Prospect Info: Joshua Roy Part 2

[Wats]

When Subban was recalled, he was our best dman in the playoff.

He never looked back and was a stud D for the rest of his career.

Pacioretty had brief stint in the AHL.

Lets hope Roy keeps it up and have a similar showing when he is called up. If Roy can have a similar 14 goals and 10 assist in 37 games when called up we should be very excited.

NHL talent dont sleep long, uncovered in the AHL. Lets hope he is one.

Pacioretty was called up too soon at age 20 after few decent AHL games and struggled in the NHL, looked like a 3rd liner. Even though he played in the NHL session before, Gainey sent him down in in his 3rd ELC year to improve his game and it paid off a ton. He turned into a big scorer and was probably the best player in the AHL until he was called up. He continued that momentum for the rest of his career. Pacioretty had 17 goals and 32 points in 27 games before final call up, 82 AHL games total. Even Toffoli (Roy's comparable IMO) and Mark Stone played more games.

No need for Roy to join Slafkovsky in this dumpster of a lineup yet. There's a ton of games left and there will be a lot of injuries soon enough as usual.

Lots of NHLers dominated almost full year in AHL before being called up and had great careers... everyone says Subban has character issues but he tried his hardest and was AHL star. IF Roy pouts like Sergei Kostitsyn/Drouin to be called up and stops trying in the AHL, he likely will end up the same way and not have a good NHL career. Roy hasn't even hit 20 AHL games.

 

[morhilane]

Subban and Pacioretty both played a full season in the AHL

And no, the team isn't going to bench Pearson.

Pacioretty had 34 NHL games in his first pro year, despite not even being ppg in the AHL until his 3rd pro season. He's not a comparable for what Roy is doing right now.

 

[StCaufield]

Pacioretty had 34 NHL games in his first pro year, despite not even being ppg in the AHL until his 3rd pro season. He's not a comparable for what Roy is doing right now.

I’d argue that their mental state could be similar but that’s a total guess

 

[Scriptor]

I wouldn't even mind if he spends all year next year in Laval to continue to get more and more explosive.

Next year, when we have Suzuki, Dach, Monahan down the middle, let Dvo play with Suzuki and Caufield to get his trade value up.

Caufield Suzuki Dvo
Newhook Dach Slaf
RHP Monahan Anderson
Gallagher Evans Ylonen/Pez/Heineman

Caufield - Suzuki - XXX
Newhook - Dach - Slaf
RHP - Dvorak - Anderson
Pezzetta/Ylonen - Evans - Gallagher

Pearson will be gone and, most likely, as much as I like him, Monahan.

We'll most likely see Dvorak between RHP and Anderson, three players who will be able to complement each other.

IMO, Dvorak will increase his value better in a role a suitor will be getting him for rather than an inflated production in a role he will never play.

Although some GMs are definitely stupid (from past actions), I'm pretty sure someone in their organization (the towel boy, maybe) will be smart enough to point out that Dvorak's point production will surely nose-dive once he plays the role expected of him with his new team.

There's an argument tone made to move up a player when they are ready to be challenged elsewhere than where they currently are.

Some argument has been made that Ylonen started the season in Montreal because he had given everything at the AHL level and nothing else to gain by playing at that level again.

We must also be careful not to get a propspect to plateauing his development.

Being in Laval won't help Roy become more explosive on its own and he can learn to become more explosive with more regular input from Nicolas and his minions in Montreal, IMO.

Let's just seesaw the rest of the year goes for Roy first...

 

[DAChampion]

When Subban was recalled, he was our best dman in the playoff.

He never looked back and was a stud D for the rest of his career.

Pacioretty had brief stint in the AHL.

Lets hope Roy keeps it up and have a similar showing when he is called up. If Roy can have a similar 14 goals and 10 assist in 37 games when called up we should be very excited.

NHL talent dont sleep long, uncovered in the AHL. Lets hope he is one.

Pacioretty played 87 AHL games.

 

[Scriptor]

I’d argue that their mental state could be similar but that’s a total guess

That's unclear. In what way?

Right now, it sounds like saying, "I'd argue their left toes might be the same, but that's a total guess."

Pacioretty played 87 AHL games.

He would have played less and become a great 4th liner if he hadn't insisted on returning to play a prominent role (with his buddy DD, if I recall correctly) rather than play a limited role in Montreal.

Probably figured, "Big guy with a big shot, I'll surely get a role somewhere else than Montreal if it doesn't work out here."

 

[DAChampion]

That's unclear. In what way?

Right now, it sounds like saying, "I'd argue their left toes might be the same, but that's a total guess."


He would have played less and become a great 4th liner if he hadn't insisted on returning to play a prominent role (with his buddy DD, if I recall correctly) rather than play a limited role in Montreal.

