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Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

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BonHoonLayneCornell said:



Feels like they have to move on without including him in plans for the roster at this point. Even if he does come back, how long until it goes again.

Those buyout terms looked pretty enticing, but can't do that if he's hurt.
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Yeah, I like Norris a lot but I doubt he’ll ever get back to form if he re-injured his shoulder. If it’s not his shoulder then I’m not overly concerned, but if it is who knows if he can even play next year.

Maybe we can follow the Tampa/Vegas model and just remove him from LTIR next year during the playoffs ha.
 
PlayOn said:
Yeah, I like Norris a lot but I doubt he’ll ever get back to form if he re-injured his shoulder. If it’s not his shoulder then I’m not overly concerned, but if it is who knows if he can even play next year.

Maybe we can follow the Tampa/Vegas model and just remove him from LTIR next year during the playoffs ha.
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Around here, that is called pulling a Clarke MacArthur.
 
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PlayOn said:
Yeah, I like Norris a lot but I doubt he’ll ever get back to form if he re-injured his shoulder. If it’s not his shoulder then I’m not overly concerned, but if it is who knows if he can even play next year.

Maybe we can follow the Tampa/Vegas model and just remove him from LTIR next year during the playoffs ha.
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Took him half a season to sloooooowly get back on track
Wouldn't be of any use in the PO
 
frightenedinmatenum2 said:
The ramifications of this might be that Parker Kelly has to get yelled at in an arbitration hearing. The 4D chess move is to go to arbitration with the most inconsequential player who has the lowest possible earning ceiling. That way, they get another buyout period late in the offseason that might be late enough for Norris to be cleared if this is not his shoulder.

If it is his shoulder again, zero chance he is cleared for a buyout. If it is something like a broken collar bone, and the Senators can qualify for the second buyout window near the end of July, he might be considered cleared by then. That would be about 20-21 weeks from now.
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PlayOn said:
Yeah, I like Norris a lot but I doubt he’ll ever get back to form if he re-injured his shoulder. If it’s not his shoulder then I’m not overly concerned, but if it is who knows if he can even play next year.

Maybe we can follow the Tampa/Vegas model and just remove him from LTIR next year during the playoffs ha.
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I'm on board, if it's an option. The risk isn't worth it imo.
 
Alex1234 said:
Took him half a season to sloooooowly get back on track
Wouldn't be of any use in the PO
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I said it mostly in jest. Honestly I don’t know what another shoulder injury would mean for him and I just hope it’s not career-ending for his sake. It’s really sad. I think a lot of his issues this season are due to lack of strength which in turn shook his confidence, but it’s hard to imagine a world where that improves if he needs surgery again.
 
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PlayOn said:
I said it mostly in jest. Honestly I don’t know what another shoulder injury would mean for him and I just hope it’s not career-ending for his sake. It’s really sad. I think a lot of his issues this season are due to lack of strength which in turn shook his confidence, but it’s hard to imagine a world where that improves if he needs surgery again.
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It seems like the absolute best case scenario, assuming this injury is what it appears to be, is that he misses all of next year, comes back the next year playing poorly due to lack of confidence and no game time, then maybe the year after that he gets back to playing like a 60-75 point guy. For $8 million. And that's best case scenario.

Hate to say it, but it seems like they should cut their losses if they plan on spending anywhere near the salary cap in the next few years.

Still a chance Norris could be a useful NHL player again, eventually, but doesn't seem like it makes sense to keep him here in Ottawa if you can buy him out or LTIR him.
 
lancepitlick said:
It seems like the absolute best case scenario, assuming this injury is what it appears to be, is that he misses all of next year, comes back the next year playing poorly due to lack of confidence and no game time, then maybe the year after that he gets back to playing like a 60-75 point guy. For $8 million. And that's best case scenario.

Hate to say it, but it seems like they should cut their losses if they plan on spending anywhere near the salary cap in the next few years.

Still a chance Norris could be a useful NHL player again, eventually, but doesn't seem like it makes sense to keep him here in Ottawa if you can buy him out or LTIR him.
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Yeah I think that’s a fair assessment but we wouldn’t be able to buy him out anyway if his shoulder is injured. And for the reasons you mentioned, I don’t think teams are gonna trade for him.

You essentially would just have to hope when he comes back he can contribute in some capacity and slowly get better. It is what it is at this point.
 
frightenedinmatenum2 said:
The ramifications of this might be that Parker Kelly has to get yelled at in an arbitration hearing. The 4D chess move is to go to arbitration with the most inconsequential player who has the lowest possible earning ceiling. That way, they get another buyout period late in the offseason that might be late enough for Norris to be cleared if this is not his shoulder.

If it is his shoulder again, zero chance he is cleared for a buyout. If it is something like a broken collar bone, and the Senators can qualify for the second buyout window near the end of July, he might be considered cleared by then. That would be about 20-21 weeks from now.
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On top of buying out Korpisalo we're going to be buying out Norris?

Opening up a crap ton of cap space in a weak UFA year when we're trying to get to the playoffs doesn't make a ton of sense.

We're already going to have a hard time spending our existing cap space if we trade Chychrun and Tarasenko, add another 12M in cap space would be a waste.

