Value of: JT Miller for the 2nd OA pick- What additions would be needed

[Jerzey Devil]

You would have though watching him in the playoffs a few years ago would open some eyes for a lot of people out east, But here we are.

JT Miller is probably the most underrated Star forward in the league, People still think hes the same player he was 4 years ago when he got basically zero PP opportunity.

Then you have to wonder why the Canucks want to get rid of him so bad. If the Canucks are further along in their rebuild than NJ then wouldn’t it make more sense for them to keep him than for a team like NJ to trade for him?

 

[Canucks LB]

Then you have to wonder why the Canucks want to get rid of him so bad. If the Canucks are further along in their rebuild than NJ then wouldn’t it make more sense for them to keep him than for a team like NJ to trade for him?

Because we have Bo Horvat, Brock Boeser, and EP40 to sign.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Watch more hockey in the past few years

I watch plenty. Hes not top 20 in the game, not even close to anyone but Canucks fans.

 

[Canucks LB]

I watch plenty. Hes not top 20 in the game, not even close to anyone but Canucks fans.

With all due Respect,
Feel free to give me a list of 20 Forwards who are better than JT Miller.

 

[BWJM]

Come on, People overrate draft picks so much here, its getting criminal

This.

The draft is luck. Doesn't matter what spot you pick. You just have less chance to screw up the higher you pick.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

With all due Respect,
Feel free to give me a list of 20 Forwards who are better than JT Miller.

so now its top 20 forwards? Not top 20 players? Hmm the goalposts are moving!! Anyways:

Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Auston Matthews
Nathan MacKinnon
Jonathan Huberdeau
Mikko Rantanen
Alex Barkov
Nikita Kucherov
Kirill Kaprizov
Sidney Crosby (yes, still)
Alex Ovechkin (yes, still)
Patrick Kane (yes, still)
Brad Marchand
David Pastrnak
Johnny Gaudreau
Mitch Marner
Artemi Panarin
Kyle Connor
Steven Stamkos
Mark Stone

that was easy.

 

[Takurcitee]

so now its top 20 forwards? Not top 20 players? Hmm the goalposts are moving!! Anyways:

Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Auston Matthews
Nathan MacKinnon
Jonathan Huberdeau
Mikko Rantanen
Alex Barkov
Nikita Kucherov
Kirill Kaprizov
Sidney Crosby (yes, still)
Alex Ovechkin (yes, still)
Patrick Kane (yes, still)
Brad Marchand
David Pastrnak
Johnny Gaudreau
Mitch Marner
Artemi Panarin
Kyle Connor
Steven Stamkos
Mark Stone

that was easy.

There is at least 10 more who are definitely better

 

[Forge]

First off, does the possibility of a sign and trade even exist? Can someone confirm when a player with one year left one his deal is eligible to sign an extension? Is that before or after the draft?

He can't sign a new deal until after the draft -

Meanwhile, franchise-defining decisions loom on players like restricted free agent Brock Boeser and key top-six workhorses Bo Horvat and J.T. Miller, who become eligible to sign extensions on July 13.

 

[OrangePMD]

First off, does the possibility of a sign and trade even exist? Can someone confirm when a player with one year left one his deal is eligible to sign an extension? Is that before or after the draft?

I can't confirm, but it did work that way last year with the Seth Jones trade. Usually the draft is in june, and free agency and season roll over on july 1st. So, I'm assuming it's the same way this year, as it was last year.

 

[Canucks LB]

so now its top 20 forwards? Not top 20 players? Hmm the goalposts are moving!! Anyways:

Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Auston Matthews
Nathan MacKinnon
Jonathan Huberdeau
Mikko Rantanen
Alex Barkov
Nikita Kucherov
Kirill Kaprizov
Sidney Crosby (yes, still)
Alex Ovechkin (yes, still)
Patrick Kane (yes, still)
Brad Marchand
David Pastrnak
Johnny Gaudreau
Mitch Marner
Artemi Panarin
Kyle Connor
Steven Stamkos
Mark Stone

that was easy.