Probably figured, "Big guy with a big shot, I'll surely get a role somewhere else than Montreal if it doesn't work out here."

Pacioretty is one of the best recent examples of development mattering.

He had a moderately long road to the NHL, and exceeded what people thought he could be in part by transforming his game between the ages of 18 and 21. He became more of a shooter and less of a passer.

He even exceeded what Timmins thought he could be. A full year after being drafted, Timmins said that Pacioretty would become like Shayne Corson. He became a lot better.

 

[26Mats]

Caufield - Suzuki - XXX
Newhook - Dach - Slaf
RHP - Dvorak - Anderson
Pezzetta/Ylonen - Evans - Gallagher

Pearson will be gone and, most likely, as much as I like him, Monahan.

We'll most likely see Dvorak between RHP and Anderson, three players who will be able to complement each other.

IMO, Dvorak will increase his value better in a role a suitor will be getting him for rather than an inflated production in a role he will never play.

Although some GMs are definitely stupid (from past actions), I'm pretty sure someone in their organization (the towel boy, maybe) will be smart enough to point out that Dvorak's point production will surely nose-dive once he plays the role expected of him with his new team.

There's an argument tone made to move up a player when they are ready to be challenged elsewhere than where they currently are.

Some argument has been made that Ylonen started the season in Montreal because he had given everything at the AHL level and nothing else to gain by playing at that level again.

We must also be careful not to get a propspect to plateauing his development.

Being in Laval won't help Roy become more explosive on its own and he can learn to become more explosive with more regular input from Nicolas and his minions in Montreal, IMO.

Let's just seesaw the rest of the year goes for Roy first...

I hope we get to see RHP-Dvo-Anderson this year. Because I'm not convinced it will work. Dvo just isn't good enough offensively for me to want him to lead one of our top 3 lines.

I'd keep Monahan in a heart beat if I thought there was a good chance he could stay healthy. That is something also to monitor over the next 40 games.

 

[StCaufield]

That's unclear. In what way?

Right now, it sounds like saying, "I'd argue their left toes might be the same, but that's a total guess."


He would have played less and become a great 4th liner if he hadn't insisted on returning to play a prominent role (with his buddy DD, if I recall correctly) rather than play a limited role in Montreal.

Probably figured, "Big guy with a big shot, I'll surely get a role somewhere else than Montreal if it doesn't work out here."

Ni I’m saying young kids coming into the nhl might be fragile mentally which could go for Roy and Pacioretty. It’s unclear to us both because we aren’t psychologists

 

[Scriptor]

Pacioretty is one of the best recent examples of development mattering.

He had a moderately long road to the NHL, and exceeded what people thought he could be in part by transforming his game between the ages of 18 and 21. He became more of a shooter and less of a passer.

He even exceeded what Timmins thought he could be. A full year after being drafted, Timmins said that Pacioretty would become like Shayne Corson. He became a lot better.

While I agree with you, I'll still argue that, if he had more bulldog like Corson in him, he would have been one of the best all-around players in the NHL. Peripheretty didn't have enough of a mean bone in him and lacked the desire to pay the price to produce at a higher level, preferring to beat opponents on the outside and rely on his Grade A shot to score.

Pacioretty needed a monster, physical line mate playing with him to up his own physical game, as we saw with him playing alongside Cole and little of it after Cole was gone.

Even when drafted, nobody expected a pass first winger like Pacioretty to become one of the most prolific scorers in the NHLover a 5-year span. Development throughout ages 18-21, at least, maybe more in some cases, can transform a player.

We've seen this with Roy earlier in his career so far and more can still come next year. Roy went from a more unidimensional, N/S, offensive player before joining the ranks Junior hockey, to a gradually more creative offensive player and, then, a more complete all-around player, adding a genuine drive to get better to an already high hockey IQ.

The relationship with his coach in Sherbrooke helped turn everything around

I hope we get to see RHP-Dvo-Anderson this year. Because I'm not convinced it will work. Dvo just isn't good enough offensively for me to want him to lead one of our top 3 lines.

I'd keep Monahan in a heart beat if I thought there was a good chance he could stay healthy. That is something also to monitor over the next 40 games.

I lean towards team re-sign Monahan if he can stay healthy, but, unlike you, I think Dvorak can work well with less refined N/S players like Anderson and a smart player like RHP, who has a knack at finding the right place to be on the ice to complement his line mates.

Dvorak is a strong puck possession player who isn't afraid to camp in the opposing G's paint and who can contribute to a strong cycle game with Josh and the fearless Harvey-Pinard.

If nothing else, this line will get dirty goals and scoring opportunities from the time they spend with the puck in the O-zone.

