Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[armani]

Yes... let's trade Norris and steutzle. Josh lost his hands and Tim doesn't know how to play defense. Get out from these contracts while we still can. Yes, josh was our best two way forward a short time ago and yes, Tim can skate fast and make plays out of nothing but with an NHL level coach, with NHL level expectations on both sides of the puck, these two fail. Get a pick for them and move on. After all, we have Pinto who's shown he's a first line center for 10 games and greig has been healthy for 10 games in a row. I've seen enough.

I love sarcastic takes like this!

He's at a 25 goal 50 point pace after missing almost a full season.

He's been getting more engaged physically in the past few weeks.

Stay patient with him, he's doing fine under the circumstances.

Yes Josh Norris (and Stutzle) haven't had the type of season they are capable of, in Norris' case he is coming back from a significant injury and is missing his blast that got him 30+ goals. Hopefully he keeps getting better as the season ends, he will likely will have to get a lot stronger during the off-season. He was similar sized when he got injured, but seems to be more easily knocked out of the puck these days. It's a healing thing, this guy will hit his stride when he is fully healthy and shooting.

 

[BrawlFan]

He will have a better year next year. Everyone knows he’s a winger moving forward.

Chucky-Stu-G
Norris-Pinto-Bath
Joseph-Greig-
Kelly-

The fourth line can be filled with appropriate AHLers or should be rather.

The third line RW spot is left open for a prospect. Let boucher/Jarventie/or whomever try. Worst case you trade for a young player and pay a price like Konecny.

 

[Cosmix]

He will have a better year next year. Everyone knows he’s a winger moving forward.

Chucky-Stu-G
Norris-Pinto-Bath
Joseph-Greig-
Kelly-

The fourth line can be filled with appropriate AHLers or should be rather.

The third line RW spot is left open for a prospect. Let boucher/Jarventie/or whomever try. Worst case you trade for a young player and pay a price like Konecny.

That 3rd line RW spot could be filled by Tarasenko at $5M-$6M AAV for several years. He would be a good veteran player on the roster; are you listening Mr. Staios?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

At some point you need to look at the extra mil or two on his contract as the cost of keeping Brady happy. It's whatever.

 

[bicboi64]

At some point you need to look at the extra mil or two on his contract as the cost of keeping Brady happy. It's whatever.

For me that's a red flag. If there's a hockey trade to be made and it means Norris is cut out, idgaf what any other player on the roster thinks. It's one thing if Tkachuk is a bit down because his friend isn't there, but if we need to have Norris on the roster to make our captain comfortable, trade both of em now because that's some peewee shit.

 

[Hale The Villain]

At some point you need to look at the extra mil or two on his contract as the cost of keeping Brady happy. It's whatever.

I would have thought giving Brady 8.2M and the captaincy after failing to eclipse 50 points was enough to make him happy.

 

[thinkwild]

At some point you need to look at the extra mil or two on his contract as the cost of keeping Brady happy. It's whatever.

Was there a story about this im missing? This seems pretty doubtful. Why would the team overpay Norris to keep Brady happy? Its more likely to me they thought like with Colin White this was gambling it would be a deal in the long run, and it still could be. Brady would have been just as happy had they bridged him.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Its a little interesting that .. when we look at the rebuild and the "progression" most everyone thought we were in really good shape with our top 2Cs. There were even some that debated Norris over Stutzle for the #1. Most saw these 2 as important core pieces and many still do. Norris is 43 games into a season coming off a series of shoulder injuries that forced him to miss most of last season and some of the previous season. His performance this year has many of us wanting more out of him. His big shot on the PP was not producing as it did pre 2022/23 (he has been moved recently) and his compete level is generally lower than some would want to see. It comes and goes and it effects him and his line mates. There is debate on how much of this is a result of coming back from injury, how much is physical and how much is mental.

Stutzle has struggled this season partially playing hurt for some time and partially adapting to the greater emphasis on play without the puck, defending and unnecessary giveaway reduction. We now have our top 2Cs struggling and we wonder how much is physical and how much is mental. Going forward how big a concern is there that the top 2C positions may not be as solidly entrenched as we once thought.

