Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1” - Part 2

[Alex1234]

I guess maybe they needed a tie breaker after seeing the first four guys...

Totally normal to consult with colleagues to make sure you leave no stone unturned
There was probably a specialist of the rotator cuff, one for the labrum, one for the glenoid, etc
Good news I think

 

[jbeck5]

I argued to re-sign Paul & keep C. Brown while most argued against it because they were going to be too expensive & Joseph some said was just as good if not better. Seems they were wrong again, while I still think it was a big mistake to lose Paul, Brown was a different issue. He publicly announced he would seek free agency & I doubt any team would want to keep a guy on the roster who didn't want to be here & potentially being a distraction.

They want players who want to be here long term & signed a number of their young players to long contracts. I liked Brown & wanted to keep him, but certainly understand he wanted to move on & they did the right thing for him & the team. They also replaced his numbers with the addition of Giroux & DeBrincat & if they can get this guy scoring again we would quickly forget about Brown. Losing Paul was the bigger mistake given the problems they have had losing centres & Paul can play both LW & centre & Paul has had his detractors on here too.


Norris has been one of their best faceoff guys & much better than Stutzle.

Well, according to him and Pinto, faceoffs take too much of a toll on their shoulders when they aren't 100%.

 

[Nova Stutzlia]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I guess maybe they needed a tie breaker after seeing the first four guys...

If 3 / 5 Doctors told me to rehab it and see where it is in January, I'd probably go that route.



Not clear if 2 of the 5 were specialists or there were actually 7 doctors consulted.. I am assuming the specialists are doctors.. I think the message is that they consulted lots of doctors on this... and after flipping a coin they went with the rehab option.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Oh please be ok by January. Please.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Oh please be ok by January. Please.

It’s reevaluate in January to see where he is. He won’t be ready in January.

 

[Rand0m]

I'm curious if the decision to not do surgery was unanimous by those 5 (or 7) Doctors...

For the most part, severe shoulder injuries + rehab only is a recipe for repeated injuries.

 

[SpezDispenser]

It’s reevaluate in January to see where he is. He won’t be ready in January.

True

 

[PlayItAgain]

I'm curious if the decision to not do surgery was unanimous by those 5 (or 7) Doctors...

For the most part, severe shoulder injuries + rehab only is a recipe for repeated injuries.

i don’t know about the 5 doctors but Pierre said the 2 specialists were unanimous that surgery was not needed

 

[Golden_Jet]

i don’t know about the 5 doctors but Pierre said the 2 specialists were unanimous that surgery was not needed

Yep, also said 5 doctors also agreed , no surgery.

 

[Micklebot]

i don’t know about the 5 doctors but Pierre said the 2 specialists were unanimous that surgery was not needed

Well, that's good news I guess. Hopefully things progress well and they don't change their minds in Jan.

 

[Cosmix]

If 3 / 5 Doctors told me to rehab it and see where it is in January, I'd probably go that route.



Not clear if 2 of the 5 were specialists or there were actually 7 doctors consulted.. I am assuming the specialists are doctors.. I think the message is that they consulted lots of doctors on this... and after flipping a coin they went with the rehab option.

I have more confidence in specialist doctors' recommendations (assuming they specialize in the type of injury Norris sustained) than those of GPs. Too bad we do not have more info.

 

[jbeck5]

Does it feel like he's witholding information to anyone else?

 

[JD1]

It’s reevaluate in January to see where he is. He won’t be ready in January.

That's not what the quote says. Rehab til January then reevaluate. It might be that the January assessment is "good to go"

 

[jbeck5]

It’s reevaluate in January to see where he is. He won’t be ready in January.

It makes me wonder what the actual injury was if it's going to take 2 months just to get the swelling down and strength up to be able to evaluate it to then get a timeline.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That's not what the quote says. Rehab til January then reevaluate. It might be that the January assessment is "good to go"

I’m pretty sure DJ or PD on 1200 today said, he won’t be ready in January, at re-evaluation, as CJ said after interview, ok if all goes well could be back by trade deadline.

Does it feel like he's witholding information to anyone else?

Probably, you don’t usually get all the details.

 

[JD1]

I’m pretty sure DJ or PD on 1200 today said, he won’t be ready in January, at re-evaluation, as CJ said after interview, ok if all goes well could be back by trade deadline.


Probably, you don’t usually get all the details.