Come playoff time, spending time the O-zone is important, even of your line doesn't score, because it wears out opposing Ds and allows your better players to expose themas the game wears on.

Dvorak showing those skills off on a third line with Anderson and RHP will raise his value in the eyes of potential suitors looking for depth that can play an important role in the playoffs.

Dvorak's F/O skills will also help provide value for the veteran C in a potential trade.

Teams like TB have paid 1st round picks for depth players that can play a role in the playoffs.

 

[417]

Pacioretty is one of the best recent examples of development mattering.

He had a moderately long road to the NHL, and exceeded what people thought he could be in part by transforming his game between the ages of 18 and 21. He became more of a shooter and less of a passer.

He even exceeded what Timmins thought he could be. A full year after being drafted, Timmins said that Pacioretty would become like Shayne Corson. He became a lot better.

I think Pacioretty is a perfect example of a player developing at HIS pace.

His road wasn't moderately long to the NHL.

He was drafted in 2007 and by 2010 he broke out. 86 NHL games + 82 AHL games spread out over 3 years.

It's our impatience as fans that convinces us that a particular player isn't developing, simply because he doesn't meet our timeline.

 

[26Mats]

You need to give up your dream of Dvo playing on the top line lol. He's a #3 C, that's it, that's all.

I've given up on the dream. But not because I don't believe in it. More because I know MSL won't do it.

BUT since Dach has established himself as a C, we have never seen what MSL will do with a healthy Suzuki, Dach, Monahan, Evan's, and Dvo. Maybe the dream isn't dead yet after all. If Monahan re-signs and Dvo isn't traded, we'll see what MSL will do next year...

 

[Scriptor]

Ni I’m saying young kids coming into the nhl might be fragile mentally which could go for Roy and Pacioretty. It’s unclear to us both because we aren’t psychologists

Thanks. Now I get your point. Couldn't read your mind before.

I'm less concerned about Roy being fragile, mentally, because he has raised his game every step the way so far -- especially as the stakes got higher -- in his development and because he has produced at much higher clip than Pacioretty along the way.

Roy sounds like a gamer, but, if he hits a wall, initially, at the NHL level, who knows how he will react? Thankfully, with MSL,Nicolas and the development team, I think the issue will be addressed properly...

 

[Scriptor]

Pacioretty is one of the best recent examples of development mattering.

He had a moderately long road to the NHL, and exceeded what people thought he could be in part by transforming his game between the ages of 18 and 21. He became more of a shooter and less of a passer.

He even exceeded what Timmins thought he could be. A full year after being drafted, Timmins said that Pacioretty would become like Shayne Corson. He became a lot better.

While I agree with you, I'll still argue that, if he had more bulldog like Corson in him, he would have been one of the best all-around players in the NHL. Peripheretty didn't have enough of a mean bone in him and lacked the desire to pay the price to produce at a higher level, preferring to beat opponents on the outside and rely on his Grade A shot to score.

Pacioretty needed a monster, physical line mate playing with him to up his own physical game, as we saw with him playing alongside Cole and little of it after Cole was gone.

Even when drafted, nobody expected a pass first winger like Pacioretty to become one of the most prolific scorers in the NHLover a 5-year span. Development throughout ages 18-21, at least, maybe more in some cases, can transform a player.

We've seen this with Roy earlier in his career so far and more can still come next year. Roy went from a more unidimensional, N/S, offensive player before joining the ranks Junior hockey, to a gradually more creative offensive player and, then, a more complete all-around player, adding a genuine drive to get better to an already high hockey IQ.

The relationship with his coach in Sherbrooke helped turn everything around, but the player had tone willing tout in the work to improve, rather than just coast on his skillset.

Like what I see from Roy.I think he will be an unexpected killer at the NHL level if playing with skilled players, the glue that makes a line gel, IMO, because the player can adapt to other styles.

 

[Jaynki]

Pacioretty played 87 AHL games.

Over three season where he also played 123 NHL games

 

[Jaynki]

Pacioretty was called up too soon at age 20 after few decent AHL games and struggled in the NHL, looked like a 3rd liner. Even though he played in the NHL session before, Gainey sent him down in in his 3rd ELC year to improve his game and it paid off a ton. He turned into a big scorer and was probably the best player in the AHL until he was called up. He continued that momentum for the rest of his career. Pacioretty had 17 goals and 32 points in 27 games before final call up, 82 AHL games total. Even Toffoli (Roy's comparable IMO) and Mark Stone played more games.

No need for Roy to join Slafkovsky in this dumpster of a lineup yet. There's a ton of games left and there will be a lot of injuries soon enough as usual.

