacked the ability to make any kind of significant changes beyond adding mikheyev and kuzmenko