Fingers crossed rehab goes well

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Does it feel like he's witholding information to anyone else?

Yeah, that’s pretty dodgy answers to what should be straightforward questions.

 

[Alfie11]

I'm good with rehab or surgery - but I'm more concerned with long term benefit than making it back this year. I hope Josh isn't trying to rush back for the team, his teammates, feeling he has to live up to the big contract etc.

 

[Xspyrit]

Two reasons .. 1. if he's here he is going to play hard. 2. He makes us better
Pretty big upgrade on Joseph on the 3rd line imo.

I am sure Brown knows what happened with the Paul negotiation more than we do and he very likely wanted Paul to stay. Not sure if that made Brown think twice about "wanting to stay".
Brown is a good player and would help put the Sens in at least a slightly better position to compete for a playoff spot.

Exactly. Even if he wanted to test free agency, the guy never would have taken a shift off. It's in his nature

Flames would probably pony up a good offer for him this season too.

I would have gladly overpaid for Nick Paul. I know his term is far from ideal but our "team defense" need him like I need a coffee in the morning

5 Doctors? Damn I have a hard time seeing one

I argued to re-sign Paul & keep C. Brown while most argued against it because they were going to be too expensive & Joseph some said was just as good if not better. Seems they were wrong again, while I still think it was a big mistake to lose Paul, Brown was a different issue. He publicly announced he would seek free agency & I doubt any team would want to keep a guy on the roster who didn't want to be here & potentially being a distraction.

They want players who want to be here long term & signed a number of their young players to long contracts. I liked Brown & wanted to keep him, but certainly understand he wanted to move on & they did the right thing for him & the team. They also replaced his numbers with the addition of Giroux & DeBrincat & if they can get this guy scoring again we would quickly forget about Brown. Losing Paul was the bigger mistake given the problems they have had losing centres & Paul can play both LW & centre & Paul has had his detractors on here too.

And you were right. A 3rd line today is a lot more important than people think. A matchup line who can shut down the top dogs from the other teams while providing some offensive support is INVALUABLE

Connor Brown had the 2nd most points among all Sens forwards during the 3 seasons he was here. 89 EVP + 11 SHP = 100 points NOT on the PP in 191 GP, that is an average of 43 non-PP per 82 games, extremely valuable

According to Benjiv, the discord between Brown and management came when they chose to not sign Nick Paul, his linemate and a guy he had incredible chemistry with.

Since Formenton might have sabotaged his own life/career, we could have really both Paul and Brown instead of Motte and Joseph. They're ok but a Paul-Pinto-Brown line would have been amazing and an ADVANTAGE over other teams. Now can you say that Motte-Pinto-Joseph does? It's average per NHL standards at best.

Let's not forget that the goal is to be better than others, not just "surviving" out there

 

[aragorn]

Exactly. Even if he wanted to test free agency, the guy never would have taken a shift off. It's in his nature

Flames would probably pony up a good offer for him this season too.

I would have gladly overpaid for Nick Paul. I know his term is far from ideal but our "team defense" need him like I need a coffee in the morning



5 Doctors? Damn I have a hard time seeing one



And you were right. A 3rd line today is a lot more important than people think. A matchup line who can shut down the top dogs from the other teams while providing some offensive support is INVALUABLE

Connor Brown had the 2nd most points among all Sens forwards during the 3 seasons he was here. 89 EVP + 11 SHP = 100 points NOT on the PP in 191 GP, that is an average of 43 non-PP per 82 games, extremely valuable

According to Benjiv, the discord between Brown and management came when they chose to not sign Nick Paul, his linemate and a guy he had incredible chemistry with.

Since Formenton might have sabotaged his own life/career, we could have really both Paul and Brown instead of Motte and Joseph. They're ok but a Paul-Pinto-Brown line would have been amazing and an ADVANTAGE over other teams. Now can you say that Motte-Pinto-Joseph does? It's average per NHL standards at best.

Let's not forget that the goal is to be better than others, not just "surviving" out there

I think most would take a Paul - Pinto - Brown line over Motte - Pinto - Joseph, I would without question. You are right as well, I have a hard time seeing one doctor too let alone 5.

 

[Micklebot]

I think most would take a Paul - Pinto - Brown line over Motte - Pinto - Joseph, I would without question. You are right as well, I have a hard time seeing one doctor too let alone 5.