Lots of NHLers dominated almost full year in AHL before being called up and had great careers... everyone says Subban has character issues but he tried his hardest and was AHL star. IF Roy pouts like Sergei Kostitsyn/Drouin to be called up and stops trying in the AHL, he likely will end up the same way and not have a good NHL career. Roy hasn't even hit 20 AHL games.

Agree with pretty much everything.

Just want to add that most of NHLers top six player are NHL regulars in their D+3. Roughly 5 out of 6.

Roy is at a juncture in his career where he has to perform like he is right now in a consistent fashion and he will have to seize the occasion when he is called up otherwise it will start to look like Charles Hudon and the clock will start to tick loud. Other prospects will start pushing and thats excluding potential FA/trade acquisition.

 

[Tyson]

Roy is learning the tricks of the trade. Road games have been a challenge for him.
I personally think Roy would benefit of 2 seasons in the AHL. I see no reasons to rush him. He still needs an uptick in his skating which I think will come. His skating has improved drastically since his draft year. The kid is determined and needs patience.

 

[jiboy]

Hes bigger stronger and a much better passer than Hudon

Hes also pretty good defensively

I expect good things from Roy he reminds me of Joe Pavelski with his skills and IQ coupled with mid foot speed.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Pacioretty had 34 NHL games in his first pro year, despite not even being ppg in the AHL until his 3rd pro season. He's not a comparable for what Roy is doing right now.

He's a comparable for Slaf.

I think there is room for Roy to improve his skating. To me, he plays the game like Suzuki did back in junior. He plays at a slower and more deliberate pace. That needs to change (and is changing).

I think he can improve his speed just by small changes in his game.

 

[Scriptor]

He's a comparable for Slaf.

I think there is room for Roy to improve his skating. To me, he plays the game like Suzuki did back in junior. He plays at a slower and more deliberate pace. That needs to change (and is changing).

I think he can improve his speed just by small changes in his game.

We mustn't confuse speed with pace. Suzuki was sent back down to Juniors and asked to increase his pace. Roy is increasing his pace.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

We mustn't confuse speed with pace. Suzuki was sent back down to Juniors and asked to increase his pace. Roy is increasing his pace.

100% agree. Roy plays the game at a slower pace and that needs to change (and is changing). I wonder what his top speed is. You don't get to see it because he doesn't try to use it.

 

[Jaynki]

Roy is learning the tricks of the trade. Road games have been a challenge for him.
I personally think Roy would benefit of 2 seasons in the AHL. I see no reasons to rush him. He still needs an uptick in his skating which I think will come. His skating has improved drastically since his draft year. The kid is determined and needs patience.

I understand your point but that may end up a problem for Roy if he needs another two year.

Slafkovsky, Dach, Caufield, Suzuki, Newhook are already regular constituent of our top 6.

Mesar is re-emerging from the death. Will he win a fight with Roy for a spot next year? We are drafting 8 overall right now and thats a player that may be one year away from the NHL(would fight with Roy in two years). Will we go on the FA or trade market for a young top six forward?

I don't want to bet against Roy because of his age, offensive skills and performance right now but he does not have a two year window in front of him to establish his place in the line-up. He has to seize the opportunity when we obviously call him up this season.

 

[Andrei79]

Agree with pretty much everything.

Just want to add that most of NHLers top six player are NHL regulars in their D+3. Roughly 5 out of 6.

Roy is at a juncture in his career where he has to perform like he is right now in a consistent fashion and he will have to seize the occasion when he is called up otherwise it will start to look like Charles Hudon and the clock will start to tick loud. Other prospects will start pushing and thats excluding potential FA/trade acquisition.

Where does this stat come from ? For example, Vegas had only 1, two if you're stretching it, last year. It makes sense that the best will come into the league sooner, but I've never seen this stat before.

 

[Jaynki]

Where does this stat come from ? For example, Vegas had only 1, two if you're stretching it, last year. It makes sense that the best will come into the league sooner, but I've never seen this stat before.

I pulled it out of my ass. Well i actually did a non-chalant research into pretty much every team top 6 but yeah apart from Eichel, VGK next one is Stone as a regular in his D+4. I

But roughly looking at it, players will sometimes have one or two NCAA years like Cutter Gauthier and then jump right in. Or junior player will have 1 or 2 year and jump right in too like Suzuki.

Majority of player goes this way but yeah its not an outlier as it happen frequently that player are not regular in their D+3.

The D+4 appears to be a real cutter tho for NHLers. Player who are not regular in their D+4 on rare occasions have amounted to top six players. Now these one are real outlier.

Hence is why i argue Roy has to keep up and seize every opportunity this season because if he don't he likely has one last opportunity in 2024-2025 with probably more competition.

 

[Mrb1p]

Its crazy that theres still negative and tentative comments in Roy . This board couldnt collectively identify water as water even if they saw it coming out of a tap.