C depth

The emergence of Greig playing at a high level for the most part in his rookie season. He has some games where he really stands out and some where he isn't as effective. Overall he has been very good. He plays the game the right way and his effort can't be questioned. He has shown he can play C effectively and can add top 9 depth on the wing. The way Greig approaches the game playing at 3C is not an issue, jumping up in to fill in at top 6 LW or C is not an issue.

Pinto coming back has been mostly very good. He plays a mature game , defends really well and contributes offensively. His IQ and effort level is high. If we look at the game JM is preaching ; Pinto fits the bill in almost every way. Pinto has missed a fair bit of hockey over the past 3 seasons. He missed a lot of time in 2021/22 ; played a full 82 in 2022/23 and 41 games in 2023/24. Is he a dream 3C or does he have average NHL 2C upside. Personally I think right now 3C is the place for him to continue his upward development .. If we see his best game more and more at 3C .. we definitely have a 2C replacement if we don't see a good bounce back from Norris.

Pinto will get paid on his extension be it a bridge or long term. Some pointed blame on Pinto for the lack of performance of the 2nd line in the DeBrincat year (22/23) to the point where his rookie season was debased to valuing him at very modest estimations on an extension in the off season.

We all want Stutzle to make the adjustments and get back to being dangerous mostly vs the other team (lol) almost every shift; Is he really a NHL 1C.. if that NHL C is going up against top lines and is asked to be a + contributor defensively?
Will Norris have a bounce back... is there really a bounce back or is this very close to what you see is what you get?

The picture of our Centers and how they slot and how solid the Sens are at those positions isn't quite as crystal clear as it may once have been.

 

[Icelevel]

1 Pinto
2 Stutzle
3 Greig
4 Norris @ 8mil doesn’t fit

Move him to right wing (assuming he can still shoot. Not sure why he doesn’t play that side on the pp anymore. Must be an issue?)
Or trade him.
Or trust he can have a monster off-season and get back to top 6 level.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Grieg can play wing, bridging Pinto will allow him to play 3C.
If Norris plays back to his level that's as deep of a center core as any.
Gives us X amount of years to compete for the Cup.
X being the number of years on a Pinto bridge (2-3) seasons.
After that yes, one of them will have to be moved.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

Its a little interesting that .. when we look at the rebuild and the "progression" most everyone thought we were in really good shape with our top 2Cs. There were even some that debated Norris over Stutzle for the #1. Most saw these 2 as important core pieces and many still do. Norris is 43 games into a season coming off a series of shoulder injuries that forced him to miss most of last season and some of the previous season. His performance this year has many of us wanting more out of him. His big shot on the PP was not producing as it did pre 2022/23 (he has been moved recently) and his compete level is generally lower than some would want to see. It comes and goes and it effects him and his line mates. There is debate on how much of this is a result of coming back from injury, how much is physical and how much is mental.

Stutzle has struggled this season partially playing hurt for some time and partially adapting to the greater emphasis on play without the puck, defending and unnecessary giveaway reduction. We now have our top 2Cs struggling and we wonder how much is physical and how much is mental. Going forward how big a concern is there that the top 2C positions may not be as solidly entrenched as we once thought.

C depth

The emergence of Greig playing at a high level for the most part in his rookie season. He has some games where he really stands out and some where he isn't as effective. Overall he has been very good. He plays the game the right way and his effort can't be questioned. He has shown he can play C effectively and can add top 9 depth on the wing. The way Greig approaches the game playing at 3C is not an issue, jumping up in to fill in at top 6 LW or C is not an issue.

Pinto coming back has been mostly very good. He plays a mature game , defends really well and contributes offensively. His IQ and effort level is high. If we look at the game JM is preaching ; Pinto fits the bill in almost every way. Pinto has missed a fair bit of hockey over the past 3 seasons. He missed a lot of time in 2021/22 ; played a full 82 in 2022/23 and 41 games in 2023/24. Is he a dream 3C or does he have average NHL 2C upside. Personally I think right now 3C is the place for him to continue his upward development .. If we see his best game more and more at 3C .. we definitely have a 2C replacement if we don't see a good bounce back from Norris.

