Proposal: Jordan Staal to the Blues

[SirPaste]

If we are trading for a center we need to get an offensive guy to play with Tarasenko, no interest in Staal for me although he is a good player

 

[westc2]

Backes >>> J. Staal

The Blues let Backes walk for a similar contract.

Why do people seem to think Backes was our #1 center last year and that his leaving has left a huge hole for the Blues? That was 2 years ago.

Last season Backes mostly played 2nd/3rd line right wing when the lineup was healthy.

 

[NotOpie]

For sake of discussion, lets say Armstrong is interested, what would Carolina want?

Matt Duchene

Change J.Staal for Sebastian Aho and lets talk about trade.

You.Don't.Have.The.Assets.

Backes >>> J. Staal

The Blues let Backes walk for a similar contract.

Why do people seem to think Backes was our #1 center last year and that his leaving has left a huge hole for the Blues? That was 2 years ago.

Last season Backes mostly played 2nd/3rd line right wing when the lineup was healthy.

Conversely, the Canes trading Jordan Staal does leave a huge hole for us. Last season he was essentially the center of our 2a line (we run something more akin to 3 second lines and a 4th line). They were focused on possession and shutting down the opposing teams' best lines. Jordan Staal's like excelled at both. We don't have anybody who could fill that necessary role on the roster. There's not trade to be had here.

 

[go comets]

Really do not think the canes want to trade their most experienced center when the team is turning the corner to respectability. This team is very young and need players like Staal to lead.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

With all the NTC talk above, made me think of this and I dont know the answer.

If a player waives his NTC (for instance staal if he went to stl), would his contract still have a NTC once with STL? I was under the impression that the NTC was just to stay with the first team.

There's nothing in the CBA that says if a player waives his NTC once, that it isn't still valid after the trade, so I think it's still in effect. The only thing the CBA says, is that IF a player is traded BEFORE his NTC goes into effect, then the team that receives the player is not obligated to honor that NTC. I have no insight to what the players contract says about it though so it could say something different there, but the CBA doesn't say it's null and void after he waives once.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

At 6 mil for the next infinity years I'd work around something like:

Staal and Carolina's 1st

for

Lehtera and the Blues 7th in 2018.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

At 6 mil for the next infinity years I'd work around something like:

Staal and Carolina's 1st

for

Lehtera and the Blues 7th in 2018.

Yeah, no.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

At 6 mil for the next infinity years I'd work around something like:

Staal and Carolina's 1st

for

Lehtera and the Blues 7th in 2018.

Oh that is so funny. Do you write your own material?

 

[ghdi]

Let's just say that Jordan is worth more to Carolina than what most fans believe he's worth in a trade.

Yep, this is a good point.

Staal is Carolina's Zajac. While the rest of the league may not value each of these players very highly in respect to things like trade offers, or they may be comparatively overpaid, what they bring to each team they play for is not just measured in points. Zajac is worth more to the Devils than he would be to the rest of the league, just as Staal is to Carolina.

 

[robbieberns]

At 6 mil for the next infinity years I'd work around something like:

Staal and Carolina's 1st

for

Lehtera and the Blues 7th in 2018.

Swap those picks and you're onto something.

 

[Roboturner913]

Jordan Staal's 5v5 numbers since he's been in the league:

Year -- PP/60 -- Corsi
07/08 -- 1.07 -- 12.59
08/09 -- 1.81 -- 11.49
09/10 -- 1.93 -- 13.58
10/11 -- 1.68 -- 11.69
11/12 -- 2.16 -- 12.68
12/13 -- 1.62 -- 12.37
13/14 -- 1.19 -- 11.38
14/15 -- 1.12 -- 11.56
15/16 -- 1.29 -- 10.48


Pretty clear that he was at his peak around 12/12 12/13 which is right in line with a lot of research that has been done regarding the peaking of forwards in the NHL lately. Peak comes closer to 24 than it does to 30. Take a look at the majority of the best forwards in the game. They are all at their best around the age of 23-27. Past that and production drops. (Ex: Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, list goes on..)


His Fenwick numbers fall off even worse.

His numbers have been going downhill for a number of years, and I stand by my initial statement.