Once again, I think you’re confusing me with Cogburn.
I never said once he was a top 20 player in the game, But I certainly believe he’s a top 20 Forward

 

[BB88]

When was the last time a 2nd OV was traded? When was the last time a 99 pt player was traded? Also, pretty obvious this would only be a starting point if An extension was in place for Miller

Keep him and sign him then

 

[Cogburn]

so now its top 20 forwards? Not top 20 players? Hmm the goalposts are moving!! Anyways:

Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Auston Matthews
Nathan MacKinnon
Jonathan Huberdeau
Mikko Rantanen
Alex Barkov
Nikita Kucherov
Kirill Kaprizov
Sidney Crosby (yes, still)
Alex Ovechkin (yes, still)
Patrick Kane (yes, still)
Brad Marchand
David Pastrnak
Johnny Gaudreau
Mitch Marner
Artemi Panarin
Kyle Connor
Steven Stamkos
Mark Stone

that was easy.

So what are the parameters you're using to declare these guys better? A number of these guys are out performed in most or all categories I care about by Miller, and others seem to do better in exactly one area (goal scoring for instance). Are we factoring in team performance here? Quality of line mates or competition? Or how these guys performed 5 years ago? Advanced and possession stats?

Or is this all to do with opinions based an eye test, given the split of East and West here?

 

[BB88]

So let's get this straight.
As a Rental, Okay sure, NJD would pass for sure.
But if it's a Sign and trade?
Getting a 3 positional gritty forward 99 point player for a 2nd overall pick in one of the worst drafts arguably in a decade, is not fair value?

Come on, People overrate draft picks so much here, its getting criminal

Absolutely not.

Miller at best has 2-3 elite years left.

Rebuilding team doesn’t trade 2nd for that

 

[TBF1972]

Or is this all to do with opinions based an eye test, given the split of East and West here?

maybe this are just the first 20 names zbc came up with and not the full list of players better than jt miller. if you are not happy with the list strike players out of it with good reasons.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Then you have to wonder why the Canucks want to get rid of him so bad. If the Canucks are further along in their rebuild than NJ then wouldn’t it make more sense for them to keep him than for a team like NJ to trade for him?

Feel like every thread we answer this question. It’s clear that you guys either don’t read or prefer to come up with your own narrative.

We DO want to keep him. But not at $8-9M per. We have 2 capable top 2 centres, if that’s the case (miller would be a luxury we cannot afford). As well, from the sounds of it miller may not be interested in resigning here (likely wants to go back to US to wrap his career).

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Which is why a Miller + 15OA for 2OA was suggested. Jersey gets Miller and still a decent first.

That's still terrible.

 

[Cogburn]

maybe this are just the first 20 names zbc came up with and not the full list of players better than jt miller. if you are not happy with the list strike players out of it with good reasons.

Barkov for one. Superb player, but in every stat except face off he lags.

Marner is an offensive dynamo, but his possession and defensive game leave a lot to be desired.

Kane was never a multifaceted player, but he has come down to an 82.4% offensive zone start (this is just the most shocking swing in his stats, but it is backed up with others) with the same number of goals and a whopping 25 assists more to show.

Connor is in a similar boat, where he might be the more talented offensive player (despite Miller out scoring Connor by a single point in the three years since Miller joined the Canucks) but possession and defensive stats, as well as other measurements likes hits for physicality, are all behind Miller.

Stone has fewer points, both per game and total due to injuries, and despite all of the fan fare of his defensive play is putting up similar or numbers overall to Miller, who also received a few Selke votes.

I said I see him as top 20, not necessarily higher that 15+, so I'm not going to get into guys like Crosby or Stamkos, who most of my negatives have to do with games missed, or how some of the production and better stats from some guys like Huberdeau/Barkov, Marchand/Pastrnak. Rantanen/MacKinnon, Kucherov/Stamkos or even Marner/Matthews all benefitting from insane chemistry year in year out (that's a chicken and egg thing for me, are they good together because of their talent, or do they appear more talented because they they are good together). Yes, Pettersson and Boeser made for a great line for us for a while, but neither guy is in the same class as ZBC's list of 20.