Pinto will get paid on his extension be it a bridge or long term. Some pointed blame on Pinto for the lack of performance of the 2nd line in the DeBrincat year (22/23) to the point where his rookie season was debased to valuing him at very modest estimations on an extension in the off season.

We all want Stutzle to make the adjustments and get back to being dangerous mostly vs the other team (lol) almost every shift; Is he really a NHL 1C.. if that NHL C is going up against top lines and is asked to be a + contributor defensively?
Will Norris have a bounce back... is there really a bounce back or is this very close to what you see is what you get?

The picture of our Centers and how they slot and how solid the Sens are at those positions isn't quite as crystal clear as it may once have been.

I would agree 100% that Pinto fits the mold of Jacques Martin hockey, which is playing a responsible 2-way game and reaping the benefits of being accountable in your own zone.
Pinto is a natural Centre and does have the skill and ability to be in the top six.

Stutzle is struggling right now to find his way in this type of system. You can almost see him thinking his way out there in terms of where he needs to be at any given moment, especially on the defensive side.

As some have mentioned, Norris seems to better suited to be on the Wing and then you have Giroux who takes more face-offs than any other player on the team.

Grieg seems like an ideal third-line Centre, who could also find himself playing on the wing in the top 6.

All of this to say that things seem pretty fluid as it relates to the C position for the Sens right now but I think that they should try something like this going forward (assumes Tarasenko stays):

Tkachuk Stutzle Giroux
Norris Pinto Batherson
Joseph Greig Tarasenko

Still a lot of strength down the middle, with plenty of support for the C position on the top 2 lines.
3 solid lines, all with proven chemistry on each line.

 

[bert]

There's up years and down years. Norris is having a down year (understandable considering his injury). But the thing I like about Norris is that even when he's not putting up points, he's still contributing. He's the opposite of a floater. He's a hard worker; fast, physical, good on the faceoff and good defensively.

Is he overpaid? Yes.. but he's still a valuable asset. And hopefully he puts together a good year next season and gets back to 30 goals.

This simply isn't true unfortunately. He's soft as hell now. This was the scouting report on him in 2021. He does not compete, he does not win one on one battles he bails on finishing his checks. He's a liability everywhere on the ice.

Grieg can play wing, bridging Pinto will allow him to play 3C.
If Norris plays back to his level that's as deep of a center core as any.
Gives us X amount of years to compete for the Cup.
X being the number of years on a Pinto bridge (2-3) seasons.
After that yes, one of them will have to be moved.

Norris should be moved to the wing and Greig should be playing center. It's so obvious. Norris can't hang on to or distribute pucks. He never has. I find it very strange this hasn't happened yet. Greig is also way less effective as a winger.

 

[SweSensFan]

I would agree 100% that Pinto fits the mold of Jacques Martin hockey, which is playing a responsible 2-way game and reaping the benefits of being accountable in your own zone.
Pinto is a natural Centre and does have the skill and ability to be in the top six.

Stutzle is struggling right now to find his way in this type of system. You can almost see him thinking his way out there in terms of where he needs to be at any given moment, especially on the defensive side.

As some have mentioned, Norris seems to better suited to be on the Wing and then you have Giroux who takes more face-offs than any other player on the team.

Grieg seems like an ideal third-line Centre, who could also find himself playing on the wing in the top 6.

All of this to say that things seem pretty fluid as it relates to the C position for the Sens right now but I think that they should try something like this going forward (assumes Tarasenko stays):

Tkachuk Stutzle Giroux
Norris Pinto Batherson
Joseph Greig Tarasenko

Still a lot of strength down the middle, with plenty of support for the C position on the top 2 lines.
3 solid lines, all with proven chemistry on each line.

Like it if we get a solid return. A solid starter in net or a good top 4 rd with size and some grit preferably! We could throw in a pick but not this years first rd..