We all know that those metrics are quite dependent on quality of team and can be misleading because of that. But if you watched him last year, you would have no qualms saying he had the best year of his career so far. There have been years when he had slightly better offensive numbers but that again doesn't tell the whole story, especially when he's the linchpin forward on a defensively-oriented team. My guess is a 48-point Jordan Staal would be roughly equivalent to a 60-point center with a merely average defensive/possession game.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Swap those picks and you're onto something.

Done.

 

[StLHokie]

We all know that those metrics are quite dependent on quality of team and can be misleading because of that. But if you watched him last year, you would have no qualms saying he had the best year of his career so far. There have been years when he had slightly better offensive numbers but that again doesn't tell the whole story, especially when he's the linchpin forward on a defensively-oriented team. My guess is a 48-point Jordan Staal would be roughly equivalent to a 60-point center with a merely average defensive/possession game.

The Blues have a defensively equivalent center that puts up more points in Paul Stastny. They also had that in David Backes, who they allowed to walk this offseason because of the 6m price tag. The Blues have no interest in Staal because he doesn't not bring what the team need, which is elite offensive talent at the center position.

 

[Roboturner913]

The Blues have a defensively equivalent center that puts up more points in Paul Stastny. They also had that in David Backes, who they allowed to walk this offseason because of the 6m price tag. The Blues have no interest in Staal because he doesn't not bring what the team need, which is elite offensive talent at the center position.

Great then, I'm not trying to trade him to you, I don't want to trade him to you. All I'm saying is, your assertion that he is in some sort of decline doesn't pass the sniff test to people who have actually watched him play recently.

 

[NotOpie]

At 6 mil for the next infinity years I'd work around something like:

Staal and Carolina's 1st

for

Lehtera and the Blues 7th in 2018.

When did St. Louis fans trade personas with Edmonton fans....or maybe I'm thinking of Toronto fans. No matter, same diff...

 

[Chojin]

Jordan Staal isn't a bad player, but with that contract, he has negative value to most teams. Carolina is better off just keeping him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

When did St. Louis fans trade personas with Edmonton fans....or maybe I'm thinking of Toronto fans. No matter, same diff...

We just have a few crazy people. That offer is simply idiotic.

 

[WhiteTrashAmerican]

Jordan Staal isn't a bad player, but with that contract, he has negative value to most teams. Carolina is better off just keeping him.

Negative value at market rate(possibly less)? That's just not correct.

 

[sheriff bart]

Jordan Staal isn't a bad player, but with that contract, he has negative value to most teams. Carolina is better off just keeping him.

Is there another Jordan Staal on the Canes that I'm not aware of? The one I know about is compensated about right for his performance.

 

[MissouriMook]

Negative value at market rate(possibly less)? That's just not correct.

I don't personally think his contract is bad. The majority of the objections from Blues fans is that we don't lack center depth. We lack a high end center with the proper level of offensive skill to pair with Tarasenko. If we add a center to our roster, it needs to be a player who is or projects to be better offensively than Stastny. Jordan Staal is a fine player, but he is not better offensively than Stastny.

 

[WhiteTrashAmerican]

I don't personally think his contract is bad. The majority of the objections from Blues fans is that we don't lack center depth. We lack a high end center with the proper level of offensive skill to pair with Tarasenko. If we add a center to our roster, it needs to be a player who is or projects to be better offensively than Stastny. Jordan Staal is a fine player, but he is not better offensively than Stastny.

That is fair, and I agree. I was just saying that Staal at 6 million is pretty much on value for what he is

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm not saying the Blues should want Staal but there is a lot of underrating of him going on here. He's a very good player.

 

[dogbazinho]

There is no reason for the Canes to accept any less than they paid. So top ten pick, 3rd line center, and a young prospect who's become a good middle pairing defender. Too steep a price I imagine.

 

[Shady Machine]

At 6 mil for the next infinity years I'd work around something like:

Staal and Carolina's 1st

for

Lehtera and the Blues 7th in 2018.

This is absurd

 

[Shady Machine]

There is no reason for the Canes to accept any less than they paid. So top ten pick, 3rd line center, and a young prospect who's become a good middle pairing defender. Too steep a price I imagine.

There is a reason from a value perspective and that's 3 years of Jordan's prime years have passed. He's worth less now than he was at 25. That isn't to say Carolina shouldn't ask for those assets, just that they won't get them.