Speculation: JT Miller, Part III

[Just A Bit Outside]

The length of time that is has taken (and will take) to get to the TDL, feels like the length of the pandemic.

Just give us the f***ing vaccine already.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

A 90pt 1C with another year at a low CAP hit doesn't net a blue chip prospect. You heard it here folks.

At least you're finally catching on

 

[GirardSpinorama]

A 90pt 1C with another year at a low CAP hit doesn't net a blue chip prospect. You heard it here folks.

No one values Miller as a 90 point 1C. Not even the Canucks GM according to rumors. No one would make a 90 point 1C avaliable.

 

[strattonius]

Look at my reply to someone else just before my reply here. The extra year is valuable in a trade, but in a trade involving a blue-chipper it is actually a deterrent.

It sounds like we sort of agree. Miller's market value is so high there's basically no market there at all. I wouldn't call this a 'deterrent'. It just means Vancouver will hold until there are more buyers competing (off-season or next TDL).

Eventually, Miller will return a blue chip prospect or he will be re-signed by Vancouver.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

It sounds like we sort of agree. Miller's market value is so high there's basically no market there at all. I wouldn't call this a 'deterrent'. It just means Vancouver will hold until there are more buyers competing (off-season or next TDL).

Eventually, Miller will return a blue chip prospect or he will be re-signed by Vancouver.

Or leave for UFA.

 

[strattonius]

No one values Miller as a 90 point 1C. Not even the Canucks GM according to rumors. No one would make a 90 point 1C avaliable.

I mean that's realistically what his numbers will be this year. You can keep denying it all you want.

There are many variables that any management team across the league has to compete with. To insinuate that ALL elite forwards are never traded is incorrect. Think smarter.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I mean that's realistically what his numbers will be this year. You can keep denying it all you want.

There are many variables that any management team across the league has to compete with. To insinuate that ALL elite forwards are never traded is incorrect. Think smarter.

To insinuate that JT Miller is a 90 point forward after half a season. I think you need to think smarter. Especially if you think GMs around the league share that opinion when the canucks GM clearly doesn't.

 

[dmac7719]

It sounds like we sort of agree. Miller's market value is so high there's basically no market there at all. I wouldn't call this a 'deterrent'. It just means Vancouver will hold until there are more buyers competing (off-season or next TDL).

Eventually, Miller will return a blue chip prospect or he will be re-signed by Vancouver.

I guess you missed that the part in my message where every player received for a blue-chipper either had long term deals in place already or resigned not long after being traded. With the shortest contract being 4 years.

 

[bh53]

To insinuate that JT Miller is a 90 point forward after half a season. I think you need to think smarter.

Think you missed JT Miller being over p/pg OVER 3 seasons instead of just "half a season". I think you need to do some research.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Think you missed JT Miller being over p/pg OVER 3 seasons instead of just "half a season". I think you need to do some research.

I didn't miss it. He hasn't been a C for 3 seasons and he hasn't been a 90 point guy for 3 seasons.

 

[Peen]

No one values Miller as a 90 point 1C. Not even the Canucks GM according to rumors. No one would make a 90 point 1C avaliable.

I think there's a few problems here.

Firstly, I don't like the description of Miller as a 1c. He's a 1LW/pinch 2c. Not defensively responsible enough to be a 1c on a true contender - then again, players like Schiefele are considered 1c without being defensively responsible. He's best on the wing for sure.

Secondly, he's done an 83 point pace cumulatively over the past three seasons while basically not missing any games. So, overall, I think saying PPG first line player is a fair assessment.

Thirdly, the there's ample reason to trade him

1. They don't believe they can re-sign him and that he'd rather be in the States
2. They think the cost to re-sign him is too expensive
3. We are asset poor - need to build up a wealth of assets for a competitive cycle
4. They need short term cap-relief to give them flexibility over the next six months
5. Rumors about how he fits in the locker room - maybe they just need a shake up. He said/she said on this topic
6. He's the best asset we have to move

Maybe management thinks they can get to where they need to be without trading Miller. I would be curious as to what that plan entails that would see us accumulate the asset wealth and capspace needed to be aggressive without dealing Miller. I don't see it as possible.

Edit: saying he hasn't been a C in 3 seasons is also just.. not true. He's played it for sustained periods over those three years. Whether that is his best position is a different story, and it also has not been where he has played the most - but he's definitely played it.

We needed JT Miller in 2010. It is what it is.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I think there's a few problems here.

Firstly, I don't like the description of Miller as a 1c. He's a 1LW/pinch 2c. Not defensively responsible enough to be a 1c on a true contender - then again, players like Schiefele are considered 1c without being defensively responsible. He's best on the wing for sure.

Secondly, he's done an 83 point pace cumulatively over the past three seasons while basically not missing any games. So, overall, I think saying PPG first line player is a fair assessment.

Thirdly, the there's ample reason to trade him

1. They don't believe they can re-sign him and that he'd rather be in the States
2. They think the cost to re-sign him is too expensive
3. We are asset poor - need to build up a wealth of assets for a competitive cycle
4. They need short term cap-relief to give them flexibility over the next six months
5. Rumors about how he fits in the locker room - maybe they just need a shake up. He said/she said on this topic
6. He's the best asset we have to move

Maybe management thinks they can get to where they need to be without trading Miller. I would be curious as to what that plan entails that would see us accumulate the asset wealth and capspace needed to be aggressive without dealing Miller. I don't see it as possible.

I think that's the most fair assessment. If he is kept past the deadline, I see him like a Duchene type asset (Duchene with Ottawa where he was having a great season). No one is cannibalizing their team for him but he'll be a valued asset for team that wants that kick in the ass for the playoffs.