I like what Joseph brings, it's a very different element than Paul, but he's also two years younger and a bit cheaper. I'm ok with that swap even if Paul might be a bit better The difference between Motte and Brown though is pretty substantial.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Since Formenton might have sabotaged his own life/career, we could have really both Paul and Brown instead of Motte and Joseph. They're ok but a Paul-Pinto-Brown line would have been amazing and an ADVANTAGE over other teams. Now can you say that Motte-Pinto-Joseph does? It's average per NHL standards at best.

If you assume that Paul would have signed a similar contract here as he did in Tampa (he's making $4.15M this year in real dollars), a Paul - Pinto - Brown line would have cost $9M. The Motte - Pinto - Joseph line costs $4.775M.

The more expensive line would have likely meant we couldn't have acquired one of Giroux or DeBrincat.

So while the 3rd line would have been above average, the 2nd line would take a big hit.

I think the decision to move on from Brown was fine. Same with Paul. The third line we have was solid, even without them.

The problem is that the Norris injury has created a gaping hole in the top 6, since Pinto isn't ready for that role and Brassard isn't a solution.

Hopefully we can acquire a stopgap at some point if we don't completely fall out of the race.

Sokolov also seems to be playing well in Belleville. Maybe eventually he comes up and Motte slides down to line 4, and we fire Kelly into the sun. If he puts his mind to it, Sokolov can become Nick Paul with better finish.

 

[Xspyrit]

If you assume that Paul would have signed a similar contract here as he did in Tampa (he's making $4.15M this year in real dollars), a Paul - Pinto - Brown line would have cost $9M. The Motte - Pinto - Joseph line costs $4.775M.

The more expensive line would have likely meant we couldn't have acquired one of Giroux or DeBrincat.

So while the 3rd line would have been above average, the 2nd line would take a big hit.

I think the decision to move on from Brown was fine. Same with Paul. The third line we have was solid, even without them.

The problem is that the Norris injury has created a gaping hole in the top 6, since Pinto isn't ready for that role and Brassard isn't a solution.

Hopefully we can acquire a stopgap at some point if we don't completely fall out of the race.

Sokolov also seems to be playing well in Belleville. Maybe eventually he comes up and Motte slides down to line 4, and we fire Kelly into the sun. If he puts his mind to it, Sokolov can become Nick Paul with better finish.

DeBrincat is making 9 M$ in salary this year, he might not be the difference maker they expected and Tim Stutzle is no Patrick Kane (even though he'll also be very good). And well, I thought DeBrincat was specifically targeted to play with Stu but they have played less than 15% at ES together

Maybe the right play would have been to invest the assets and AAV/$$$ in a RHD

So let's say that Paul would make the same salary this year (contract could have been constructed differently). I'll add Gambrell because he was not needed as we only needed to carry 13 forwards (or it could have been him instead of Brassard) :

We have :

DeBrincat : $9,000,000
Joseph : $2,500,000
Motte : $1,350,000
Hamonic : $3,250,000
Gambrell : $950,000

Total : $17,050,000

We could have had :

Paul : $4,150,000
Brown : $4,000,000

Total : $8,150,000

Which leaves $8,900,000 for a RHD and a Winger. The guy I really would have liked is Oliver Bjorkstrand, so underrated. For a RHD I don't know, it is much more complicated than any other position. I read that we tried to go after Burns who only makes $3,000,000 this season but if you account for retention, he's basically free this season lol

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Bjorkstrand - Stutzle - Giroux
Paul - Pinto - Brown
Crookshank - Kastelic - Watson
Kelly

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Burns
Brannstrom - Holden
Zaitsev

Just an awesome lineup. I'm not saying it was easy to pull



But agreed that our forward group would likely still be very fine without the Norris injury. Plus once Greig and Crookshank make the team, it will become even more competitive.

Note : I don't know about Sokolov, great guy but his first 2-3 steps will limit him to a 4th line role maximum IMO. I could be wrong but I unfortunately can't see more because of his limited "explosiveness". Maybe he keeps improving every year like Paul did to eventually make it, who knows.

 

[DJB]

I’m pretty sure DJ or PD on 1200 today said, he won’t be ready in January, at re-evaluation, as CJ said after interview, ok if all goes well could be back by trade deadline.


Probably, you don’t usually get all the details.

At that point we will be out of the playoffs unless something changes and may as well shut him down unfortunately