 

[bicboi64]

Nashville doen't have good C depth, send Norris there for Fabbro and Nyquist.

 

[Icelevel]

Nashville doen't have good C depth, send Norris there for Fabbro and Nyquist.

Norris isn’t a center.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don’t want to give up any center depth. I’ve waited legit 30 years for it. So I will wait for him

 

[Tuna99]

I don’t want to give up any center depth. I’ve waited legit 30 years for it. So I will wait for him

This.

Norris is the player we get mad at now, there’s always one in the doghouse.

For me put him back in his PP spot, let him score. He’s lost confidence in his shot - kinda like Bobby Ryan after his injury and his shot never came back. Let’s see if Norris just needs a boost of confidence or his shoulder injury is a real long term hindrance to his game

 

[Dan Patrick]

Needs an offseason to actually train and get his confidence back. I’m of two minds, I think he can get back to his previous play that earned him a big contract and I think he is the #1 trade piece to improve the teams bigger positions of need or even just restock the prospect cupboards and keep the team rolling with young cheap talented players.

 

[BrawlFan]

Such a sens move to trade him at his lowest. Just move him to the wing. Let him get back mentally. He didn’t score 35 EN goals. Guys got a great shot. If he used it more he’d be good.

Plus he falls down a lot.

 

[Icelevel]

Such a sens move to trade him at his lowest. Just move him to the wing. Let him get back mentally. He didn’t score 35 EN goals. Guys got a great shot. If he used it more he’d be good.

Plus he falls down a lot.

He’s not shooting for a reason. Especially avoids his off side money shot. Shoulder? It’s something.

 

[Tuna99]

First + game for all of Feb for Norris.

Be nice to see him finish the season in the + category. Is currently -7

 

[Ice-Tray]

Excellent game, probably a good idea to be a bit more patient with him.

 

[coladin]

This simply isn't true unfortunately. He's soft as hell now. This was the scouting report on him in 2021. He does not compete, he does not win one on one battles he bails on finishing his checks. He's a liability everywhere on the ice.


Norris should be moved to the wing and Greig should be playing center. It's so obvious. Norris can't hang on to or distribute pucks. He never has. I find it very strange this hasn't happened yet. Greig is also way less effective as a winger .

It really isn’t obvious. The guy missed the last two months of 21-22. Trained and lasted 7 games, off three or four months. Played three more. Shutting down until August 23. Setbacks. And you expect him to pick up where he left off as the team’s best center , and most responsible center with good defensive metrics, after that track record of injury?

Yeah , not obvious at all, Bert. The fact that he has 15 or whatever goals without his one timer , tells me he will regain his true form. Give the guy a break

 

[JD1]

It really isn’t obvious. The guy missed the last two months of 21-22. Trained and lasted 7 games, off three or four months. Played three more. Shutting down until August 23. Setbacks. And you expect him to pick up where he left off as the team’s best center , and most responsible center with good defensive metrics, after that track record of injury?

Yeah , not obvious at all, Bert. The fact that he has 15 or whatever goals without his one timer , tells me he will regain his true form. Give the guy a break

Norris. All we heard on the board thru camp was the Norris situation was an example of the team's incompetence. After the fact it looks more like he just wasn't ready to go.

Rehab off major surgery is a drag. I think Norris gets the summer to train, comes to camp next fall stronger, and has a much better season

In a down year coming off major surgery he's still going to score 25 and post 50 points. With salary inflation I don't think his contract is a huge issue

 

[coladin]

Norris. All we heard on the board thru camp was the Norris situation was an example of the team's incompetence. After the fact it looks more like he just wasn't ready to go.

Rehab off major surgery is a drag. I think Norris gets the summer to train, comes to camp next fall stronger, and has a much better season

In a down year coming off major surgery he's still going to score 25 and post 50 points. With salary inflation I don't think his contract is a huge issue

Right? And the reason why Pinto is looking better is due to the depth in the middle. Greig is a great player, and may very well push his way to the middle, but not quite yet