 

[Peen]

I think that's the most fair assessment. If he is kept past the deadline, I see him like a Duchene type asset (Duchene with Ottawa where he was having a great season). No one is cannibalizing their team for him but he'll be a valued asset for team that wants that kick in the ass for the playoffs.

How many better forwards have been available at the TDL in the past ten years? The answer is a very small number.

I would salivate at the thought of getting him if I want to win now and I didn’t have some sort of insane LW/C depth.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

How many better forwards have been available at the TDL in the past ten years? The answer is a very small number.

I would salivate at the thought of getting him if I want to win now and I didn’t have some sort of insane LW/C depth.

Frothing but wanting to give up f*** all to get him.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

You’re acting like Miller is a top 15 player, there’s a lot of players below him in that point list I’d rather have and I’d guess you would too. Miller is almost 30 and only had 1.5 years left of team control. Not to mention the ask also isn’t just Newhook, it’s Newhook++. Colorado could land Crouse and Chychrun for the price Canucks fans are asking for Miller.

He is this year...are you insane? "Almost 30" what does that even mean? He's going to be 29 and has 5+ years of first line production him. There is no player on that list above Miller that's even remotely available. Sure there could be others you want more but zero chance they get moved, he's the most valuable asset on the market and it's not even close.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Look at my reply to someone else just before my reply here. The extra year is valuable in a trade, but in a trade involving a blue-chipper it is actually a deterrent.

It's really not. It's honestly hilarious that you think JT Miller can't get a blue chipper. A 1st line center top 12 in scoring who can penalty kill. Hilarious lol.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

I think there's a few problems here.

Firstly, I don't like the description of Miller as a 1c. He's a 1LW/pinch 2c. Not defensively responsible enough to be a 1c on a true contender - then again, players like Schiefele are considered 1c without being defensively responsible. He's best on the wing for sure.

Secondly, he's done an 83 point pace cumulatively over the past three seasons while basically not missing any games. So, overall, I think saying PPG first line player is a fair assessment.

Thirdly, the there's ample reason to trade him

1. They don't believe they can re-sign him and that he'd rather be in the States
2. They think the cost to re-sign him is too expensive
3. We are asset poor - need to build up a wealth of assets for a competitive cycle
4. They need short term cap-relief to give them flexibility over the next six months
5. Rumors about how he fits in the locker room - maybe they just need a shake up. He said/she said on this topic
6. He's the best asset we have to move

Maybe management thinks they can get to where they need to be without trading Miller. I would be curious as to what that plan entails that would see us accumulate the asset wealth and capspace needed to be aggressive without dealing Miller. I don't see it as possible.

Edit: saying he hasn't been a C in 3 seasons is also just.. not true. He's played it for sustained periods over those three years. Whether that is his best position is a different story, and it also has not been where he has played the most - but he's definitely played it.

We needed JT Miller in 2010. It is what it is.

 

[strattonius]

To insinuate that JT Miller is a 90 point forward after half a season. I think you need to think smarter. Especially if you think GMs around the league share that opinion when the canucks GM clearly doesn't.

What exactly has Vancouver's GM said about Miller that is so damning to you? You've brought it up twice. All I've heard is that he's an extremely valuable asset and the teams best forward.

GMs around the league see a top point producing Center that does it all and has a very valuable contract.

Over the last 3 seasons Miller is 15th in NHL scoring - ahead of players like Gaudreau, Ovechkin, Rantanen, Tkachuk, Kopitar. The list goes on. This is a premium asset. Either pony up or shut up.

 

[strattonius]

What exactly has Vancouver's GM said about Miller that is so damning to you? You've brought it up twice. All I've heard is that he's an extremely valuable asset and the teams best forward.

GMs around the league see a top point producing Center that does it all and has a very valuable contract.

Over the last 3 seasons Miller is 15th in NHL scoring - ahead of players like Gaudreau, Ovechkin, Rantanen, Tkachuk, Kopitar. The list goes on. This is a premium asset. Either pony up or shut up.

No idea why it attached my failed wordle attempt. Sorry for that haha.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Number 1 is true
Number 2 is partial truth depends on money
Numbers 3 to 6 are total crap reasons.

You do not get asset rich or cap benefits from trading a top asset on great contract for lesser assets.

To summarize only trade if will not resign to market contract or an offer overwhelms you. Simple. Again we have 15 plus assets I would trade before Miller and who I would trade to keep Miller. Horvat, Boeser and Garland are 3 of those assets but obviously there are 10 others I would give away for free first.

 

[elitepete]

I think Miller could return a bluechip prospect, but there wouldn't be much else to the trade. It would be something like Turcotte/Rossi+2nd

 

[arttk]

No one values Miller as a 90 point 1C. Not even the Canucks GM according to rumors. No one would make a 90 point 1C avaliable.

Have you seen how f***ed our cap is?
There is a reason we need to shed cap.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

I think Miller could return a bluechip prospect, but there wouldn't be much else to the trade. It would be something like Turcotte/Rossi+2nd

Rossi is untouchable. Wild aren't trading him . Like at all

 

[Freudian]

A 90pt 1C with another year at a low CAP hit doesn't net a blue chip prospect. You heard it here folks.

We also heard that a player with a career high of 72 points being a 90 point center, so I guess everything can happen in this thread.

 

[strattonius]

We also heard that a player with a career high of 72 points being a 90 point center, so I guess everything can happen in this thread.

He's on a 92 pt pace this year.

If we widen the sample size to the last 3 seasons he has 179pts in 176 games.

I don't think it's far fetched at all to say he is a 90 pt fwd.

Also, that 72 pt season high was in 69 games. I mean, his entire prime has been during shortened seasons, so it's not like we're talking about an injury prone player here.

If that reply was your best ammo or 'quip', you better reload with something better.