That's still terrible.

I feel that's a huge overpayment from the Canucks side. That being said, I don't see any reason for New Jersey to move down, so maybe this thread just needs to be closed.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Feel like every thread we answer this question. It’s clear that you guys either don’t read or prefer to come up with your own narrative.

We DO want to keep him. But not at $8-9M per. We have 2 capable top 2 centres, if that’s the case (miller would be a luxury we cannot afford). As well, from the sounds of it miller may not be interested in resigning here (likely wants to go back to US to wrap his career).

Do you just assume everyone gives a shit about Vancouver’s situation? The only reason I’m here is because a Devils asset is being discussed.

 

[Cogburn]

Do you just assume everyone gives a shit about Vancouver’s situation? The only reason I’m here is because a Devils asset is being discussed.

It's not the first time Miller to the Devils has been brought up, but I guess you didn't care then when it was othe Devils assets being discussed repeatedly. We don't care if you give a shit about Vancouver's situation, but we assume you can read and don't have the memory of a gold fish if you're this invested. But we've all been proven wrong at some point I guess.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Do you just assume everyone gives a shit about Vancouver’s situation? The only reason I’m here is because a Devils asset is being discussed.

I honestly don’t even care if others do. It’s just annoying when other fan bases are trying to spin it as if there’s some underlying character flaw. .. or so it seems. Totally fine if devils don’t want miller but let’s get the facts straight.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

It's not the first time Miller to the Devils has been brought up, but I guess you didn't care then when it was othe Devils assets being discussed repeatedly. We don't care if you give a shit about Vancouver's situation, but we assume you can read and don't have the memory of a gold fish if you're this invested. But we've all been proven wrong at some point I guess.

Again you shouldn’t just assume we’ve all been a part of those threads.

I honestly don’t even care if others do. It’s just annoying when other fan bases are trying to spin it as if there’s some underlying character flaw. .. or so it seems. Totally fine if devils don’t want miller but let’s get the facts straight.

Just seems like the kind of player Vancouver should be keeping unless they’re worried about the timeline. But if the timeline doesn’t fit with Vancouver why would it fit with NJ?

If the devils were deep in a cup run for the foreseeable future then I’d love to have Miller at z reasonable price. He’s a great player. Not a good fit for the Devils at this point.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Again you shouldn’t just assume we’ve all been a part of those threads.


Just seems like the kind of player Vancouver should be keeping unless they’re worried about the timeline. But if the timeline doesn’t fit with Vancouver why would it fit with NJ?

If the devils were deep in a cup run for the foreseeable future then I’d love to have Miller at z reasonable price. He’s a great player. Not a good fit for the Devils at this point.

Fair enough… I was never trying to advocate Miller to devils. You already have Hughes and hischier down the middle. But could be a good veteran player you could slot in on the wing. Good to have a bit of mix of vets with experience. But either way no love lost if it’s not the devils trading for him.

 

[Cogburn]

Again you shouldn’t just assume we’ve all been a part of those threads.

But they involved Devils' assets...which is the only reason you're here. That's a good enough reason to come in here and celebrate your own ignorance now, so it should have been then, yes?

 

[Jerzey Devil]

But they involved Devils' assets...which is the only reason you're here. That's a good enough reason to come in here and celebrate your own ignorance now, so it should have been then, yes?

Yeah I’m not involved in single Devils related thread on here, sorry. Why are you so salty? Sit on your keys or something?

 

[Cogburn]

Yeah I’m not involved in single Devils related thread on here, sorry. Why are you so salty? Sit on your keys or something?

Proudly flouting your ignorance while still making the same lame comments that get repeated, while not doing the barest minimum to understand anything does that.