Not to mention buying out Norris would almost certainly piss Brady off and could lead to an actual demand to leave Ottawa, not just rumours/speculation.
 
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Hale The Villain said:
On top of buying out Korpisalo we're going to be buying out Norris?

Opening up a crap ton of cap space in a weak UFA year when we're trying to get to the playoffs doesn't make a ton of sense.

We're already going to have a hard time spending our existing cap space if we trade Chychrun and Tarasenko, add another 12M in cap space would be a waste.

Not to mention buying out Norris would almost certainly piss Brady off and could lead to an actual demand to leave Ottawa, not just rumours/speculation.
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Norris may be a sunk cost of damaged goods though, so it's not like its without merit.
 
Hale The Villain said:
On top of buying out Korpisalo we're going to be buying out Norris?

Opening up a crap ton of cap space in a weak UFA year when we're trying to get to the playoffs doesn't make a ton of sense.

We're already going to have a hard time spending our existing cap space if we trade Chychrun and Tarasenko, add another 12M in cap space would be a waste.

Not to mention buying out Norris would almost certainly piss Brady off and could lead to an actual demand to leave Ottawa, not just rumours/speculation.
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Sunk cost fallacy.

A buyout is very very cheap for Norris and basically gets his cap hit almost entirely off the books for the next 4 seasons at the expense of having approx 1.5M in dead cap per season for 8 years after that.

Buying out Korpisalo makes no sense because the cap savings are almost exactly the same over the lifetime of the buyout as the savings from burying him for 4 seasons. This is a concrete fact and not just my opinion. There are almost no real savings in application because 1/3rd of his cap hit is almost the same as 1.15Mx4 years.

Korpisalo buyout only makes sense as a mechanism to balance the cap of the Senators are very tight to the ceiling since it spreads the dead cap over 8 years instead of 4.

The Norris buyout would qualify for the more generous u26 buyout formula. The Senators also get credit for the cap the overused on his seasons played in Ottawa where his salary was lower than his cap. While I'm not saying I would have pulled the trigger on a buyout prior to the injury, I would understand if they did it this summer.

The Tkachuk point is a fair one but at some point they have to go against his wishes. It's one thing to make him feel heard and respected, it's another thing to make him the GM. He didn't want DJ fired either.
 
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I won't lie, those buyout numbers (if they do it this summer) do look tempting, but it's a tricky situation. He still has to be healthy when they do it and if he's healthy that's still a piece that helps us.
 
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Hale The Villain said:
On top of buying out Korpisalo we're going to be buying out Norris?

Opening up a crap ton of cap space in a weak UFA year when we're trying to get to the playoffs doesn't make a ton of sense.

We're already going to have a hard time spending our existing cap space if we trade Chychrun and Tarasenko, add another 12M in cap space would be a waste.

Not to mention buying out Norris would almost certainly piss Brady off and could lead to an actual demand to leave Ottawa, not just rumours/speculation.
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Maybe Staios stay the POHO and Brady is promoted GM if he is going to decide of the roster
 
JM was asked weeks , months or too early to tell.. He answered too early to tell.

I think its a good bet he'll go on LTIR. I am hopeful its something less severe than another similar shoulder injury that's required him to have surgeries and lengthy rehabs. We'll find out soon enough how bad it is.
 
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Sens of Anarchy said:
JM was asked weeks , months or too early to tell.. He answered too early to tell.

I think its a good bet he'll go on LTIR. I am hopeful its something less severe than another similar shoulder injury that's required him to have surgeries and lengthy rehabs. We'll find out soon enough how bad it is.
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Likely the last we see of Josh this year either way.
 
Gil Gunderson said:
I won't like, those buyout numbers (if they do it this summer) do look tempting, but it's a tricky situation. He still has to be healthy when they do it and if he's healthy that's still a piece that helps us.
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I'll say it is tricky. The day we buy out Norris there will be a lineup of teams out the door looking to sign him for cheap. He could end up with a divisional rival who gets him on a very cap friendly contract, and he ends up sticking it up our @$$ four times a year...
 
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Larionov said:
I'll say it is tricky. The day we buy out Norris there will be a lineup of teams out the door looking to sign him for cheap. He could end up with a divisional rival who gets him on a very cap friendly contract, and he ends up sticking it up our @$$ four times a year...
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Could easily see him going to Detroit and burning us.
 
Garrioch insinuating it’s Norris’ shoulder here, unfortunately. Let’s just hope he doesn’t need surgery.

While Martin didn’t confirm that Norris re-injured the left shoulder he has had surgically repaired twice, we’re led to believe that’s likely the case after he left the club’s 4-1 loss to the Nashville Predators on Tuesday after knocked into the net on a hit by Cole Smith in the second period.

Norris was undergoing further tests before a decision is made on whether he’ll need surgery or rehab to fix the ailment, but at this point it would be surprising if suited up again this season.
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ottawasun.com

The Ottawa Senators won't have centre Josh Norris back anytime soon

Josh Norris won't be back with the Ottawa Senators any time soon and it's possible we've seen the last of him this season.
ottawasun.com ottawasun.com
 
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